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Digital delay...why is it soooooooo lengthy?

KML0224

KML0224

Does anybody else at this forum notice extensive digital delay with many cable and local stations?

I have an alarm clock with an atomic clock which resets itself every morning. My watch is always within a second of it and I reset it if it's needed. I notice that Conan always starts at 11:01:00 PM eastern, not at 11:00:00. WTNH-TV channel 8 of New Haven, CT started their carriage of ABC programming tonight at 8:01:05 PM eastern. I could see a few seconds for a delay...but a full minute? It's the same on the analog cable band, since the locals are down converted simulcasts of the digital signal.

It's very similar with radio. WTIC-AM 1080 of Hartford is famous for their "V for Victory" tone on the hour. Lately, it sounds somewhere around xx:00:58. WCBS-AM 880 of New York will hit the CBS News chime on the hour at like xx:01:05.

I know it's not a big deal for most people, but it is for me.
 
Is it actual digital delay, or is it just that more stations are sloppy and/or fudge with the start times of programs than ever before?
They could control it closer if they wanted to, I'd think.
Like setting a thermostat to start the heat a half hour before you come into the office or the house.
If yahoos without technical degrees can do that, it can't be that hard for engineer-types to show master control operators and traffic programmers how to time the delay and make it closer to the TOH if they wanted to.
 
KML-224 said:
I notice that Conan always starts at 11:01:00 PM eastern, not at 11:00:00.
Click to expand...

Conan always starts at the top of the hour, right at 11PM (give or take a couple of seconds.) There has been no time that it started 1 minute late.

quadraphonic said:
If yahoos without technical degrees can do that, it can't be that hard for engineer-types to show master control operators and traffic programmers how to time the delay and make it closer to the TOH if they wanted to.
Click to expand...

Well, it's actually not up to traffic or MCOs on what time shows start, it's up to programming and management. MCOs and Traffic follow procedures sent down from programming, and upper management.
 
KML-224 said:
Does anybody else at this forum notice extensive digital delay with many cable and local stations?

I have an alarm clock with an atomic clock which resets itself every morning. My watch is always within a second of it and I reset it if it's needed. I notice that Conan always starts at 11:01:00 PM eastern, not at 11:00:00. WTNH-TV channel 8 of New Haven, CT started their carriage of ABC programming tonight at 8:01:05 PM eastern. I could see a few seconds for a delay...but a full minute? It's the same on the analog cable band, since the locals are down converted simulcasts of the digital signal.

It's very similar with radio. WTIC-AM 1080 of Hartford is famous for their "V for Victory" tone on the hour. Lately, it sounds somewhere around xx:00:58. WCBS-AM 880 of New York will hit the CBS News chime on the hour at like xx:01:05.

I know it's not a big deal for most people, but it is for me.
Click to expand...

On average I notice seven seconds of delay between the actual raw antenna feed of a television station and that of one on cable via a DVR. The most annoying thing about this is trying to sync my DVR to the radio broadcast for a football game (I refuse to go with Fox announcers and listen to the Packers radio call). But otherwise it depends on many factors, like reception, delivery and processing, and medium aired and processed through, thus the raw antenna feed probably has the least delay. For instance a few cable systems might keep the feed a few seconds behind to make sure their automation gets the local ad break in flawlessly without the awkward "This is a public announce--This week on video on demand" kind of break.

I also go with atomic timing, which is used by my cable DVR and Tivo, and it does average a seven-second delay.
 
notalkallstatic said:
Conan always starts at the top of the hour, right at 11PM (give or take a couple of seconds.) There has been no time that it started 1 minute late...
Click to expand...

And if this were about ten years ago, it would start five minutes late... ::)
 
In the digital world there are significant coding delays. There's ~2sec. of coding delays in the OTA signal for the TV station I work for. The delays get a lot longer via other delivery methods -- ~10sec. for cable and on the order of 30 seconds for satellite.

HD Radio also imposes significant coding delays. Since HD receivers need to be able to blend to analog if the digital signal is lost, the analog audio must be intentionally delayed to match the digital coding delay.
 
mrschimpf said:
On average I notice seven seconds of delay between the actual raw antenna feed of a television station and that of one on cable via a DVR. The most annoying thing about this is trying to sync my DVR to the radio broadcast for a football game (I refuse to go with Fox announcers and listen to the Packers radio call). But otherwise it depends on many factors, like reception, delivery and processing, and medium aired and processed through, thus the raw antenna feed probably has the least delay. For instance a few cable systems might keep the feed a few seconds behind to make sure their automation gets the local ad break in flawlessly without the awkward "This is a public announce--This week on video on demand" kind of break.

I also go with atomic timing, which is used by my cable DVR and Tivo, and it does average a seven-second delay.
Click to expand...


On Charter's digital tuner there is a delay of 5 seconds or more compared to a live local broadcast. I try to listen to the radio broadcast of University of Tennessee football games while watching it on TV, and there are times the radio will be 5 seconds or more later than the TV, and there was a recent discussion about this on the Nashville board. So sometimes there is as much of a problem with a delay on radio as TV.
 
KML-224 said:
WTIC-AM 1080 of Hartford is famous for their "V for Victory" tone on the hour. Lately, it sounds somewhere around xx:00:58.
WCBS-AM 880 of New York will hit the CBS News chime on the hour at like xx:01:05.
Click to expand...

Are you out-of-market(s) and listening on an internet stream? That's often a minute or two
behind real time. But OTA radio? No way will it be a minute late.

If an AM is running I-CRAP ::) it's about a nine-second delay; add a @#$% language delay
and that's another seven. So +/- :16 at most.
 
To answer OLDIESFAN6479: I live in New Britain, CT. I'm definitely in-market with WTIC-AM 1080 and their over-the-air signal. The transmitter is on Avon Mountain near the Avon/West Hartford, CT town line, about 10 miles to my north-northwest or so. Yes, they do run a digital signal, since they ID as "WTIC, WTIC-HD Hartford, a CBS Radio Station." The best way to verify the delay is when they carry Boston Red Sox baseball. The call of the game this past season was always significantly ahead on WEEI-FM 103.7 of Westerly/Providence, RI.

To answer NOTALKALLSTATIC: I can guarantee to you that every episode of Conan here on TBS on Comcast in New Britain, CT has started at 11:01:00 PM eastern so far. I get TBS-HD and the regular 4:3 version of TBS. They're always in sync with each other. I don't use a cable converter, as TBS is one of the few channels I can get in HD besides QVC and the local channels.
 
notalkallstatic said:
Well, it's actually not up to traffic or MCOs on what time shows start, it's up to programming and management. MCOs and Traffic follow procedures sent down from programming, and upper management.
Click to expand...
Yeah I know, I just figured they could somehow work better together to be more accurate, if that was a goal. :)
 
I have noticed this on sports programming when I have the game on TV and also
on a radio in the kitchen. The delay on the TV side has gotten VERY long! Often
I will hear a team score on the radio 4 or 5 seconds before it happens on TV.

In the old days the Pittsburgh Steelers radio network used to urge you to
"turn down the sound, and follow the game with Fleming and Cope". Would be
impossible to do today.
 
KML-224 said:
To answer NOTALKALLSTATIC: I can guarantee to you that every episode of Conan here on TBS on Comcast in New Britain, CT has started at 11:01:00 PM eastern so far. I get TBS-HD and the regular 4:3 version of TBS. They're always in sync with each other. I don't use a cable converter, as TBS is one of the few channels I can get in HD besides QVC and the local channels.
Click to expand...

Well, then it's Comcast that is delaying it (probably due to processing the digital signal) because every epsiode of Conan that leaves the Turner facility starts at the top of the hour (give or take a few seconds.)

quadraphonic said:
Yeah I know, I just figured they could somehow work better together to be more accurate, if that was a goal. :)
Click to expand...

That would be so nice if all departments would work together, it would make everything work more smoothly. ::)
As the quote goes: "People in communications, don't know how to communicate." ;D
 
Some ABC programing starts a :01, it says that on the channel program guide.

And I noticed the local digitals a couple seconds before the analog local channls on cable.
 
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