• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

difference in country- what's better?

A

arizonatodd

Guest
Hey I hope someone can help me. I grew up in Tulsa and have just moved to northern Arizona to work at a very small station. We are about to change the fm to either country or classic country and I am trying to help the owners decide. I remember KWEN and KVOO being similar and both highly regarded. I also remember the Bull doing well for a time. Anyway my question is which is better. There is already one station nearby that plays what I would call regular country. More like KVOO I guess. But what makes KWEN different? More oldies maybe? If you were me would you do classic country? Is there some other kind? We do not have as good a signal but the owner definitely wants some form of country.

Finally, are there such things as programming services out there for small markets? We do not want satellite, but like a service that would send us the logs and cd's or something that we can plug into our automation.

Thanks,
Todd
 
For the music, you might try Halland Broadcast Service. I found it by googling broadcast radio music services. Some of the other readers of this site, music directors especially, will have better ideas, but here is a place to start. Here's the link: http://www.h-b-s.com/

If it were me, I would go Classic Country. Given you are in a small station and no station nearby is playing classic country, it would be a format your station could "own." I'm a big believer in Format Ownership, and it would be a good place for your station. All the songs are familiar to the listeners and it would be a familiar format for your advertisers too. What you don't find in the music provided by the services, you could embellish with simply buying some music from a great source called Collector's Choice Music (ccmusic.com) and itunes. Collector's Choice has a VERY WIDE choice of classic country, novelty country, instrumentals, great stuff. Be heavy on community service and local news and sports. You can sell the heck out of it. Good luck.
 
KWEN and KVOO are probably not what you want to look at. They are more "new" country, especially KVOO recently. Try KXBL Big Country 99.5 in Tulsa. They have some great "old" ones and some "pop" country from the 70's and 80's. Hope this helps.
 
I say "classic country". It never gets old. Give Big Country 99.5 KXBL a listen. Also, don't make your library too small. This bullshit of keeping the playlist below 250 in rotation is what makes niche radio so boring at times. Get 700-1,000 songs and keep the rotation fresh and unpredictable. You will smoke your competition's ass.

Wishing You the Best,
Bob O'Shea
 
Or even better, get 1000 in rotation and then add a wildcard spot every hour that will pluck from another 2000 or so; that will really give the not-wholly-true impression of immense variety, and if it's something really off the beaten track, fresh and for sure unpredictable. Don't have to do all 3000 all off the bat, but keep adding to the library constantly. iTunes is definitely good, they've got stuff on there you might not expect; for instance, I though I was wasting my time when I plunked in an old hit from when Marie Osmond was having Country hits in the 80s, but lo and behold it came up (and was purchased!).

Another option that no one's ventured into yet that I know of is Country Adult Cotemporary--ballads and midtempos only, and leave the rockin' chit-kickin' "Family Tradition" type stuff to the other station.
 
KWEN works because their playlist is researched and they have a smaller active library. If they're playing it, it's testing well. KVOO's playlist isn't researched down to the last song. Their currents have been tested with callout. But they don't do the exhaustive research that KWEN has done. And no, I don't work for Cox...anymore. :)
 
That's right don't listen to "Shoot-from-hip-radio" from Journal (KVOO and KXBL) in Tulsa. O'Shea's right, KXBL in Tulsa could be such a great station if they'd do it right, but unfortunately they have great talent and horrible management. They tinker with it so much and, by my count, their music shifts (and never researched) on a weekly basis so it will never happen.

The same for KVOO. I wish I could consult both stations for week and do better than Journal's done for the past 5 years. Oh lordy. Sorry to ramble.

You're best boiler-plate for Classic Country these days is to listen to WSM in Nashville. http://wsmonline.com/
 
I think you are very smart to seek advise before making a big decision like this. It's good to explore all options.

A few questions we or I should know before answering a question like this: What does your market have in it? Do you have a new, classic or basic country station in your market? Is the country station in your market a heritage?

If you go classic country it is good to have a decent library but make sure you are only playing familiar songs. Don't confuse variety with playing a bunch of unfamiliar songs. The second an average listener hears a song they don't know they'll punch out. Especially being a new station in town...you'll have first time sampling...STAY AWAY from unfamiliar. Maybe keep a tight play list in the beginning & slowly open it up.

If you go the newer country route then keep a tight, well tested play list. If your budget doesn't allow for music testing then pattern yourself after stations in other markets who test, like K95.

Outside of music you have content & all that stuff. Obviously that needs to be compelling & it needs to reflect your listener & her (or his) lifestyle. Outline your target demo & know who you're talking to. You probably know most of this so I won't bore you but would love to chat more. Feel free to email me off the boards if you wanted to talk more. If you don't like any of this then just disregard!!! ;D
 
Just wanted to thank everyone for your input. I'll let you know what happens!

Todd
 
Todd,

Are you going to stream the station? I'd like to hear it.

Good Luck!
 
Jack,

Lots of good advice in your posting - I hope MANY people listen to what you said!

One thing I'd question not from a disagreeing standpoint as much as an "I don't know" standpoint:
The second an average listener hears a song they don't know they'll punch out.

Is this a belief, or is it based on research and facts? Again, I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just questioning your sources. I've heard it over and over again... but I also have heard Roger Wimmer say "it seems like" is never a good reason... and I'm not sure that I can point to anyone who's ever said this who can point to the research to back it up. Mind you, there may be mountains of research... I'd just like you to point me to it. 8)

What I hear from listeners over and over again (and this IS a "seems like" statement) is that they are sick of the same songs over and over, and they're frustrated when a new station comes to town and they're playing "the same thing" everybody else is... as bad or worse is the station that comes to town playing great songs... that they play again, occasionally in the same order, 16 hours later.

(A perfect example of this was when 94.1 became KTSO / Tulsa's Soft Oldies years ago... a lady in the office I worked at was THRILLED to find them... until she found them playing almost exactly the same songs day after day... and she eventually went away. I recently had the same conversation with a couple of ladies about KBEZ... they said they had 92.9's library memorized. The lady in my office started bringing in CDs, the ladies I talked to a couple of days ago settled on [IRONY] 94.1 / The Sound.

In my case, I remember Mix 102.3 / KTOW-FM coming on with an urban format from Sand Springs, and they were playing George Michael's song "Freedom." [The song was at least a couple of years old then, I think.] It was great for two or three days, but by the end of the week I was turning away when they played it.)

There will be a difference also, I think, on whether you go classic country or current. Classic country fans I would expect to want depth... they love these songs but they heard them over and over and over when they came out, so give them a large library of songs they know & love. If you're going current, you certainly should be rotating the hits frequently, but an occasional surprise (one or two an hour MAX), either a song that didn't chart as high or an up and coming song will keep people around to see what's coming. If you have a direct current competitor, then... OK, yeah, mega-tight playlist of top 10 hits so you can win on cume. :)

I'm not even going to claim that last paragraph was based on research, it's absolutely a "seems like" paragraph and should be taken with a grain of salt... but to go back to the start of this post: I'd like to find out what and how has been researched about familiar music.

(P.S.- One of the worst liners I can hear a station use is, "where you know all the songs." I'm bored, and I'm gone! Personal opinion, only. I suppose if the market was full of hit and miss stations, they might be a good marketing angle...)
 
If I heard correct...the cities with a PPM are showing these results. Don't quote me on that but I remember a conversation I had with my consultant recently.

With a classic format you definately want to open it up. But, at launch I would keep it tight because you'll want to give the listener the impression that every time they turn your station on their favorite song is playing. As you begin to establish your station begin opening up the variety because you don't want to burn the classics. ;D I don't have cold hard facts but this theory just seems to add up. Maybe a slow build up. Like you said, that's a "seems like" thing to me. ;D

Very good thoughts, Gene. That's so cool that we can discuss stuff like this. After knowing you for so long it's nice to banter about this stuff!!!
 
If the PPMs are showing people instantly tuning from unfamiliar music, that's gonna be hard to argue with. I've seen some of that but I've also seen it go the other direction... the statistics will be interesting to follow. That's certainly the logic behind licensing a song for use in a commercial; as people get familiar with the song, they want to hear it on the radio.

Your P2s and P3s are going to love a tight playlist at first, but your P1s may get burned really, really quick... from my two experiences, I'd say 3 - 4 days... way too fast for casual cume-ers to even notice you've repeated a song. ;) I would think it would be hard to balance that; perhaps with a promotion campaign three months in after you expand the library saying "now more variety / listen to us now!"? I dunno.

As many thousands upon thousands of songs have hit the charts, gone to #1, etc., it just seems like it ought to be possible to create a "nothing but mega-hits" format that knocks it out of the park with every song. (I know, I know, just broke the "seems like" rule!) :p

I suspect sometimes we program a song because it "sounds" right when it didn't chart that high, or skip another song that may have gone to #1 for "X" number of weeks because it doesn't sound right... forgetting that people listen to the radio for songs, not a sound.

I've been shocked to research songs out of previous decades that AC & oldies stations have just beaten to DEATH, only to find out they didn't break the top 10. Other songs that made the year-end charts, maybe top 10 for the whole year, have disappeared from the radio.

What if we really just played #1s? It's hard for me to understand how you miss your target if you're only playing songs that sold a million copies, or two million copies, or whatever. ...and it seems like there would be a LOT of songs like that in just about any genre, although I'll confess to not having counted. ;D

After my posting I went and looked at The Research Dr.'s archive and found a post labeled "Familiar Music" on this page:

http://www.rogerwimmer.com/researchdr/f1questions.htm

It says in part:

...What I usually find is that most people say they like to hear new music, but in reality,...

...when radio stations play a lot of unfamiliar music, the listeners complain that they don’t listen to the radio station a lot because the music is unfamiliar...

...Overall, the research (and Arbitron numbers) tends to lean with the side of not playing a lot of unfamiliar music. But there are always exceptions....

On a personal note, I LOVE being able to discuss this stuff with you! I still remember driving through Joplin in the middle of the night and calling you up to compliment you on how great you sounded... and talking about me wanting to start my own radio station (loll... so much for THAT). ::)

How far we've both come!!!

I respect and admire your work, and your thoughts; thanks for being willing to debate radio theory with me! After all these years, I don't think anybody's fully figured out how to tame the constantly evolving animal known as the radio audience...
 
NightAire said:
On a personal note, I LOVE being able to discuss this stuff with you! I still remember driving through Joplin in the middle of the night and calling you up to compliment you on how great you sounded... and talking about me wanting to start my own radio station (loll... so much for THAT). ::)

How far we've both come!!!

I respect and admire your work, and your thoughts; thanks for being willing to debate radio theory with me! After all these years, I don't think anybody's fully figured out how to tame the constantly evolving animal known as the radio audience...

Oh man...I forgot about those days. We've spent a lot of time on the phone & talking about all sorts of stuff. That was your back in your KXOJ days when you played edgier music at night!!! ;D
 
Jack-
I just read where you once worked in Joplin, Mo. My wife used to work in Joplin radio. She went on to work all over the Tulsa airwaves. I always thought Joplin was a great sounding small market. It just didn't sound small. I used to enjoy traveling through. Hope all is well in Alabama and your career path is still on a positive rate of climb.

She and I both are out of radio now. I retired in June of '06 and she made a career jump into the airline industry back in December of '99. We never looked back.

Best Wishes,
Bob O'Shea
 
Bob Oshea said:
Jack-
I just read where you once worked in Joplin, Mo. My wife used to work in Joplin radio. She went on to work all over the Tulsa airwaves. I always thought Joplin was a great sounding small market. It just didn't sound small. I used to enjoy traveling through. Hope all is well in Alabama and your career path is still on a positive rate of climb.

She and I both are out of radio now. I retired in June of '06 and she made a career jump into the airline industry back in December of '99. We never looked back.

Best Wishes,
Bob O'Shea

Hey Bob!

Things are great in Alabama. This is a good market & I'm with a great company. This is the gig I've been looking for. I'm the Operations Director (PD) & I'm also on the Morning Show.

The first time I worked in Joplin I worked at Z103 (late 90s). Then I worked there again when it was KAT 102.5 & then it switched to KIX 102.5. When Chuck Dunaway ran the place it was the place to be. Then they sold to Zimmer & it all went down hill from there. That seems like a million years ago & I wouldn't change a thing. If it wasn't for my bad experiences with Zimmer & Journal I wouldn't be who I am & where I'm at today. Everything happens for a reason. If it wasn't for Journal screwing me over I wouldn't have ended up over at KXOJ. If it wasn't for working under Bob Thornton I wouldn't have been given a shot as a PD. And of course that job introduced me to my current employer.
 
Agreed, Jack. Bob was a good boss to work for. He did a lot for my career and my growth as a personality, programmer and manager. I learned more in 4 years of working for Bob than in in the previous 15 years of my career period. There have been several Tulsa managers who positively influenced me. But I'm with Jack in agreement that working for KXOJ was key in me being prepared for the job I hold today.

Others who were just fantastic to work for: Ken Staley, KCFO. He gave me my first full time gig with benefits right when I needed it. Plus, he was great to just sit and talk radio with. Steve Hunter was a super manager as well. I learned some good things about positive reinforcement, motivation in management and strategy from Steve.
 
"You loved Baby Blue, I Can Still Make Cheyenne, and Christmas Cookies? Wanna hear how the guy that wrote those #1 smashes for George Strait, sings his own song? I'll let you, in just a few minutes...along with a Garth #1 from 10 years ago today...and the first one we ever played you by Kenny Chesney."
Do something like that, not just "another 10 in a row without interruption on the way...including some Garth and Kenny Chesney...and a new guy named Aaron Barker." You can make 'em WANT to hear that 'unfamiliar' song. Can't do it with every new cut, of course -- but do it often enough, and well enough...and you'll be the station they've come to expect (no, Aaron didn't write that one for George) not just their alltime favorites, but also the new songs they'll want to hear, and that'll make 'em just a tad slower with that old button finger when they can't name it in the first three notes.
kudzooter -- part of that first KAKC incursion of Bill Drake's "little west coast hippy format" into middle America (tympani) 40 years ago...today (more or less)
 
What frequency? Where were the studios? Tower? Who owned KAKC?
 
Hey JournalGuy, got to Tulsa TV Memories .com and check out the KAKC page. Everything is there. They have great radio pages for KRMG KVOO KELi and others.
Great stuff.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom