DIGITAL RADIO IN NEW CARS?

[michael hagerty]

All solid points except that having an AM receiver doesn't mean it will be used. It's tough to find people under 55 who ever tune to AM. That's likely to get worse, as is the noise floor.

If you define death as the very last AM signing off, then, yeah, you might have 20 years, but that final 5-7 is going to be more like walking dead than alive.

There is a great expanse of land between the coasts that cannot be covered by FM due to its shorter range. AM is the only feasible technology there and that goes hand in hand with the sale of F-150's and Chevy and Ram pickups. No way will they take AM out of those vehicles. Out in the boonies AM is perfectly serviceable.

I have AM in my car but never use it unless I am out in those same boonies looking for something to keep me awake. When closer to home I listen to FM HD. But it isn't so much the technology that drives what I listen to, it is the content. There is no content on any AM in my metro area that I want to hear (KOY was the last bastion of good AM radio) so I listen to FM.

If AM dies, and I don't question that it will eventually, it will be because radio station owners let it die. Failure to provide popular content, poor signals, revenues not providing enough profit, antenna farm properties being more valuable for condos than antennas etc. It will probably die first in the major metros but it will take a lot longer out in the sticks because FM cannot replace AM and I don't see cell phones doing so either.

Well, first of all, it's getting a lot harder to find large stretches of road without some FM signal. Especially in the flatter parts of the country, a good FM's liable to reach 100-125 miles. You pretty much need 50kw and a good dial position to do that without noise on AM.

And when you're dealing with someone under 50, if there's no FM, and no reliable data service, they're probably going for the few hundred or thousand songs in their phone (or, if they're retro-friendly, CDs) before they ever punch up AM.

I'm 57, and I haven't listened to an AM station by choice unless I knew it was an exceptionally good station since 1969. And I think the last time I felt that way about an AM station was...a long time ago.

 

[landtuna]

Well, first of all, it's getting a lot harder to find large stretches of road without some FM signal. Especially in the flatter parts of the country, a good FM's liable to reach 100-125 miles. You pretty much need 50kw and a good dial position to do that without noise on AM.

I drove cross country two years ago and the only time I could receive FM was very close to a major city. Nothing at all in between - and this began in TN. The further west I got the fewer cities, and FM's, there were. The single FM that ranged perhaps close to 100 miles was from the Navajo Reservation in northern AZ. None of the others came close. Some of the FM's from South Mountain can get almost to Tucson but the signal isn't very listenable that far out.

The entire midwest and a big portion of the West has a space problem. Too much space and not enough FM repeaters. AM, despite the static and noise, is the only dependable radio technology. The the people living there, mostly in smaller cities, are much more locally focused on their local markets, businesses and weather than us urbanites.

 

[Small Market Guy]

All solid points except that having an AM receiver doesn't mean it will be used. It's tough to find people under 55 who ever tune to AM. That's likely to get worse, as is the noise floor.

If you define death as the very last AM signing off, then, yeah, you might have 20 years, but that final 5-7 is going to be more like walking dead than alive.

There is one big flaw in the "old audience" argument. Everyone gets old. As the AM audience dies off, they are replaced by other old people.

And not all AM talk audiences are old. My average listener is late 30s-mid 40s.

 

[michael hagerty]

All solid points except that having an AM receiver doesn't mean it will be used. It's tough to find people under 55 who ever tune to AM. That's likely to get worse, as is the noise floor.

If you define death as the very last AM signing off, then, yeah, you might have 20 years, but that final 5-7 is going to be more like walking dead than alive.

There is one big flaw in the "old audience" argument. Everyone gets old. As the AM audience dies off, they are replaced by other old people.

And not all AM talk audiences are old. My average listener is late 30s-mid 40s.

You could make a fortune consulting AM talk stations in other markets.

As for the age thing, yes, everyone (who survives long enough) gets old, but I've yet to see evidence that newly old people are taking the place of those who die off on the AM band. It's not about age, it's about habit. People over 60 can remember when radio was AM, and vice versa. Under 50 and you start to find people who never had a favorite station on AM. They grew up with FM.

 

[johndavis]

Under 50 and you start to find people who never had a favorite station on AM. They grew up with FM.

I guess I'm somewhere on that edge. My parents would never spend extra on a car radio; it was always what came standard. Therefore, AM was it until the mid 80's when an AM/FM radio became standard in the car. The two radio stations that defined my youth were FMs, but I listened to the AM simulcast for a few years because, that's what was in mom & dad's car and that's the type of radio we had in the house. But once FM radios were cheap enough for it not to be a luxury, I had one and made the switch. [Related: when we first got a touch tone phone, mom was horrified when dad brought it home because she thought the phone company would still charge an extra $0.35 for tone dialing. Being children of the depression, my folks are still pretty frugal even though they're not poor.]

But if digital radio is going to grow that's how it's going to happen. Once it's no longer an option and it just shows up in your car or what you buy in the store, people will have it and use it. If you want to drive early adopters, you have to give them a reason to buy (different content) but there aren't enough people like me to drive any technology. The real growth comes from getting it standard in OEM products. Ask SiriusXM.

 

[landtuna]

As for the age thing, yes, everyone (who survives long enough) gets old, but I've yet to see evidence that newly old people are taking the place of those who die off on the AM band. It's not about age, it's about habit. People over 60 can remember when radio was AM, and vice versa. Under 50 and you start to find people who never had a favorite station on AM. They grew up with FM.

I still think your reasoning is backwards Michael. The problem isn't so much technology AM vs FM unless we're talking about music radio only and then there is a decided advantage to FM - but rather a content problem. Most younger people, even myself, want to listen to music on the radio. I am not interested in talk shows, how-to-make-me-rich shows, gardening or the latest pork belly futures. That is why I am on FM. If there were content I desired on AM I would listen there (goodbye again KOY) but there isn't.

It is primarily the lack of appropriate content that deters youngsters from listening to AM. And it is getting worse instead of better.

From a broadcasting point of view it seems it is cheaper to operate an FM vs AM (assuming their programming and staffing are similar). No need for a big antenna and not so much co-interference consideration and engineering etc. So not only are the listeners leaving AM, so are the broadcasters.

None of that changes the fact that in the great expanse of this country (which we derisively call "fly over") there is a need for long-range information sources and at the moment that cannot be filled by FM. Perhaps satt will replace it someday but not as long as satt is primarily just music.

 

[landtuna]

The other thing that digital radio needs to do is simplify its tuning. I have a state of the art radio in my new car but tuning in an HD signal is a PITA. People, for generations, have been used to doing nothing more than pushing one button (either search or preset) to get to the signal. Now you have to tune to the base analog station , wait for it to arrive (3-4 seconds on average) then once you get the "HD" icon you can tune once again to select the sub-signal. Although we've had the car 9 months now nobody but me has learned how to tune the radio so it stays on analog FM if I am not in the car.

Tuning isn't difficult but it is different and sometimes trying to select the digital signal results in changing the analog frequency - not a good thing when your attention should be focused on the road ahead.

 

[michael hagerty]

As for the age thing, yes, everyone (who survives long enough) gets old, but I've yet to see evidence that newly old people are taking the place of those who die off on the AM band. It's not about age, it's about habit. People over 60 can remember when radio was AM, and vice versa. Under 50 and you start to find people who never had a favorite station on AM. They grew up with FM.

I still think your reasoning is backwards Michael. The problem isn't so much technology AM vs FM unless we're talking about music radio only and then there is a decided advantage to FM - but rather a content problem. Most younger people, even myself, want to listen to music on the radio. I am not interested in talk shows, how-to-make-me-rich shows, gardening or the latest pork belly futures. That is why I am on FM. If there were content I desired on AM I would listen there (goodbye again KOY) but there isn't.

It is primarily the lack of appropriate content that deters youngsters from listening to AM. And it is getting worse instead of better.

From a broadcasting point of view it seems it is cheaper to operate an FM vs AM (assuming their programming and staffing are similar). No need for a big antenna and not so much co-interference consideration and engineering etc. So not only are the listeners leaving AM, so are the broadcasters.

None of that changes the fact that in the great expanse of this country (which we derisively call "fly over") there is a need for long-range information sources and at the moment that cannot be filled by FM. Perhaps satt will replace it someday but not as long as satt is primarily just music.

Well, here's the problem, Landtuna. Young people tend to like music radio, if they like radio at all. Music doesn't sound as good on AM (even in HD, it's not quite there). So what content can we put on AM that would attract younger listeners and thus save the band?

 

[landtuna]

Well, here's the problem, Landtuna. Young people tend to like music radio, if they like radio at all. Music doesn't sound as good on AM (even in HD, it's not quite there). So what content can we put on AM that would attract younger listeners and thus save the band?

I know the very young are not a major target demo (except for a certain *ahem* large corporation) but Radio Disney used to be a big hit among the pre-teen set. When I was that age I was also listening to "storytime" kinds of shows so they don't seem to have aged out since then.

Recently, KOOL Listener Lauren was talking about a show for older teens and 20-somethings that aired on KUPD (I think). I am not familiar with the show but it was on, apparently, very late at night. If it had any kind of following it may have been a mistake to (a) put it on so late and (b) take it off the air.

I'm not sure you would save the band by attracting more younger listeners and I don't have any magic answers. I was only trying to make the point that AM may not be wanted or needed in metro areas it still provides valuable service to those of us living out in the boonies and it is content, not frequency, that will attract listeners.

Of course, if the AM band is removed from modern stereos, cars and portables then it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it?

 

[johndavis]

Recently, KOOL Listener Lauren was talking about a show for older teens and 20-somethings that aired on KUPD (I think). I am not familiar with the show but it was on, apparently, very late at night. If it had any kind of following it may have been a mistake to (a) put it on so late and (b) take it off the air.

Part of the appeal of Loveline was its frank talk about sex. Safe harbor rules aside, late night seems apropos for the show. I suspect the reason many have dropped the show is more related to the new hosts not being as good as the old ones than PPM smacking the show around.

As for music on AM, it works when it's something you can't get anywhere else. Given the programming choices available in most cities, today that means something like this: http://www.humtumradio.com/media_kit.php

Radio Disney isn't dead (every time whatever teen act that's been created for the Disney channel rolls into my town, the Radio Disney 1580 van is still in front of the venue and their staff are whisking young girls and their moms backstage for a meet & greet) but I suspect the company is now putting more money into mobile apps for that platform and will continue to spin off the AMs when they see the right price.