Difficult local stations to receive (pre cable)

[vibe]

There are a lot of threads about the stations and their programs but one still had to receive the stations to begin with.
In Connecticut (hard hittin New Britain), we were able to get all the locals except Channel 8 in New Haven-only 30-35 mi at most to the SW. Channel 8 was full power but despite a large rooftop antenna w/ rotor atop a 3 story home, getting a clear ch 8 simply was not possible. We had to rotate the antenna almost due N to receive our ABC programming from much further Mt. Tom, N of Springfield MA -probably 50 mi or so, Or in rare tropo events, we got our ABC programming from Providence RI-60 mi or NYC 90 mi.
And my sister and bro in law never could get the Springfield stations despite living in Southwick MA. They were able to get a clear ch 8 from 50+ mi vs a much closer terrible ghosted local ch 40 from only 12-15 mi.
So we hear about all the reception issues with digital. Did anyone else have any other challenges with their supposedly local analogs and want to share them?

Merry Christmas-vibe.

 

[KeithE4]

I don't know about today, but when I lived in Bloomington IN in the '60s and early '70s, then-WLWI (now WTHR) Channel 13 was all but impossible to receive. They were ABC at the time, and the always-snowy picture made them almost impossible to watch. Sometimes, it was easier to get ABC from Chicago, Cincinnati, or Evansville than it was from Indy.

The Indy UHFs (just Chs. 20 and 40 then) were also impossible to get without a really good UHF antenna, but since we had WTIU for PBS, it didn't matter much.

Another area for poor TV reception was Vilas County WI. WAEO/WJFW Ch. 12 (NBC) and WLEF Ch. 36 (PBS) were clear, but WSAU/WSAW Ch. 7 (CBS) was snowy, and WAOW Ch. 9 (ABC) was usually impossible. Even those who had huge antennas on 100 foot towers had trouble with 9. There were flea-powered translators in Boulder Jct. on 4 (WSAU, now 57) and 5 (WAOW), but they were spotty at best outside the central part of the county. That's why the Ch. 4 translator was moved to 57, and WAOW started WYOW on 34 (although their translator on 5 had gone dark sometime in the mid '70s and never was moved to UHF).

 

[LKellerIII]

I grew up in the 50s and 60s, in Tujunga, in the foothills above the San Fernando Valley - about 20 miles from downtown LA, with a lot of mountains blocking us from the Mt. Wilson towers. Before cable (came in about 1967), the local LA stations came in with ghosts and fuzz, at best. Channels 2 (CBS), 4 (NBC) and KTLA-5 were the best, the others were virtually unwatchable.

The San Diego based stations came in much better. I remember that we watched ABC shows on XETV Channel 6, out of Tijuana, Mexico, because the picture quality on KABC was poor.

I recall that about 1963, a very young Regis Philbin was the host of the morning show on one of the San Diego network affiliates - can't remember which one. iIRC, the show was called Sun Up. This was before he made it to LA.

The cable company was established in the mid 60s because a big housing development was built in the northwestern part of town, and residents there could get no TV signals at all.

 

[dave73]

Prior to digital, WYIN Gary, IN was always difficult to get, even if an outdoor antenna was pointed in the direction of their tower. So most people in their COL couldn't get them in clearly. WYIN's tower is south of Cedar Lake, IN, in an unincorporated area, called Lake Delecarlia, & was broadcasting on 56. I however don't understand when WCAE was on the air on 50 (the original non-commercial allocation), I had little trouble getting them. I don't know where that station was transmitting from, but the station was run by Lake Central High School, until it went off the air in 1983.

WJYS, licensed to Hammond, IN on 62, broadcasted out of Tinley Park, IL (where their studios are located) was also difficult to get, even if you had your antenna pointed toward Tinley Park. WYIN is the NW Indiana PBS affiliate, while WJYS tried to be an independent, airing various rerun programming, but their signal prevented any real chance of being succesful. So for several years, they brokered out their timeslots. Most of it now is of local & national religious shows, but they still have plenty of infomercials on their station. At one time, they were nothing, but infomercials. WJYS now broadcasts off the top off of the Sears Tower, but their old tower still stands, because cellphone companies use the tower.

 

[EricStein]

In the mid-to-late '90s, we had Dish Network before they started offering local channels, so we had to use rabbit ears to receive the local stations. In Phoenix, KSAZ-TV Channel 10 (which used a Circularly Polarized antenna system for their analog signal--most TV stations use Horizontal Polarization--both in the analog and digital eras) and UHF's KNXV-TV 15 and KUTP 45 were the stations with the best reception. The rest of the VHF's (3, 5, 8, 12) and KASW 61 (mainly because of its high channel position) suffered from ghosting and interference more than the others.

 

[bpatrick]

In Kinston, NC (Greenville/New Bern/Washington DMA) we
could get a clear picture on WITN/7, the farthest from us
at about 40 miles; WNCT/9, the closest at 25 miles, and
WCTI/12 (35 miles) were quite snowy. Also, some of our
neighbors could get WRAL/5 Raleigh; we never could.

In Tampa it was difficult to see WTOG/44 with its snowy
picture.

In Plano, TX (Dallas/Ft. Worth DMA) we had difficulty getting
a picture at all on KXAS/5 and KTVT/11, the two Fort Worth
stations at the time (late '70s).

 

[Limp73]

Before public TV came to Dayton in 1972 (then WMUB-TV/WOET now WPTD/WPTO) it was definately impossible to pull in WOSU-TV,WCET,WBGU-TV and WOUB-TV unless the sky was clear and the atmospheric conditions and temperatures were just right out in the country where I grew up....usually in the fall.

WFYI came in snowy late at night when I was watching The Allman Bros. Band at Fillmore East back in the day.

My mother never watched Public TV much until Lawrence Welk's reruns came on in the late 80s....with the exception of Evening At Pops on those rare occasions.

 

[Charles1]

WBMG-42 was next to impossible to receive in Birmingham in the early days (late 60's). We only had rabbit ears on our TV's, because we lived less than five miles as the crow flies from the antenna sites of all of the local channels.

 

[KML0224]

@ Vibe: Hi neighbor! (Ha ha!) I too am in New Britain, CT. I don't live here WILLINGLY, though. Anyways, as for the local reception:

I used to get WTNH-TV (ABC) channel 8 of New Haven better than WFSB-TV (CBS) channel 3 of Hartford most of the time. The reason was that I always had problems with Avon Mountain in the analog days. WFSB-TV was only reliable most of the time. I NEVER received channel 18 reliably, whether they were WHCT-TV (IND) or WUVN-TV (UNI). WEDH-TV (PBS) channel 24 of Hartford only came in clear the day they moved onto Rattlesnake Mountain for a year and change before the digital shut-off. I always had to rely on a snowy color signal of WEDN-TV (PBS) channel 53 of Norwich until then. I've really never had any problems with either WVIT-TV (NBC) channel 30 of New Britain or WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 of Hartford. WTWS-TV (IND) channel 26 of New London [presently WHPX-TV (ION)] came in somewhat better than WEDN-TV did. WTXX-TV (IND) channel 20 of Waterbury [presently WCCT-TV (CW)] was good on most days, but iffy on others. I saw very little of WBNE-TV (WB) channel 59 of New Haven [presently WCTX-TV (MY)] when they signed on in the 1990s. My biggest problem area in the analog days, without doubt, was Springfield, MA. I never received a watchable signal from WWLP, WGGB or WGBY. It should be noted that when I lived in New Britain's east end for a time in 1991, channel 18 of Hartford was vastly improved. WWLP was watchable, while WGGB, albeit slightly snowy, was viewable if WTNH preempted something here.

In our present digital age, WFSB-TV (CBS) is there about 90% of the time, WUVN-TV (UNI) still cuts out part of the time. WTNH-TV (ABC) blips out at least once a week, which may be due to them being on VHF channel 10 for digital (yes, my indoor antenna was designed for VHF and UHF, too). WCTX-TV (MY) is usually there. Same with WHPX-TV (ION). I virtually have no problems with Rattlesnake Mountain, since they're within 5 miles [WCCT-TV (CW), WEDH-TV (PBS), WVIT-TV (NBC) and WTIC-TV (FOX)]. Like in the analog days, I don't get a trace from Springfield, MA.

 

[Markxxx]

I lived in the South Suburbs of Chicago, Steger, Park Forest, Chicago Heights and Hammond Indiana and never had trouble getting WYIN or WJYS. I only had the antenna that came with the set and the loop for UHF. I thought that WYIN took over the transmitter of WCAE but I could be wrong on that.

 

[Dtv]

wbpx,waub? tv 68 in boston always was snowy and ghost ridden in Halifax, 25ish mi away. Mind you we did not have a roof top setup. My grandparents also had issues with them at 20 mi, the roof setup was vhf only. Wgbh, and wcvb also were kind of troublesome. When wpri-tv a semi local station was abc my mom always watch them over 5. When wlne tv became abc, 5 and 6 had the same reception issues. In the dvt era, 68, 5 and 2 are the strongest signals in the area. Wpri, Wjar, Wnac, Wlcw, are all still very good, only saw wlne for a few moments one summer.

 

[FreddyE1977]

We lived in Pittsburgh, high up on a hill. But with the irregular and hilly terrain there were still local stations which
were difficult to tune.

Primary among these was WTAE-TV4, the ABC affiliate. Unlike most of the stations whose sticks were located
in towards the center of town, WTAE was located in the far southern end of Allegheny County. I had heard this
was because they were short-spaced with channel 4's in Washington, DC, Buffalo and Columbus.

Channel 4 was always difficult to tune clearly at our house. I had some neighbors who could not even get it as
clearly as we did. This proved a major source of irritation when the Steelers would play on Monday Night Football
back in the 70's.

The other one that was a problem was WPGH-TV53. This was unfortunate because they ran most of my
favorite syndicated rerun shows at the time (Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres, Hogan's Heroes, etc.). The signal
arrived with multiple layers of intense ghosting. Probably a result of their high-end frequency. And whenever a
plane would fly overhead their signal would react as some type of radar and would start fluctuating wildly until
the plane had passed. Some neighbors theorized that the signal was bouncing off of the big, flat steel surface
of the 64 story US Steel Building, but I have no idea if there was any truth to that.

WPGH also was the station that carried Penguins Hockey for most of the 70's which was another irritant.
For one season they moved the games to WPTT-TV22, which came in much better. But having a stick located
far to the east on Monroeville, that was not the case for everyone, and the team got a barrage of angry mail
which prompted them to go back to 53 the following season.

Being atop a hill I could get WSTV-TV9 from Steubenville, Ohio and WKBN-TV27 from Youngstown as well
as most locals. And WTRF-TV7 in Wheeling came in better than either 4 or 53. WFMJ-21 in Youngstown was
close in quality until 22 signed on in 1978. Could not really get Youngstown's 33 much at all, which would have
been nice for addressing the Monday Night Football problem.

 

[RadioDaze]

In Durham, North Carolina in the 1980s and early 1990s, public broadcaster WUNC-TV in Chapel Hill was very receivable, yet not a crystal clear picture, despite being a full-power 100kW on VHF channel 4 and the closest transmitter to our home on the city's north side. The market's other VHFs, hometown WTVD-11 and WRAL-TV 5 in Raleigh, you could get very clearly with any antenna--especially WTVD-- and they were even somewhat watchable without any antenna despite being nearly 30-35 miles from our home (both full power at 2,000 feet). There were reports that the WUNC-TV signal was even worse in Raleigh. From 1954 until 1995, the station transmitted from a 799-foot tower atop Terrel's Mountain Southwest of Chapel Hill (the mountain itself was just shy of 200 feet above average terrain). In 1995, they replaced the 799-footer with a new, 1270-foot tower still atop the mountain and their signal improved considerably, though still a challenge being in an opposite direction of the market's other stations. They still have issues with digital channel 25 and are adding booster stations, one in Oxford and another in Raleigh--to broadcast from the antenna farm where most of the other market's signals are.

 

[oburn]

weiq tv educational was almost impossible to get in the 60s in mobile alabama wear tv was hard to get in mobile in the 50s and till 1960

 

[borderblaster]

I lived in Western Ohio between the Dayton, Lima and Ft. Wayne markets. Typicl antenna setup was a VHF pointed toward Dayton, a UHF pointed toward Ft. Wayne and a smaller UHF pointed toward Lima's only station, channel 35 at the time. Dayton's WLW-D channel 2 (now WDTN) was kept at a lower power/tower height because it was co-owned with WLWT in Cincinnati. Lots of sparklies and in the summer, E skip would wipe out the signal frequently. Channel 7 was almost always strong but occasionally tropo would bring Detroit in on top of it. We really didn't get the Dayton UHFs (WKTR 16 and WKEF 22) even if you had a rotor. It might be possible to get WBGU (then channel 57) for PBS.

 

[bpatrick]

In Durham, North Carolina in the 1980s and early 1990s, public broadcaster WUNC-TV in Chapel Hill was very receivable, yet not a crystal clear picture, despite being a full-power 100kW on VHF channel 4 and the closest transmitter to our home on the city's north side. The market's other VHFs, hometown WTVD-11 and WRAL-TV 5 in Raleigh, you could get very clearly with any antenna--especially WTVD-- and they were even somewhat watchable without any antenna despite being nearly 30-35 miles from our home (both full power at 2,000 feet). There were reports that the WUNC-TV signal was even worse in Raleigh. From 1954 until 1995, the station transmitted from a 799-foot tower atop Terrel's Mountain Southwest of Chapel Hill (the mountain itself was just shy of 200 feet above average terrain). In 1995, they replaced the 799-footer with a new, 1270-foot tower still atop the mountain and their signal improved considerably, though still a challenge being in an opposite direction of the market's other stations. They still have issues with digital channel 25 and are adding booster stations, one in Oxford and another in Raleigh--to broadcast from the antenna farm where most of the other market's signals are.

When WUNC would sign on each day, the announcer would say that the transmitter was located at "Terrell's Mountain, Chatham County," which I take to mean just across the Orange County line; in Garner we got a clear--although not sharp--picture on Channel 4. OTOH, both 5 and 11's transmitters, located between Garner and Clayton, were visible from my backyard (11's was slightly taller) and we never had any problems with picture clarity on either station (I lived in Garner, BTW). I could also get snowy, but viewable, reception on WITN/7 Washington, NC, and WGHP/8 High Point, the latter of which I preferred to WRAL for ABC (this was in the 1963-65 period, since we left Garner in '65) except for the fact that WRAL carried ABC News and WGHP didn't; otherwise, ABC programs were more inclined to air in pattern on 8 than on 5. And WITN might as well have been our de facto NBC affiliate, since WTVD tried to shoehorn both CBS and NBC into its schedule (shades of Channel 13 in Birmingham) and tended to favor CBS.

Oddly, given its analog position on Channel 2, I never got WFMY.

 

[cyberdad]

Where I grew up, 40 miles northwest of downtown Chicago, WBBM-TV on channel 2 was freqiemtly problematic....even with a good outdoor antenna. This was not the case at all with the other full power Chicago VHF and UHF stations.

On more than a few occasions, WISN-TV (Channel 12) from Milwaukee (55 miles away) produced a better CBS picture than WBBM-TV. WREX-TV from Rockford, IL (Channel 13) was also sometimes an option.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

WKYC/3 (NBC) in Cleveland was always our worst station OTA in the analog days, about 20 miles out from the Parma antenna farm. i remember it with lots of sparklies.

In digital land, freed from low-VHF sparklie hell on RF 17, it's one of our strongest OTA signals.

I could barely get independent WOAC/67 out of Canton. Of course, I was trying to tune a TV with a loop antenna at the Sears at Belden Village Mall, where you could look out the back entrance and see 67's tower on Fulton Road just behind the mall, and it looked awful.

Just as you might suspect as with WKYC, today's digital replacement for WOAC (TCT religious WRLM/47, using their RF channel) comes in fine. They did move even the analog WOAC/67 up closer to the heart of the market, east of Akron...ditto with WDLI/17 (TBN), moved from far east of Canton into the Akron TV/FM antenna farm.

 

[RadioDaze]

Thanks for reminding me about WFMY. In Durham, WFMY was the most reliable out-of-town signal we received, though still with a minimal amount of interference. In the years towards the end of analog broadcasting, I hooked a dipole antenna up to a 13" TV not hooked to cable and, when it was stretched out to take maximum advantage of the wide 54-60 MHz channel 2 signal, made WFMY look nearly flawless (though not as flawless--but more consistent--than WFMY's RF channel 51 signal is here). WGHP was receivable, but usually snowy and in black and white. WITN and WNCT were sporadic, with WITN the more reliable of the two. WECT in Wilmington came in quite a bit, though not as much as WITN and WNCT until 1995 when North Carolina Central University's WNCU signed on at 90.7 MHz with 50,000 watts from a site two miles from our home.

Back to Greensboro stations, the only other ones we regularly received were Burlington's WRDG-TV 16 (later WAAP and now WGPX), which was very snowy but consistent, and Greensboro's WGGT-TV 48 (later WUPN and now WMYV), which was very snowy and inconsistent, though there. If we got anything on VHF 12, it was usually WCTI in New Bern, and channels 20, 26, 45 and 61 rarely if ever registered the faintest image. In analog's later years, channel 20 (originally WEJC, then WBFX, but by this time WTWB and later WCWG) moved to a taller tower and became a very reliable signal here. There current RF 19 signal comes in here sporadically as well.


[/quote]

When WUNC would sign on each day, the announcer would say that the transmitter was located at "Terrell's Mountain, Chatham County," which I take to mean just across the Orange County line; in Garner we got a clear--although not sharp--picture on Channel 4. OTOH, both 5 and 11's transmitters, located between Garner and Clayton, were visible from my backyard (11's was slightly taller) and we never had any problems with picture clarity on either station (I lived in Garner, BTW). I could also get snowy, but viewable, reception on WITN/7 Washington, NC, and WGHP/8 High Point, the latter of which I preferred to WRAL for ABC (this was in the 1963-65 period, since we left Garner in '65) except for the fact that WRAL carried ABC News and WGHP didn't; otherwise, ABC programs were more inclined to air in pattern on 8 than on 5. And WITN might as well have been our de facto NBC affiliate, since WTVD tried to shoehorn both CBS and NBC into its schedule (shades of Channel 13 in Birmingham) and tended to favor CBS.

Oddly, given its analog position on Channel 2, I never got WFMY.
[/quote]

 

[dave73]

Where I grew up, 40 miles northwest of downtown Chicago, WBBM-TV on channel 2 was freqiemtly problematic....even with a good outdoor antenna. This was not the case at all with the other full power Chicago VHF and UHF stations.

On more than a few occasions, WISN-TV (Channel 12) from Milwaukee (55 miles away) produced a better CBS picture than WBBM-TV. WREX-TV from Rockford, IL (Channel 13) was also sometimes an option.

Surprisingly, WBBM-TV 2 was one of the better stations I got. For me, it came in better than WMAQ-TV 5, though I did get the station. I got a lot of ghosting on 5. WLS-TV 7 had the best reception for VHF. I also forgot to mention in my original post, that the only Chicago UHF station that gave me problems was WCFC 38. When they were on the John Hancock, reception was in and out. When Pax bought the station (changed the calls to WCPX), & moved the transmitter to the Sears Tower, it improved some (maybe because of the height, but not sure about that one).

Now for WISN-TV that you mention, this must have been before 1977 for you that they were CBS, because they've been ABC since 1977, & WITI was CBS from 1977 to 1994.

I lived in the South Suburbs of Chicago, Steger, Park Forest, Chicago Heights and Hammond Indiana and never had trouble getting WYIN or WJYS. I only had the antenna that came with the set and the loop for UHF. I thought that WYIN took over the transmitter of WCAE but I could be wrong on that.

For OTA viewers, WYIN had always heard complaints that people couldn't get the station. They still get complaints today, but nowhere near those of their analog signal. That was why they tried to locate on the Sears Tower in 2003, but money was the reason they withdrew their request, & not WTTW & WYCC's objections, since the FCC approved WYIN's application to locate on the Sears Tower. So they're the only station today that doesn't have their antenna & transmitter in Chicago (I don't count WWTO, since they're much closer to Peoria than Chicago) WJYS also received a lot of complaints too. somehow, they were able to locate on the Sears Tower, & be able to pay the lease to be up there (unlike WYIN, who would have only been able to afford 1 year, but not after the 1st year). For me, I have tried to turn my antenna toward both stations in the analog days, & for me, reception was just as bad as having it pointed at Chicago. For digital, I had to get a second antenna, & have it pointed at Cedar Lake, just so WYIN would lock in, or the signal dropped out on me alot, because my antenna pointed at Chicago, couldn't lock in a steady signal.