Digital Sub Channels

[willcail]

Insight Cable in that serves in the Columbus Ohio Suburban Areas does also carries GTN TV23 a low power TV station. Well I won't keep on rehashing the history of GTN. Here's some links:

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSFJ-TV
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W23BZ

WCPX LPTV 48 looks like they are ready to flash cut to digital on UHF TV48. They got permission to build their digital tower and broadcast on UHF 25. I'm guessing that after WCPX LPTV48 finished building their Digital Tower then WSYX will moved to UHF TV48.

It is possible when WCPX get their digital broadcast system up and running, I'll bet that WCPX LP will muticast. Since they also sign up to be a affiliate for Mexicanal, another Latino network.

 

[w9wi]

This time last year I was being told that Charter in Jackson, TN would be all digital by this year by one of their service men that was at my house. So far this hasn't happened though. They have moved several channels to the digital tier, and most of them are in what is called the Digital Home package, which I talked about earlier. I expect them to gradually continue to keep moving more channels into the digital tier until only the local stations are available in analog.

As for digital tuners, I believe that cable systems should be required to supply at least some sort of basic tuner at no extra charge once they have gone all digital. But then they'll probably raise rates to make up for it. I've also wondered why that some sort of basic digital tuner for cable couldn't be made available in stores without having to go through the cable system. I asked if anything like that was available here a while back but never got an answer, so I assumed they don't exist, at least for now.

Since 2005 cable operators are required to allow for the use of tuners provided by third parties - I think the FCC anticipated an independent market for cable boxes but the hardware industry seems to have implemented this as tuners built-in to TV sets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CableCARD

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/News_Releases/1998/nrcb8013.html

http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2008/db1114/DA-08-2513A1.txt (read BACKGROUND near the top of the document)

_________________________________________________

I suspect the weather subchannels in Greensboro+ are being carried as part of a retransmission-consent negotiation. OTA stations may elect either must-carry (which guarantees carriage but doesn't require the cable operator to compensate the station) or retransmission-consent.

(in which the station and the cable operator attempt to negotiate an agreement for cable carriage. The station can ask for compensation (and usually gets *something*) but the possibility exists of an agreement not being reached, at which point the cable operator may drop the station.

This usually results in an agreement being reached post-haste!)

Cable operators have generally refused to to pay cash for their most popular channels. Usually, what they do agree to do is carry another channel, provided by the OTA station. The three largest stations in Nashville have such agreements and they're common in other markets.

 

[kenrayc]

Comcast in Fresno does carry all sub-channel with out a box,But the're not avaible on the analog 2-69 band,you have to have a digital tuner to get them.The sub-channels are available on the "life line" digital package for 12.99 with includes all digital locals and there sub-channel on the same mapped channel as the over the air and also includes WGN on 74.4 ,the Weather channel on 74.7 and Weather scan on 104.10.

 

[rch66]

At some point, analog cable is going away. Verizon already did it and I assume Comcast cannot be far behind so, we're all going to have digital cable and need boxes or a TV that has the ablility to receive digital cable TV. It then doesn't matter is the subchannels are in the teen or 200s where Comcast has them or in the 400s where Verizon puts them.

Cable is in a tight spot I think...they probably want to phase out analog cable but I wonder about how cable will be affected by certain accounts like commercial businesses accounts- think about all those expensive gym treadmills with individual tvs that are just connected to analog cable.

What I see more likely is keeping a few channels, about 20 in analog which are picked up from digital sources that just locals and PI, and then move ESPNs and all the basics, distant stations, to digital box/cable card only. In Trenton, Comcast moved many of the New York TV stations to digital only.

 

[kenrayc]

Comcast- Fresno in recent months moved Game show Net,Hallmark, and ION to digital only.What I think there doing is slowly fazing out the cable networks off of analog ,eventialy elinimating ch.14-99 from analog and keeping 2-13 analog for full power local stations only.

 

[ROBGv1]

Are the Sub Channels must carries or are the optional because in Rhode Island Verizon carries the sub channels but Cox does not.

 

[dhett]

Only the primary subchannel is must-carry; additional subchannels are not. However, ION Media and Urban Television are trying to change that through the issuance of a shared-time license. The FCC hasn't made a decision yet, but naturally, the National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA), the cable lobby, is against it.

 

[markwooldridge]

Cable is in a tight spot I think...they probably want to phase out analog cable but I wonder about how cable will be affected by certain accounts like commercial businesses accounts- think about all those expensive gym treadmills with individual tvs that are just connected to analog cable.

I therefore see a market in digital to analog converters for cable where the digital signal comes in and an analog signal is put out on say, 12-20 channels. That business then carries those analog channels locally and they get to pick the 12-20 channels their clients will want to watch. I bet not many people will want to work out to the History Channel, but certainly they'd have the Big 4 broadcast, a couple of news, sports, music and lifestyle channels in that gym. The alternative is to have analog up to say, 20 and everything above that goes byebye but for businesses who still need an analog solution, a locally installed digital-analog converter may well be the way to go.

They do this already with Freeview in the UK: equipment is sold for hotels where the hotel owners get to choose X number of Freeview (or Sky TV) channels that get piped around locally on analog. The TVs are then tuned to the appropriate broadcast UHF channel (21-69).

 

[Madmansam]

Comcast in Fresno does carry all sub-channel with out a box,But the're not avaible on the analog 2-69 band,you have to have a digital tuner to get them.The sub-channels are available on the "life line" digital package for 12.99 with includes all digital locals and there sub-channel on the same mapped channel as the over the air and also includes WGN on 74.4 ,the Weather channel on 74.7 and Weather scan on 104.10.

I have a neighbor who only subscribes to the Cheap BASIC CABLE SERVICE from COMCAST (The one with Local Sacramento And Long Distance Bay Area TV Stations and Public Access) and has it hooked up without a Cable Box directly to her HDTV and she is able to receive the Digital Sub Channels on all of the Local Sacramento TV Stations, however can't with the Long Distance Bay Area TV Stations.

 

[jegrant]

Only the primary subchannel is must-carry; additional subchannels are not. However, ION Media and Urban Television are trying to change that through the issuance of a shared-time license. The FCC hasn't made a decision yet, but naturally, the National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA), the cable lobby, is against it.

If the ION/Urban deal goes through, I'd expect to see a LOT of similar agreements done. How about TBN doing a similar deal with the Word Network?

 

[w9wi]

If the ION/Urban deal goes through, I'd expect to see a LOT of similar agreements done. How about TBN doing a similar deal with the Word Network?

I think the chances the FCC will buy this are very small. Not zero, but very small.

In the past, when two (or more) stations have shared time on a frequency, one would operate for several hours and then go silent for a few hours & let the other station operate.

(actually, usually there's only one transmitter, the multiple stations share use of that transmitter)

Best I can tell, what ION/Urban have in mind is to share time in terms of 188-byte transport stream packets. This packet is part of one of ION's video stream, the next one is part of Urban's audio, etc., etc... As far as the viewer is concerned, both stations are on the air continuously.

I give them an A for creativity!

 

[justthenumbers]

I think cable companies would be more likely to put the sub-channels on a non-digital tier if they could work out ad sales agreements with the broadcasters...i.e. the cable company will carry the channel on a more favorable dial position, in exchange for the ability to sell the local ad time. This could mean the cable company doing the ad sales only for the homes that watch the channel over the system (i.e. the homes watching on cable would see different local ads than the ones watching over the air), or it could be for all homes that receive the channel, whether it's through cable, satellite, or over the air.

 

[jegrant]

If the ION/Urban deal goes through, I'd expect to see a LOT of similar agreements done. How about TBN doing a similar deal with the Word Network?

I think the chances the FCC will buy this are very small. Not zero, but very small.

In the past, when two (or more) stations have shared time on a frequency, one would operate for several hours and then go silent for a few hours & let the other station operate.

(actually, usually there's only one transmitter, the multiple stations share use of that transmitter)

Best I can tell, what ION/Urban have in mind is to share time in terms of 188-byte transport stream packets. This packet is part of one of ION's video stream, the next one is part of Urban's audio, etc., etc... As far as the viewer is concerned, both stations are on the air continuously.

I give them an A for creativity!

That's why I find it so interesting, it is indeed one of the most creative technical proposals in a while. And, it does seem to serve a stated goal of the FCC, that they want to increase minority ownership.

 

[JeeperOne]

Hi everyone:

There are a lot of niche cable networks that cable systems can do away with. I'm look at you Fox Reality Channel.

Yeah but then again the cable operator can always open up a new channel (Especially if they GET RID of the networks that are on MORE THAN ONE channel. I'm looking at Y*O*U MSNBC).

Comcast has MSNBC on Channel 65 on Basic & Channel 129 on Digital here in Denver.

The same holds true for NFL Network on Comcast in Denver as well as they're on Channels 168 (Where the sports packages ARE NOT generally located) & 417 (Where the sports packages ARE generally located).

And here's the kicker about the NFL Network channels - BOTH of them are DIGITAL channels. Now is that weird or what?

Surely SOMETHING could be done with two of these three channels (65, 129 & 168) since it would sense to keep the NFL Network on channel 417.

That something being ADDING A NEW CHANNEL perhaps? Or dumping two of those three altogether?

As for the other league-owned networks....

TheMtn is on channel 411 (TheMtn being the official network of the Mountain West Conference)
NBA TV is on Channel 416
NHL Network is on Channel 419
MLB Network is on Channel 420

Need I say more there?

I wonder how many other cable systems have networks on MORE THAN ONE channel where at least one of them could be put to better use. This would be an interesting discussion.

Cheers

Pat

 

[JeeperOne]

Hi everyone:

Cable is in a tight spot I think...they probably want to phase out analog cable but I wonder about how cable will be affected by certain accounts like commercial businesses accounts- think about all those expensive gym treadmills with individual tvs that are just connected to analog cable.

I therefore see a market in digital to analog converters for cable where the digital signal comes in and an analog signal is put out on say, 12-20 channels. That business then carries those analog channels locally and they get to pick the 12-20 channels their clients will want to watch. I bet not many people will want to work out to the History Channel, but certainly they'd have the Big 4 broadcast, a couple of news, sports, music and lifestyle channels in that gym. The alternative is to have analog up to say, 20 and everything above that goes byebye but for businesses who still need an analog solution, a locally installed digital-analog converter may well be the way to go.

But if you're a sports bar, you wouldn't need this anyway if you had sets cable of decoding a digital picture all over the place (Which I'm sure you would if you wanted to keep customers happy & stay in business).

Let's also not forget they undoubtedly get just about every package & PPV event out there (NHL Center Ice, MLB Extra Innings, PPV Boxing & Wrestling, NBA League Pass, etc).

About the only thing they would need a dish for would be to receive NFL Sunday Ticket (Thank you NFL for your *ahem* "kind" fan appreciation - NOT!).

Just my $02 worth....

Cheers

Pat

 

[tripinva]

The same holds true for NFL Network on Comcast in Denver as well as they're on Channels 168 (Where the sports packages ARE NOT generally located) & 417 (Where the sports packages ARE generally located).

And here's the kicker about the NFL Network channels - BOTH of them are DIGITAL channels. Now is that weird or what?

Keep in mind that in the world of digital, you can have the exact same video/audio mapped to different channel numbers. So even though it's in two places, they may not be actually carrying it twice; it may be pointing to the exact same stream for both.

In which case, dropping the mapping of one adds room for exactly zero extra channels.

- Trip