Difficult Stars to Work For or With

[FredLeonard]

The best suggestion I saw to fix "Life With Lucy" came from a TV writer. This was after Bobby Ewing died on Dallas and came back, with the previous season only a dream. The writer said Lucy should dream she's a young housewife, married to a Cuban bandleader in the 50s in New York (and like many people, Lucy would dream in black and white).

In all fairness, except for the occasional horny grandma as a supporting character in sitcoms, there were not sitcoms centered on senior citizen lead characters before Golden Girls and not much since, Betty White's character in Hot In Cleveland is more the "grandma" and not really the lead.

I Love Lucy was the closest Lucy ever came to doing an ensemble show. After that, she always had to be THE STAR. Maybe why the later shows weren't so funny. But to do an ensemble show like Golden Girls, Lucy would need co-stars as strong as she. Maybe Eve Arden.

 

[jwk1979]

Interesting point: Lucy might have done OK with a Golden Girls type show. Problem was: Lucy wasn't willing to play her age. Writers weren't writing for a character her age. And Lucy had to be the star. Bea Arthur, in contrast, was a star, too, but she was willing to play in an ensemble.

I have a couple of DVDs of the "The Lucy Show" and she is much too old to be in the situations her character is placed into during this show, especially the episode "Lucy Gets Drafted". She is a woman in her mid-50s during while this series was being filmed, yet she is mistakenly drafted into the military (at least 20-25 years older than the maxium age of induction during the 60s), yet none of the other recuits seem to notice that she is so much older than they are and go crazy over her. Of course, most of the other recuits were propably in their mid 30s (again too old to be believable) and the Drill Instructor was as old or old than Lucy was in real life(way too old to still be a DI in any branch of service). And from I remember, "Here's Lucy" was as bad or worse.

 

[jwk1979]

Apparently, getting married was enough of an incentive for all of the original "daughters" to appear!

As mentioned, Eve Plumb skipped the variety special(s). Probably a good career move for her!

Susan Olsen missed the Christmas movie.

Maureen McCormick did not appear in The Bradys.

During the variety special (I think it was actually a series because it ran for at least a couple of months), Eve Plumb was doing a lot of made-for-TV movies in which she was playing teen age prostitutes, runaways and drug addicts and wanted to be taken a little more serious than her Jan Brady would allow her to be. Also, with the type of roles she was playing at the time, I'm sure that the producers were looking for a replacement for her since in their mind, Eve Plumb had "Soiled" their image of Jan Brady.

I do beleive Susan Olsen was pregnant during the filming of the Christmas movie, and since Cindy Brady wasn't married in the Christmas Reunion movie, it would be out of character for one of the Brady girls to be with child while unmarried.

 

[Mark Giardina]

I have a couple of DVDs of the "The Lucy Show" and she is much too old to be in the situations her character is placed into during this show, especially the episode "Lucy Gets Drafted". She is a woman in her mid-50s during while this series was being filmed, yet she is mistakenly drafted into the military (at least 20-25 years older than the maxium age of induction during the 60s), yet none of the other recuits seem to notice that she is so much older than they are and go crazy over her. Of course, most of the other recuits were propably in their mid 30s (again too old to be believable) and the Drill Instructor was as old or old than Lucy was in real life(way too old to still be a DI in any branch of service). And from I remember, "Here's Lucy" was as bad or worse.

There is no doubt in the minds of many viewers and critics that ‘I Love Lucy’ was one of the classic shows on television.
The problem is that Lucy keep on using the same type of material for ‘The Lucy Show’ and ‘Here’s Lucy.’ When ‘Life with Lucy’ made its debut on ABC the viewing public finally said the heck with nostalgia. Besides Lucy always seemed to me to be reading cue cards off camera which is ironic from someone with the reputation of being such a perfectionist.

 

[FredLeonard]

Interesting point: Lucy might have done OK with a Golden Girls type show. Problem was: Lucy wasn't willing to play her age. Writers weren't writing for a character her age. And Lucy had to be the star. Bea Arthur, in contrast, was a star, too, but she was willing to play in an ensemble.

I have a couple of DVDs of the "The Lucy Show" and she is much too old to be in the situations her character is placed into during this show, especially the episode "Lucy Gets Drafted". She is a woman in her mid-50s during while this series was being filmed, yet she is mistakenly drafted into the military (at least 20-25 years older than the maxium age of induction during the 60s), yet none of the other recuits seem to notice that she is so much older than they are and go crazy over her. Of course, most of the other recuits were propably in their mid 30s (again too old to be believable) and the Drill Instructor was as old or old than Lucy was in real life(way too old to still be a DI in any branch of service). And from I remember, "Here's Lucy" was as bad or worse.

Speaking of, how about the ages of the guys in Bilko's motor pool platoon (when the show premiered) ....

Pvt. Doberman - 42.
Cpl. Fender - 56.
Pvt. Paparelli - 42.
Pvt. Zimmerman - 38.

Lucy's sergeant, Harry Hickox, was 56 when the show aired (probably still 55 when filmed). He was also the anvil salesman who wants to expose "Professor Hill" as a fraud in "The Music Man." What makes the Lucy episode especially unfunny in context, was all the men being drafted into the Viet Nam conflict when the episode aired (Nov, 1966). Think Lucy in "Full Metal Jacket."
Instead of Lucy goes to Hollywood for a year, they could have really jumped the shark and sent Lucy to 'Nam for a year. Lots of guest star opportunities. Bob Hope. The Duke. ... Private Benjamin ahead of its time.

 

[michael hagerty]

Interesting point: Lucy might have done OK with a Golden Girls type show. Problem was: Lucy wasn't willing to play her age. Writers weren't writing for a character her age. And Lucy had to be the star. Bea Arthur, in contrast, was a star, too, but she was willing to play in an ensemble.

I have a couple of DVDs of the "The Lucy Show" and she is much too old to be in the situations her character is placed into during this show, especially the episode "Lucy Gets Drafted". She is a woman in her mid-50s during while this series was being filmed, yet she is mistakenly drafted into the military (at least 20-25 years older than the maxium age of induction during the 60s), yet none of the other recuits seem to notice that she is so much older than they are and go crazy over her. Of course, most of the other recuits were propably in their mid 30s (again too old to be believable) and the Drill Instructor was as old or old than Lucy was in real life(way too old to still be a DI in any branch of service). And from I remember, "Here's Lucy" was as bad or worse.

Lucy was a brilliant physical comedian.

Her failings were that she didn't want to acknowledge her limitations. She was 40 when "I Love Lucy" began. It was amazing she did what she did then.

She mistook the popularity of "I Love Lucy" as popularity of her character. It was popular, but it needed characters to play off. Fred, Ethel and Ricky each brought a different individual dynamic to the show, and you can see Lucy handle each of them slightly differently as she gets into and out of each mess. By the time we get down to just Gale Gordon, we're only seeing one dimension of Lucy and it burns fast.


Frankly, her best work after "I Love Lucy" were some of the movies and her collaboration with Carol Burnett. Everything else was watching a top spin ever more slowly until it falls over.

 

[Corky Marlowe]

What makes the Lucy episode especially unfunny in context, was all the men being drafted into the Viet Nam conflict when the episode aired (Nov, 1966). Think Lucy in "Full Metal Jacket."

Oooohhh, I can't unhear that now. "Private Carmichael, choke yourself!"

 

[michael hagerty]

What makes the Lucy episode especially unfunny in context, was all the men being drafted into the Viet Nam conflict when the episode aired (Nov, 1966).

With the weekly disconnect of "Gomer Pyle, USMC" (five years in uniform at the height of the Vietnam War and they never left California), I'm sure the Lucy crew didn't even consider that.

 

[rnigma1]

Speaking of, how about the ages of the guys in Bilko's motor pool platoon (when the show premiered) ....

Pvt. Doberman - 42.
Cpl. Fender - 56.
Pvt. Paparelli - 42.
Pvt. Zimmerman - 38.

Lucy's sergeant, Harry Hickox, was 56 when the show aired (probably still 55 when filmed). He was also the anvil salesman who wants to expose "Professor Hill" as a fraud in "The Music Man." What makes the Lucy episode especially unfunny in context, was all the men being drafted into the Viet Nam conflict when the episode aired (Nov, 1966). Think Lucy in "Full Metal Jacket."

Interestingly, "The Music Man" also had Paul Ford, who played Col. Hall in "The Phil Silvers Show." Harry Hickox (in the movie) replaced Paul Reed, who played Charlie Cowell in Broadway's "Music Man." Perhaps Reed was too busy with "Car 54, Where Are You?"

Back to Lucy, yeah, her later sitcoms put her in situations that were more farcical and tended to have only a tenuous link to reality (e.g. the "Iron Man Carmichael" episodes). And many episodes had "idiot plots." I don't recall if it was on a later Lucy Show or Here's Lucy, but the plot was stolen from an Our Gang comedy wherein midget bank robbers posed as children; Lucy and friends were completely taken in by the ruse, despite the dwarves having more wrinkles than a hooker's bedsheet.

 

[landtuna]

Speaking of, how about the ages of the guys in Bilko's motor pool platoon (when the show premiered) ....

Same with "McHale's Navy". The average age of a WWII-era sailor was in the very low 20's yet McHale's crew had only a couple guys who were 30 or under. If that show had been in HD you would have noticed all the wrinkles. Ages as of 1962 (first year of the show):

Ernest Borgnine - 45
Tim Conway - 29
Carl Ballentine - 45
Gary Vinson - 26
Billy Sands - 51
Edson Stroll - 33

Also, McHale was supposedly a seasoned veteran of the South Seas and the pre-war skipper of a cargo ship - totally unqualified to skipper a PT boat. And PT boat skippers were usually LT or LTjg's - never would a LTCDR captain a PT boat. And a full CAPT would not command a single flotilla either.

In order to enjoy the show anyone with U.S. Navy knowledge had to enter a frame of suspended belief. For me, I had known someone just like Joe Flynn in the navy so it was funny despite the idiosyncrasies.

 

[FredLeonard]

Gavin McLeod was 32 when McHale's Navy launched and he had time to command a cruise ship afterwards. ???

 

[Tim L]

Gavin McLeod was 32 when McHale's Navy launched and he had time to command a cruise ship afterwards. ???

Not to mention being head news writer at a medium-market TV station in between.

 

[therealjm12]

As per McHale' s Navy: My Dad served in the Navy in the South Pacific in WWII. He loved the show and maybe just bought the Hollywood B. S. The one thing he said was that P. T. boat sailors were just nuts. They had to be to serve on a floating tub of TNT. When a P. T. boat come into port everyone (including Marines) gave them a wide berth. They were nuts. You didn't want to P. them O.

 

[landtuna]

The one thing he said was that P. T. boat sailors were just nuts. They had to be to serve on a floating tub of TNT.

You could expand that "floating tub of TNT" to include destroyers, ammo ships and oilers as well. A single hit by even a small explosive shell could cause the loss of the ship with a significant number of crew. The advantage that PT boats had was their small size and speed. It was very difficult for planes and other ships to hit them with anything other than small caliber weapons. They did run on high octane aviation gas though so a hit in the fuel tank could be most unpleasant.

 

[Corky Marlowe]

Gavin McLeod was 32 when McHale's Navy launched and he had time to command a cruise ship afterwards. Huh

Not to mention being head news writer at a medium-market TV station in between.

And a Hawaiian crime boss.

 

[BD Sullivan]

What makes the Lucy episode especially unfunny in context, was all the men being drafted into the Viet Nam conflict when the episode aired (Nov, 1966). Think Lucy in "Full Metal Jacket."

Oooohhh, I can't unhear that now. "Private Carmichael, choke yourself!"

Even worse: "Carmichael, the best part of you..."

Not only did Gomer Pyle never leave California, Vietnam never even got a cursory mention.

 

[landtuna]

Not only did Gomer Pyle never leave California, Vietnam never even got a cursory mention.

Of course not. Why would you mention Vietnam in a comedy show?

 

[FredLeonard]

Not only did Gomer Pyle never leave California, Vietnam never even got a cursory mention.

Of course not. Why would you mention Vietnam in a comedy show?

You can mention ...

Korea - MASH
World War II - Hogan's Heroes, McHale's Navy
The Indian Wars - F-Troop

Why not Viet Nam? It worked in "Good Morning, Viet Nam."

Lucy is shipped off to Saigon and assigned to American Forces Radio and to Special Services. Guest stars arrive on USO tours. She's put in a male barracks - Bosom Buddies in reverse.
Gale Gordon plays the commanding general. In the episode Lucy Meets Yul Brynner, Lucy is exposed to agent orange and loses all her hair. In the episode Lucy Meets Raymond Burr, Lucy steps on a land mine. In the episode Lucy Meets Robert Stack, Lucy learns how to fire a machine gun.

 

[michael hagerty]

Not only did Gomer Pyle never leave California, Vietnam never even got a cursory mention.

Of course not. Why would you mention Vietnam in a comedy show?

You can mention ...

Korea - MASH
World War II - Hogan's Heroes, McHale's Navy
The Indian Wars - F-Troop

Why not Viet Nam? It worked in "Good Morning, Viet Nam."

The difference is that the wars in those shows were ancient history.

While it was tone-deaf to avoid Vietnam in 60s military comedies, it would have to be handled carefully because a number of your viewers' sons were coming home in flag-draped coffins or being held captive.

 

[anotherguyTN]

Concerning the ages of cast members in military shows, here are the ages for the cast of MASH (From the beginning of their time on the series until they left or the series ended):

Alan Alda - 36 (1972) to 47 (1983)
Wayne Rogers - 39 (1972) to 42 (1975)
McLean Stevenson - 45 (1972) to 48 (1975)
Loretta Swit - 35 (1972) to 46 (1983)
Larry Linville - 33 (1972) to 38 (1977)
Gary Burghoff - 29 (1972) to 36 (1979) - A little older than most draftees in the beginning, definitely too old at the time he left.
Jamie Farr - 38 (1972) to 49 (1983) - Definitely too old for a draftee, even older than most of the doctors and Margaret Houlihan.
William Christopher - 40 (1972) to 51 (1983)
Mike Farrell - 36 (1975) to 44 (1983)
Harry Morgan - 60 (1975) to 68 (1983)
David Ogden Stiers - 35 (1977) to 41 (1983)

It probably makes sense that most of the doctors and Margaret would possibly be in their 30's or possibly 40's, and their commanding officer could possibly be in his 60's. So their ages are probably close to realistic, but the actual ages of Radar, Klinger, and Father Mulchahy were older than normal, especially in the later years.

Although it's kind of difficult to explain how the characters could age possibly up to 11 years in a 3 year war. :