didn't think it possible- hd dxing

[ctkatz]

here i am sitting in louisville, kentucky, nearly 300 miles away, and i am hearing 1100 wtam come in crystal clear. so clear in fact that my hd radio is picking up on wtam's digital signal. it isn't hanging on to it very well, but it is translating that signal for 30 or 40 seconds at a time. it's a clear night here in louisville and i wonder if that has anything to do with that because i can pick up wtam pretty well here anyway. how far along is an hd signal supposed to go anyway?

 

[airwaveobserver]

It goes far enough so that the tens of people listening to HD can pick it up.

HD radio = the biggest failure in radio history.

 

[jackson326]

We could have told you that. What were they thinking of? Try to listen to a digital signal that has been turned upside down by skywave phasing. The decoder just does'nt understand. Some are saying that about 15-20 miles is about as far as you can trust for a 50kw flamethrower. Obviously am digital is a local phenomenon that belongs with the rest of the local garbage in the hf and vhf bands. Those sidebands keep blocking out our favorite night time stations. Does anyone really understand the magic of am ???skywave dx reception? If they want it to sound like wired sound let them listen to internet radio!

jackson326

 

[w9wi]

here i am sitting in louisville, kentucky, nearly 300 miles away, and i am hearing 1100 wtam come in crystal clear. so clear in fact that my hd radio is picking up on wtam's digital signal. it isn't hanging on to it very well, but it is translating that signal for 30 or 40 seconds at a time. it's a clear night here in louisville and i wonder if that has anything to do with that because i can pick up wtam pretty well here anyway. how far along is an hd signal supposed to go anyway?

I don't think there's a good answer to that!

In the long term, once everyone has a HD radio the stations will be able to shut off their analog signals and increase digital power. And at that point the digital coverage is supposed to be the same as the current analog coverage.

Right now, digital power is limited to reduce interference to analog reception, and as a result the normal digital coverage is considerably less than analog.

I have heard WTAM-HD down here in Nashville. My reception was similar to yours - the "text ID" would stay in for several minutes but the digital audio was only there for 30-40 seconds at a time max. WTAM may be the most distant HD station I've received digital audio from - not sure whether Cleveland or Des Moines (WHO 1040) is further away. I've received the "text ID" from WOAI San Antonio, which is considerably more distant.

Your reception is probably considerably more impressive as I'll bet you don't have a 250-foot antenna connected to your HD radio !

 

[YEKIMI]

Try living just south of WTAM'S towers. Their digital hash kills the stations on either side of their frequency. So much for DXing the stations that used to be at 1080-1090/1110-1120.

 

[Tom Wells]

WTAM 1100 is putting a fine hiss on WNWI 1080 Oak Lawn IL at night here in Chicago, it its service area.
I can tune down a bit and the lower sideband is cleaner. Is KYW 1060 running iboc?

dxing HD is somewhat like tuning in a Radio Teletype. It's working, then it's not.

Totally pass/fail.

 

[willcail]

Well that beats out me picking up two Dayton Ohio stations during the day on my non HD digital tuner Radio Shack FM/MW/SW Radio. The one that cost 40 dollars. 790 AM WONE and 1110 AM. I can also pick up the same stations. on my Grundig Mini 300 pocket radio.

 

[SonoSational18]

In the long term, once everyone has a HD radio the stations will be able to shut off their analog signals and increase digital power. And at that point the digital coverage is supposed to be the same as the current analog coverage.

Wonderful in theory, but with even digital FM barely crawling out of the gate after two years, what are the chances that "everyone" will have an HD radio any time soon, let alone one capable of tuning AM. I'm afraid that they will be about as rare (and short-lived) as AM stereo receivers in the 80's and early 90's.

Let's face up to the fact that IBOC AM is a severely flawed technology. If we want to translate our AM stations into digital, I'd suggest one of these two scenarios (or possibly a combination): Simulcast AM stations in digital on the HD-3 channel of an existing FM station. I'd venture to say that a large number of AM's have a sister station that could accomodate them. Stand-alones wanting to go digital could lease the time off of a non-owned FM. Down the road, additional spectrum could be opened. There has been talk about opening up 80-88 mHz (they already have done this in many parts of the world) to FM and make those frequencies available first to those AM's wanting to make the move. (This could be structured similarly to the current rules governing stations moving to AM's "X-band"). The current AM band would remain all-analog until enough listening shifts to the digital versions and the current AM operators figure it isn't moneaarily worth those huge power bills to run those 50kw transmitters and tying up acres of primo real estate for those five tower directional arrays.

 

[Tom Wells]

In the long term, once everyone has a HD radio the stations will be able to shut off their analog signals and increase digital power. And at that point the digital coverage is supposed to be the same as the current analog coverage.

Wonderful in theory, but with even digital FM barely crawling out of the gate after two years, what are the chances that "everyone" will have an HD radio any time soon, let alone one capable of tuning AM. I'm afraid that they will be about as rare (and short-lived) as AM stereo receivers in the 80's and early 90's.

Let's face up to the fact that IBOC AM is a severely flawed technology. If we want to translate our AM stations into digital, I'd suggest one of these two scenarios (or possibly a combination): Simulcast AM stations in digital on the HD-3 channel of an existing FM station. I'd venture to say that a large number of AM's have a sister station that could accomodate them. Stand-alones wanting to go digital could lease the time off of a non-owned FM. Down the road, additional spectrum could be opened. There has been talk about opening up 80-88 mHz (they already have done this in many parts of the world) to FM and make those frequencies available first to those AM's wanting to make the move. (This could be structured similarly to the current rules governing stations moving to AM's "X-band"). The current AM band would remain all-analog until enough listening shifts to the digital versions and the current AM operators figure it isn't moneaarily worth those huge power bills to run those 50kw transmitters and tying up acres of primo real estate for those five tower directional arrays.

Then when the business leaves the "building" vacant, and MW AM is empty of commerce, maybe then
we can turn it over people who would gladly donate time, equipment, music and the electricity.

I'd go up to 100 watts very quickly, and find a way to get an antenna that could begin to radiate.

The notion of wanting to go all digital for radio is anathema to some of us.

It's like suggesting we'd all jump at the chance to do something we are repelled by.
It's like saying "Then, when all paintings can be done on a computer, we can dispense with all those messy oil paints,
pallets, brushes etc."

From my perspective, if you want digital delivery, it should come on a media digital-agile and bandwidth-capable.

1. Fiber optics
2. Coaxial, multipair phoneline svcs of many flavors.
3. Ghz -range data links. ( satellite radio is one of these )

These all work for reliable data delivery in fixed locations.
Only the third one is radio-like, but behaves optically. Good from broadcaster's perspective of market domination,
but less "radio-like" for listeners who think they should be able to hear K-whatchamacallit on certain kinds of days.

Only radio is radio, and I find the suggestion "everything" should go digital akin to suggesting we should all seek zombification and
spend the rest of enternity as the living dead. Not interested in going all-digital OR becoming the living dead.

 

[david9396]

driving home from wooster to orrville, ohio last night, my car radio in my jetta was tuned to 850. imagine my surprise to pick up KOA850 in Denver rather than SportsRadio850WKNR from Cleveland. this was at 9pm and was surprised to hear traffic on a friday night--same types of messes that plague Cleveland. lol--david9396 formerly david5258

 

[willcail]

Was in Whitehall Ohio and I was picking up some daytimers stations that have a brodcast range of 1000 watts. WAIS 770 AM and WHTH 790 AM. On my Grundig Mini 300 Radio. That is the best 30 bucks I spend on a radio that have an analog tuner with a digital readout that is able to pick up 1000 watts daytimers.

 

[Rusty Muck]

driving home from wooster to orrville, ohio last night, my car radio in my jetta was tuned to 850. imagine my surprise to pick up KOA850 in Denver rather than SportsRadio850WKNR from Cleveland. this was at 9pm and was surprised to hear traffic on a friday night--same types of messes that plague Cleveland. lol--david9396 formerly david5258

By design (and it was former WRMR CE Ted Alexander's) WKNR's night pattern has to be constricted to fit the 50 kW non-dir clear-channel signal that KOA has. It also has to null to the south to protect co-adjacent WHAS, and to the east to protect WNTJ/850 in Johnstown, PA.

Alas, since WHAS' started going with IBOC on a 24-hour basis, their "hiss" almost totally drowns out my reception of WKNR. And this is the case in AVON, just west of Westlake. I can't imagine, when I will travel out to Wakeman tonight, just how bad it will be.

There was a reason why Citadel and Cox Radio have given up the ghost on nighttime IBOC. For the latter, it was a TOTAL (!) abandonment of IBOC on the AM dial. It will fail as badly as AM stereo, it's just a matter of WHEN.

- nate81

 

[SonoSational18]

driving home from wooster to orrville, ohio last night, my car radio in my jetta was tuned to 850. imagine my surprise to pick up KOA850 in Denver rather than SportsRadio850WKNR from Cleveland. this was at 9pm and was surprised to hear traffic on a friday night--same types of messes that plague Cleveland. lol--david9396 formerly david5258

You were in one of WKNR's deep nulls. Their interference free contour on the radial towards Denver is a couple hundred yeards from the tower, so I'm not at all surprised you heard KOA. Out around Great Northern Mall, WKNR is sometimes unlistenable because of adjacent channel hash from WHAS.

 

[nmoore6676]

In the long term, once everyone has a HD radio the stations will be able to shut off their analog signals and increase digital power. And at that point the digital coverage is supposed to be the same as the current analog coverage.

Wonderful in theory, but with even digital FM barely crawling out of the gate after two years, what are the chances that "everyone" will have an HD radio any time soon, let alone one capable of tuning AM. I'm afraid that they will be about as rare (and short-lived) as AM stereo receivers in the 80's and early 90's.

Let's face up to the fact that IBOC AM is a severely flawed technology. If we want to translate our AM stations into digital, I'd suggest one of these two scenarios (or possibly a combination): Simulcast AM stations in digital on the HD-3 channel of an existing FM station. I'd venture to say that a large number of AM's have a sister station that could accomodate them. Stand-alones wanting to go digital could lease the time off of a non-owned FM. Down the road, additional spectrum could be opened. There has been talk about opening up 80-88 mHz (they already have done this in many parts of the world) to FM and make those frequencies available first to those AM's wanting to make the move. (This could be structured similarly to the current rules governing stations moving to AM's "X-band"). The current AM band would remain all-analog until enough listening shifts to the digital versions and the current AM operators figure it isn't moneaarily worth those huge power bills to run those 50kw transmitters and tying up acres of primo real estate for those five tower directional arrays.

The problem is that in the past, new transmission technologies (color TV, FM-Stereo) were made to be compatible with and non destructive to the original operation. Meaning that they had to be receivable on existing equipment and could not create interference with other stations. Actually digital AM could be a great thing, as it overcomes the major objection (static and noise) while utilizing the signal penetration and non reflective properties (in daytime) of the MW band. The current hybrid system is an abomination. It only gives marginal digital capability while generating a hash on the adjacent channels.

I guess the wizards in DC thought that people would be willing turn in their old TV sets for the digital revolution but they wouldn't go out of their way to get digital radios. Well the current situation will likely make that come true. Next year we will either get new TV's, or an adapter. I don't see digital radios flying off the shelves.

 

[SonoSational18]

Another possibility would be to open up some more MW band space for AM digital.... perhaps above 1700 kHz and allow AM operators to apply for a second channel there. (Additional digital-only channels might be shoehorned into some areas as well in the current AM band). Since 99% of the population doesn't have digiatl AM radios, the new ones could be made to tune whatever frequencies would be allocated. Of course, per my previous post, this secondary channel would not have to be in the MW band. It could be virtually anywhere in the spectrum.