Difficult Stars to Work For or With

[LKellerIII]

Gordon died in 1995 at the age of 91. He was probably 61 or 62 when that Lucy show was shot. No - he was not a spring chicken, but I'm that age now and I could do a cartwheel. Probably just one... But that's all that musical number needed

 

[KyDXIn]

Gordon died in 1995 at the age of 91. He was probably 61 or 62 when that Lucy show was shot. No - he was not a spring chicken, but I'm that age now and I could do a cartwheel. Probably just one... But that's all that musical number needed.

I applaud you both for your ability. I didn't mean the term to be insulting. I thought any variant of "old" would be too cruel.

 

[firepoint525]

As far as Reed, I believe it was recently discussed here about and his time on The Brady Bunch...although he got along very well with his castmates, he always thought that much of the material was beneath his acting talents. It came to a boiling point at the end of the original series, when he didn't appear in the series finale. I always wonder why if he hated the show so much, why come back for the reunions and revivals series. I guess he had that much affection for his castmates or money talk$ (or both). At least Tina Louise stuck to her principles for several years, refusing to appear in any of the reunion movies.

Reed felt it was so stupid he refused to appear. Schwartz was so pi$$ed off at Reed for "going on strike", that if the show had been renewed for season 6, Mike Brady would have been killed off.

I have heard that, too. I have always wondered how, if the show had been renewed, the "Hollywood Squares" lineup at the opening and closing of the show would have looked. Reed would have been out, but somehow, presumably, Robbie Rist (cousin Oliver) would have had to be added in there, too. Greg was supposedly leaving for college, so this would have meant a reduced role for Barry Williams. The theme song might have had to be changed, as well.

 

[firepoint525]

Eve Plumb was on The Brady Bunch, The Brady Brides, and The Bradys, but there was a different Jan on The Brady Bunch Hour (Geri Reischl, per Brooks and Marsh). Why did Plumb do a Tina Louise regarding Hour? Or was Plumb otherwise occupied?

...Plumb claims she was more than willing to do the variety hour, but already had commitments to NBC for movies-of-the-week and guest shots, so she couldn't agree to the five-year option that Sid & Marty Krofft were demanding all the participants commit to...

All of the original Brady daughters skipped at least one of the reunion specials, except for (most notably) The Brady Brides. Apparently, getting married was enough of an incentive for all of the original "daughters" to appear!

As mentioned, Eve Plumb skipped the variety special(s). Probably a good career move for her!

Susan Olsen missed the Christmas movie.

Maureen McCormick did not appear in The Bradys.

 

[bpatrick]

IMDB shows Reed appeared in 22 episodes of 'Mannix'...initially as a sergeant, later promoted to Lieutenant. Character actors Ward Wood(listed in Brooks and Marsh) and Jack Ging(not credited in that book) were the other lieutenants.

Tim Brooks, in his "Complete Directory of Prime Time TV Stars," simply says that Jack Ging was a frequent supporting player on "Mannix" in the late '60s and early '70s but gives no dates as to his time on the show. It always seemed to me that Ward Wood (Lt. Art Malcolm) and Reed alternated weeks, perhaps because of Reed's shooting schedule on "The Brady Bunch."

If Reed had alternated weeks, he would have had 22 episodes by the end of season two. The show ran eight. And, as noted before, both shows were shot on the Paramount lot or a few minutes' drive away. Neither required Reed for more than a few minutes of screen time.

Note that I said it seemed like Robert Reed and Ward Wood alternated weeks; more than likely they didn't, but it seems that whenever I watched "Mannix" (which was most of the time) one or the other was on.

TV Guide, in its list of the worst shows ever, included "The Brady Bunch Hour" and even mentioned Reed's "profound lack of singing and dancing talent."

Personally, I preferred "Sanford And Son" on Fridays at 8, and even Redd Foxx could be difficult. He quit the show for a time, I remember, and Grady (Whitman Mayo) moved in with Lamont. I remember another (and excuse me if this sounds racially insensitive) when Fred Sanford was given a sapphire ring and Foxx had the writers change it to a ruby ring; he associated "Sapphire" with "Amos 'n' Andy," a show he found offensive.

Finally, for the record, the birth and death years of the four principal leads on "I Love Lucy":
Lucille Ball 1911-1989
Desi Arnaz 1917-1986
Vivian Vance 1912-1979
William Frawley 1887-1966

I also recall, when Gary Morton died, the obits listed his age as 74. If that's true, he would have been born in the 1920s or possibly early 1930s and Lucy would have been a decade or two older. I always thought he and Desi were the same age.

 

[FredLeonard]

I also recall, when Gary Morton died, the obits listed his age as 74. If that's true, he would have been born in the 1920s or possibly early 1930s and Lucy would have been a decade or two older. I always thought he and Desi were the same age.

I guess Lucy was a "cougar" before that became fashionable.

When "I Love Lucy" premiered, Lucy was 40.
When "The Lucy Show" premiered, she was 51.
When "Here's Lucy premiered, she was 57 and 63 when it went off.

 

[michael hagerty]

Gary was born in 1924, so Lucy was 13 years older.

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

Gordon died in 1995 at the age of 91.

That means Gale Gordon was 82 at the time of Lucy's ill-fated Aaron Spelling sit-com "Life With Lucy"...on which Gordon co-starred.

Looking back....It was really very sad to watch Lucy and Gale Gordon try to re-capture the golden glory they shared during the days of CBS' "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy".

Aaron Spelling: THIS WAS YOUR FAULT ! ! !
Secondary fault goes to ABC

 

[michael hagerty]

Gordon died in 1995 at the age of 91.

That means Gale Gordon was 82 at the time of Lucy's ill-fated Aaron Spelling sit-com "Life With Lucy"...on which Gordon co-starred.

Looking back....It was really very sad to watch Lucy and Gale Gordon try to re-capture the golden glory they shared during the days of CBS' "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy".

Aaron Spelling: THIS WAS YOUR FAULT ! ! !
Secondary fault goes to ABC

Aaron's been dead 7 years. He doesn't care. And ABC was under different ownership.

 

[FredLeonard]

Gordon died in 1995 at the age of 91.

That means Gale Gordon was 82 at the time of Lucy's ill-fated Aaron Spelling sit-com "Life With Lucy"...on which Gordon co-starred.

Looking back....It was really very sad to watch Lucy and Gale Gordon try to re-capture the golden glory they shared during the days of CBS' "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy".

Aaron Spelling: THIS WAS YOUR FAULT ! ! !
Secondary fault goes to ABC

Aaron Spelling played a hillbilly in a gas station Lucy, Ricky, Fred and Ethel meet on their cross-country trip to California. If Lucy and Desi had given him more acting he gigs, maybe he'd never have become a schlock producer.

That said, Lucy just couldn't pull off playing a grandma. Maybe because Lucy had issues about getting old and still insisted on being "glamorous." It wasn't such a bad concept for a show. Too bad they didn't go to the star of two other 50s sitcoms: "Life with Elizabeth" and "Date with the Angels."

Another problem: Lucy had a well deserved reputation for physical comedy. She wasn't that good as a comic actress when you take away props and pratfalls. She also was a terrible executive and ran Desilu into the ground after Desi left. She owes most of her success to Desi. She was funnier with Desi than she ever was later and it was Desi who creates and built the business. After Desi, she just ran on inertia.

 

[ixnay]

(Ball) also was a terrible executive and ran Desilu into the ground after Desi left. She owes most of her success to Desi. She was funnier with Desi than she ever was later and it was Desi who creates and built the business. After Desi, she just ran on inertia.

But Desilu's self-writing logo animation was cool.

ixnay

 

[bpatrick]

Gordon died in 1995 at the age of 91.

That means Gale Gordon was 82 at the time of Lucy's ill-fated Aaron Spelling sit-com "Life With Lucy"...on which Gordon co-starred.

Looking back....It was really very sad to watch Lucy and Gale Gordon try to re-capture the golden glory they shared during the days of CBS' "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy".

Aaron Spelling: THIS WAS YOUR FAULT ! ! !
Secondary fault goes to ABC

Aaron Spelling played a hillbilly in a gas station Lucy, Ricky, Fred and Ethel meet on their cross-country trip to California. If Lucy and Desi had given him more acting he gigs, maybe he'd never have become a schlock producer.

That said, Lucy just couldn't pull off playing a grandma. Maybe because Lucy had issues about getting old and still insisted on being "glamorous." It wasn't such a bad concept for a show. Too bad they didn't go to the star of two other 50s sitcoms: "Life with Elizabeth" and "Date with the Angels."

Another problem: Lucy had a well deserved reputation for physical comedy. She wasn't that good as a comic actress when you take away props and pratfalls. She also was a terrible executive and ran Desilu into the ground after Desi left. She owes most of her success to Desi. She was funnier with Desi than she ever was later and it was Desi who creates and built the business. After Desi, she just ran on inertia.

The best I can say about Desilu in the post-Desi years was Gary Morton's decision (and he really ran the place) to add some dramas. Out of that came "Star Trek," "Mission: Impossible," and "Mannix," not a bad call on Gary's part at all.

 

[FredLeonard]

The best I can say about Desilu in the post-Desi years was Gary Morton's decision (and he really ran the place) to add some dramas. Out of that came "Star Trek," "Mission: Impossible," and "Mannix," not a bad call on Gary's part at all.

Do you have a source for that?

According to Robert Justman and Herbert Solow, "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story," Gary Morton had no real role in running Desilu. Lucy let him build an additional set to keep busy; he messed it up completely, wasted a lot of money and the set was never used.

Lucy is usually credited with the decision to back Star Trek and Mission: Impossible. At the time, Desilu had no shows of its own on the lot except The Lucy Show and was surviving by renting space to others (Danny Thomas-Sheldon Leonard, Bing Crosby Productions, Don Fedderson). Desilu had produced dramas under Desi: The Untouchables and The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp. Sheldon Leonard's I Spy was produced at Desilu. Dramas were not new.

 

[Braves2005]

I just wondered how much control did Lucy have with her kids Lucie and Desi Jr. on Here's Lucy. I know that there were some problems when Desi Jr. was in a relationship with Patty Duke and who the father of her son Sean was and that Lucy didn't like Patty Duke at all and that Desi Jr. left the show after 3 seasons but returned for one show in season 5 (the Joe Namath episode)

 

[BD Sullivan]

Another problem with the 80's Lucy show was that she had the same writers she had back years ago, who wrote the same jokes, with the same situations. In other words, she tried to bring back from the dead a sitcom that had run its course 10-15 years earlier, and with a 75-year-old as its star. It also didn't help that ABC put her on Saturday nights, which was already starting to fade away as a night for a network's best shows--Golden Girls excepted.

 

[FredLeonard]

Interesting point: Lucy might have done OK with a Golden Girls type show. Problem was: Lucy wasn't willing to play her age. Writers weren't writing for a character her age. And Lucy had to be the star. Bea Arthur, in contrast, was a star, too, but she was willing to play in an ensemble.

Gale Gordon was only five years older than Lucy but they never let them play a married couple. If, in the 80s, they'd let him be Ricky instead of Fred, it might have been funny. Lucy needed an equal partner/adversary to play off and she never had that after Ricky. In movie comedies she played off Henry Fonda and Bob Hope but her only real chemistry was with William Holden (Miss Grant Takes Richmond).

 

[firepoint525]

There was also a significant age difference among the actors who played the Howells on Gilligan's Island. Natalie Schafer was significantly older than Jim Backus. I did not find that out until after they both died.

 

[landtuna]

There was also a significant age difference among the actors who played the Howells on Gilligan's Island. Natalie Schafer was significantly older than Jim Backus. I did not find that out until after they both died.

But they both had class!

 

[Corky Marlowe]

Gary Burbank did a bit on WLW that summed up "Life With Lucy". It had her boss (the Gale Gordon character) telling her to get him a can of paint, to which she replied, "Here, let me grab this one from the bottom of the display". The next thing you heard was a big crashing noise and Lucy letting out her patented "Waaaaaahhhh!"

 

[bpatrick]

The best I can say about Desilu in the post-Desi years was Gary Morton's decision (and he really ran the place) to add some dramas. Out of that came "Star Trek," "Mission: Impossible," and "Mannix," not a bad call on Gary's part at all.

Do you have a source for that?

According to Robert Justman and Herbert Solow, "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story," Gary Morton had no real role in running Desilu. Lucy let him build an additional set to keep busy; he messed it up completely, wasted a lot of money and the set was never used.

Lucy is usually credited with the decision to back Star Trek and Mission: Impossible. At the time, Desilu had no shows of its own on the lot except The Lucy Show and was surviving by renting space to others (Danny Thomas-Sheldon Leonard, Bing Crosby Productions, Don Fedderson). Desilu had produced dramas under Desi: The Untouchables and The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp. Sheldon Leonard's I Spy was produced at Desilu. Dramas were not new.

I wish I could remember where I read all that. I know that Gary and Lucy's brother Fred served on Desilu's board of directors, and that it was not unusual during meetings for Lucy to tell Gary to shut up. And it's true that Desilu had produced dramas in the '50s, but, as I recall, Lucy and Gary had decided around 1964 to do some more ("I Spy," as you note, was filmed at Desilu but was not a Desilu production per se). I also know, and you can check Wikipedia on this, that Lucy made artistic contributions to Desilu shows; in the case of "Mannix" it was her idea to drop the first-season computer angle and make it a more traditional detective show, because she didn't think people could relate to computers (probably true in 1967-68 to a point); Gary, on the other hand, chose Mike Connors--both of them were antique-car enthusiasts and while admiring a 1930s car one day, Gary happened to mention a detective show Desilu had coming up that he thought Connors would be perfect for.

I think, based on the information you gave us, and with a second look, that Gary's primary function was to warm up the audiences for Lucy's sitcoms. Thanks for the corrections.

BTW, somebody mentioned another actress who might have had better luck with "Life With Lucy." However, that actress was doing "The Golden Girls" in 1986--that, of course, was Betty White. And I also agree that Lucy would have been smarter to do a show like "The Golden Girls"--more in line with her age, 75 in 1986--but she thought the public wanted to see her as the character she'd played under various names since 1951 (or maybe 1948, with "My Favorite Husband" on radio).