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Difference in underwriting and advertising

krush99 said:
This is what I came up with after a full Saturday of work, with a highlighter and a laser printer.
Let me know if this helps.
Click to expand...

Good List!!! I'm printing that out and putting it in my notebook on this project.

Did you come across any situation that would address the following: Something new to the equation (if not new, then EXPANDED in scope) is the concept of web pages.

NPR is learning to market through their website. I see a number of LPFMs have websites. What if as part of an "underwriting package" I provide the underwriting businesses with a space (a page?) in my station website where a real sell job is displayed: prices. credentials. etc. Things that can not legally air.

Then as part of my station imaging I remind listeners that additional information about our underwriters is available on the station website.

No offending phrases or verbiage is broadcast. But the listener is invited to browse the website to learn more. Would that raise the hackles of the FCC?
 
Second question:

If you listen to streaming from some of the major, big city stations, because of union talent fees that do not include some of the commercials. They don't have an understanding at this point about talent fees to the voices of the commercials.

If I stream my LPFM, is the FCC going to be hacked, do they have a legal lever to pull if on the streaming I pull out some program content which goes on the air and replace it with non-conforming commercials on the stream.

I can see some situations where you could have a larger audience on the streaming side and/or through distribution via the area cable systems than your on-the-air audience in the 3-1/2 mile radius of the tower.

(Changing the content of the streaming probably creates a new problem dealing with music royalties.)
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Second question:

If you listen to streaming from some of the major, big city stations, because of union talent fees that do not include some of the commercials. They don't have an understanding at this point about talent fees to the voices of the commercials.

If I stream my LPFM, is the FCC going to be hacked, do they have a legal lever to pull if on the streaming I pull out some program content which goes on the air and replace it with non-conforming commercials on the stream.

I can see some situations where you could have a larger audience on the streaming side and/or through distribution via the area cable systems than your on-the-air audience in the 3-1/2 mile radius of the tower.

(Changing the content of the streaming probably creates a new problem dealing with music royalties.)
Click to expand...

First of all, if anyone files a complaint with the FCC over what they heard on your website's webstream over your OTA signal, the FCC wont do much. I know, I tried filing a complaint about crude language and a sugestive song I heard on the stream of one staiton and unless I could prove it ran over the air.. the complaint held no water.

Also, you can run commercials on the webstream as long as you make it clear they are on just the stream... you know, break away for seperate spots..

check out www.jaspersfm.com and click the Listen button
 
As far as the website promotions:

Within the on air "mention" itself you can say "more information (is at) kxkk.com (or their own website)" I would refrain from saying "pricing and coupons are available at kxkk.com"

By all means promote the heck out of your website! That is where you can legally have all the ads you want!

Remember too that the only organization you can raise money for on-the-air is for the station itself. You can't have a pledge drive for the ASPCA.

I am still thinking through the legality of a non-comm having a radio auction in which the station sells goods donated by businesses to the station. It would get the products on the air with a retail price and sell them. However, it becomes tricky to not draw the line between product donation = money for airtime/promotion. Although, when the items are donated, they become property of the station. The station could raise funds for itself by selling off its assets including microphones, towers etc, or $50 gift certificates to a spa over the air. The product language and description (including price) could be read to help describe the item. Of course this could all be done on the web through an ebay account too. (don't sell promotional cds!)

If the radio auction would be illegal, I wonder if a Tradio or trading horn program on a non-comm be legal. It might be seen as raising funds for individuals. Of course the individuals would not be paying for airtime.

By all means use the internet, a sponsored weatherline or concertline. Make sure every weather forecast is sponsored in part by _____.

Sponsors for specific shows must be announced "during" the show.
General station sponsors (for the upkeep and running of the station) do NOT have to be mentioned, but can (and should) be mentioned whenever the station is on the air.

Also, you can run commercials on non-comm stations as long as the station receives no money, no promise of future money or sponsorship, no donated items, NOTHING at all. The FCC has dismissed illegal underwriting mentions when the station received NOTHING for the mention (time=infinite). Be very careful!! (there is an FCC target painted on this idea, but they can't charge you with selling airtime if you give it away and receive nothing for it) This would allow you to air professional sports feeds (still this might be a bad idea)

However another interesting idea:

Only the main signal (99.1) must be non-comm. The SCA's can be sold, rented, or even ran as a commercial radio station! This is exciting considering DRE Digital Radio Express makes a digital audio feed using the SCA. You could create a commercial radio station and piggy-back it off of the analog non-comm signal.

Going on a limb here, because HD radio is not the main signal of the station, you could run 3 commercial feeds on the HD channels of a non-comm. Recently, the FCC has allowed translators to retransmit separate HD (HD1, HD2, or HD3) feeds as their main feeds. If you get a translator above 91.9Mhz, you could feed it with one of your commercial feed (HD1, HD2, HD3) of a non-comm station! You could also let a translator pass your HD+analog signal through too.

These are some ideas of dancing on the fence! (don't fall off!)
 
I stand corrected. Not only are LPFM's resrticted in add content like the non=com band but there are also significantly restricted in avails per hour.
No wonder a lot don't make it. How can you raise revenue with those restrictions?
The NAB sure castrated that service.
 
papadoc,

LPFM's in Canada are restricted in "spots" per hour, however those in the USA are not limited to the number of sponsors mentioned an hour, or times an hour. However, underwriting mentions get more and more promotional the longer they get.

It is hard to keep things afloat. Many non-comm's and LPFM's are owned by 501(c)3's so donaters (businesses) can take their donations off their taxes. That is a benefit commercial radio does not offer.
 
radioguybroadcasting said:
Uh, churches can't run commercials or program length pitches on non commercial radio at all... non commercial radio is that, NO COMMERCIALS.
Click to expand...

Uh, no. In your mind this may be very clear, but in the world of FCC rules & regs it ain't so clear.

Commercial scripts and underwriting scripts can be identical. But if that script is aired on behalf of a non-profit organization it is a commercial when aired on a commercial station and an underwriting credit when aired on a non-commercial station.
 
Commercial scripts and underwriting scripts can be identical. But if that script is aired on behalf of a non-profit organization it is a commercial when aired on a commercial station and an underwriting credit when aired on a non-commercial station.
...As long as the station isn't offered any type of compensation for the announcement.
Right?
 
Based on what I have heard on the air through the years on NPR affiliated stations, and on some religious stations that seem to have their act together....

I have to ask the question this way: Can my station use "call to action" copy on a non-commercial educational or LPFM station if the announcement is paid for by a NON-COMMERCIAL, not-for-profit organization. Two examples:

The Atlanta Symphony Orchestra will be in concert and wishes to sell tickets to the concert. The advertising lists seats available, the phone number to call, and a promise of an enjoyable evening. Legal?

The First Baptist Church of Alto, GA is having a benefit concert by three gospel quartets. It is a benefit concert to buy food for the food pantry. The church as a 501 (c)3 exempt organization is selling the tickets and in the announcement askes people to buy tickets at this price, call this phone number to order your tickets, and be at this location Saturday night to thrill to the music... for a good cause.

My ears tell me this is the way the NCE/LPFM stations are operating.

Now, If I rent a hall two counties over and have the same Gospel Quartets a week later as a personal enterprise to make money for myself, now I cannot buy/pay for commercials on those same stations if the copy has "call for action" verbiage. Right?
 
amfmxm said:
radioguybroadcasting said:
Uh, churches can't run commercials or program length pitches on non commercial radio at all... non commercial radio is that, NO COMMERCIALS.
Click to expand...

Uh, no. In your mind this may be very clear, but in the world of FCC rules & regs it ain't so clear.

Commercial scripts and underwriting scripts can be identical. But if that script is aired on behalf of a non-profit organization it is a commercial when aired on a commercial station and an underwriting credit when aired on a non-commercial station.
Click to expand...

Not true, because what airs on a commercial station could seriously be considered a violation of the underwriting rules on a non commercial station.

A Non Commercial organization COULD pay for spots on a non commercial station and that would be underwriting... not getting any compensation and it would be considered a PSA.
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Based on what I have heard on the air through the years on NPR affiliated stations, and on some religious stations that seem to have their act together....

I have to ask the question this way: Can my station use "call to action" copy on a non-commercial educational or LPFM station if the announcement is paid for by a NON-COMMERCIAL, not-for-profit organization. Two examples:

The Atlanta Symphony Orchestra will be in concert and wishes to sell tickets to the concert. The advertising lists seats available, the phone number to call, and a promise of an enjoyable evening. Legal?

The First Baptist Church of Alto, GA is having a benefit concert by three gospel quartets. It is a benefit concert to buy food for the food pantry. The church as a 501 (c)3 exempt organization is selling the tickets and in the announcement askes people to buy tickets at this price, call this phone number to order your tickets, and be at this location Saturday night to thrill to the music... for a good cause.

My ears tell me this is the way the NCE/LPFM stations are operating.

Now, If I rent a hall two counties over and have the same Gospel Quartets a week later as a personal enterprise to make money for myself, now I cannot buy/pay for commercials on those same stations if the copy has "call for action" verbiage. Right?
Click to expand...

NO.

A "call to action" is NOT permitted on ANY non comemrcial outlet no matter who sponsors it.
 
radioguybroadcasting said:
NO.

A "call to action" is NOT permitted on ANY non comemrcial outlet no matter who sponsors it.
Click to expand...

That may be. I am looking through the FCC records trying to find a case where they fined a station or admonished a station for a situation like I described. (Call to action on behalf of a non-profit entity.)

Here is what 93.503 (d) says (in part):


  • No promotional announcement on behalf of for profit entities shall be broadcast at any time in exchange for the receipt, in whole or in part, of consideration to the licensee, its principals, or employees.

It is silent on not-for-profit entities. It addresses for profit entities.

I will continue to look.
 
Some call to actions are permitted. You can do anything for non-profit organizations and government entities, if and only if, the non-profit is the only one "mentioned" in the credit. Once a for-profit gets mentioned, the mention is sour.

Legal:
The Springfield High School marching band wants you to attend their fundraiser dinner on May 2nd. Tickets are only $12 and are going fast. Call 253-555-6488 to buy yours.

Illegal:
The Springfield High School marching band wants you to attend their fundraiser dinner at JT's Steakhouse on May 2nd. Tickets are only $12 and are going fast. Call 253-55-6488 to buy yours.

Why is the second one illegal? BC it mentions a for profit business, JT's steakhouse. Without mentioning JT's it is fine.

As for the symphony example, make sure the company is a 501(c)3 / non-profit and make sure the theater is a non-profit too.

You will not find ANY reprimands of the FCC tagging a call to action for a non-profit. Been there, done that.
Check out Penfold 5123-1992 and Evansville-Vanderburgh School Corporation let19990323.
 
The line may be clear in print (FCC rules), but experience shows us there is a gigantic blur in reality!
 
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