• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Digital TV in bad weather

I can't remember if this subject ever had a separate thread.

Anyway, there have been numerous discussions about how for those without cable or satellite, over-the-air digital TV is useless when you need it for weather bulletins. Especially if you happen to be watching low-VHF.

At one time, I had never had serious problems with the digital channels I pick up during thunderstorms. One time, though, I was gone and taped "The Simpsons" and during a storm that caused significant damage just north of here, I could see a lot of pixillation as I rewound. I could tell I had seen both episodes. Skip over the next two paragraphs unless you want to ask me why about anything related just to "The Simpsons".

I rewind while watching because one TV/VCR I had would misbehave if it rewound at full speed, plus I can see certain details that tell me if I have seen an episode. I have a new TV/VCR (used) which has fewer problems, but disconnecting the old TV and hooking up the new one has introduced signal problems I didn't have before. That's on another thread. At long last, I believe I have solved those problems at least on the channel with "The Simpsons", which I keep the TV on so I can always be sure of recording that show. I can't set the channel I record any more. Equipment that would do so with a digital channel costs too much. My TiVo only works with cable or satellite, but the vast majority of my recording off cable is TiVo now.

Why go to all this trouble? The station with "The Simpsons" is not on my cable system, though where I live, the stations from that market are actually clearer over the air than the ones on the cable system. And the station on the cable system that airs "The Simpsons" airs only the same few episodes over and over. The other station airs episodes I haven't seen in years and can't remember seeing, so I actually enjoy them like it's the first time.

Now, on to the topic at hand: last week, after having solved new signal problems that resulted when I hooked up a new TV, I had significant pixilation during Ida's winds and rain. Should we have this much trouble even with distant stations? In good weather this station is perfect. Bad weather is when we NEED it. Although many of us just enjoy TV and wouldn't want this. Channel 8 was acting up too, and I get that on yet another converter box so I don't have to change channels (for a local show not on cable). It's not as perfect but the antenna has less gain.

Cable was the only option for me when I found out it would be necessary for recording certain shows, and I knew I'd have trouble with the stations I get that way otherwise. I have had little or no trouble with the broadcast channels on cable. I get the cheapest package. But if bad weather is going to cause this much trouble, I NEED cable.

Pixilation, for those who don't know, doesn't just mess up the picture. If it happens, the sound messes up the sound too. Why can't sound still be on when there are signal problems? Sound was often perfect on analog TV when the picture was bad.
 
Interestingly, unlike analog, DTV's sound goes off first, before video, if the signal becomes marginal.

Still waiting on that "big DTV improvement" discovery. :mad:
 
I was watching This Old House Hour last saturday, on PBS they had a clip on a guy who had problems receiving DTV, he had to get a $100 or more outdoor tv antenna ,chimney mast mound with no rotor, used cable tv coax to the tv..he only got 3 channels with rabbit ears,now he gets 20 channels booming in.there was a web site mentioned they use to get info on the stations and it tells what size antenna to get,I miss the info on that.
 
WPPCProductions said:
I was watching This Old House Hour last saturday, on PBS they had a clip on a guy who had problems receiving DTV, he had to get a $100 or more outdoor tv antenna ,chimney mast mound with no rotor, used cable tv coax to the tv..he only got 3 channels with rabbit ears,now he gets 20 channels booming in.there was a web site mentioned they use to get info on the stations and it tells what size antenna to get,I miss the info on that.



The site is www.antennaweb.org/ just put in your zip code and it tells you what size and type of antenna for each station in your area.
 
vchimpanzee said:
Pixilation, for those who don't know, doesn't just mess up the picture. If it happens, the sound messes up the sound too. Why can't sound still be on when there are signal problems? Sound was often perfect on analog TV when the picture was bad.

In analog TV, the sound and picture were broadcast by separate transmitters. If the picture signal faded, the sound could still work.*

In digital TV, the sound and picture are broadcast together, by the same transmitter, and as part of the same datastream. You can't get one without the other. I don't see a way the sound could go away without the picture signal being lost -- but most receivers will freeze the last valid frame when the signal is lost, so you may not notice a quick interruption of the picture.

* there still had to be some picture signal present; for obscure technical reasons involving receiver circuitry, if the picture signal vanished altogether so would the sound.
 
w9wi said:
I don't see a way the sound could go away without the picture signal being lost -- but most receivers will freeze the last valid frame when the signal is lost, so you may not notice a quick interruption of the picture.

You are correct. The last frame is indeed frozen (or may be choppy) when the sound either disappears altogether or is also choppy.
 
WPPCProductions said:
I was watching This Old House Hour last saturday, on PBS they had a clip on a guy who had problems receiving DTV, he had to get a $100 or more outdoor tv antenna ,chimney mast mound with no rotor, used cable tv coax to the tv..he only got 3 channels with rabbit ears,now he gets 20 channels booming in.there was a web site mentioned they use to get info on the stations and it tells what size antenna to get,I miss the info on that.

I saw that episode as well on WTTW Prime (subchannel programmed with 24 hour prime time programed by WTTW). Digital doesn't penetrate homes as well. My home didn't get much of analog either. The antenna I have was one I bought in 2002, after the original antenna I bought fell to the ground. After getting it installed, and properly hooked up this year, after my work schedule made it difficult before, I got most of my analog stations in well (WBBM-TV came in better on analog 2 than WMAQ-TV on analog 5). With digital, I received everything, including WBBM-TV on DT-3 with almost no trouble. The biggest improvement was WYIN TV. I could never get them clearly on analog 56, unless I had the antenna pointed in the direction of their transmitter, which was impossible, due to my pole can't support a rotator, and my antenna is way too heavy to even try & use a rotator. My antenna is also bulkier than the one shown on the episode of This Old House, since the VHF elements are in a vertical "V" shape, and not a "T" shape. With WYIN on DT 17, I could get them in clearly, and don't need my antenna pointed toward their transmitter, since my VHF/UHF antenna is always pointed toward Chicago.

I used antennaweb.org to get approximate estimates on which direction to point my antenna. Since the John Hancock & Sears Tower are only about 3° apart from my home, I could choose to point my antenna at either the John Hancock, Sears Tower, or in between. I chose the Sears Tower, as the John Hancock only has 2 full power TV stations (since WBBM-TV found it cheaper to acquire WTTW's old antenna on the Sears Tower than to rebuild their facilities on the John Hancock), while everyone else is on the Sears Tower.

As for digital in bad weather; I still have problems with certain stations, and all of those stations are on the Sears Tower on the UHF, and not either of the 2 VHF stations. The channels I still have problems (but not as much as when analog was shutoff) are WCIU (27.1 PSIP 26.1, and all subchannels, WMAQ-TV (29.1 PSIP 5.1 and subchannels), WJYS (36.1 PSIP 62.1 and subchannel), WCPX (43.1 PSIP 38.1 and subchannels), WSNS (45.1 PSIP 44.1), & WTTW (47.1 PSIP 11.1 & subchannels). I at times have trouble with WYIN-DT (17.1 PSIP 56.1) during bad weather, though they're at a different transmitter site. I had little trouble with WBBM-TV on DT 3 (for most who had trouble getting channels 2-6 used the wrong antenna), and still have no trouble since they moved to channel 12. I also never had trouble getting WLS-TV since they moved their digital to 7. WLS-TV added channel 44 as a way for people to get them, since most people had only UHF antennas, when Chicago has always been a VHF/UHF market, including during the transition period. WLS-TV still operates on channel 7, but it's now a translator, but a full market translator, which I didn't think could happen. When WLS-TV had their digital on 52, I had problems with that station all the time. If 52 wouldn't have been out of core, I don't know if WLS-TV would have stayed on 52, and not return to 7.
 
While not exactly a "bad weather" event yesterday I was fiddling around with my indoor loop/ears on RF 10. I found that by standing directly between the antenna and the tower I can bring it in perfectly! That is unusual because on the other two VHF's here in Phoenix standing between the antenna and tower results in a significant decrease of signal strength.

And before anyone asks....I do tend to cover up the whole antenna (but I'm going to get back on that exercise bike one of these days). ;)
 
Last week I had significant pixilation in "Simpsons" episodes on channel 48 two nights. I really don't know the explanation. One possibility is that the cable going in to the converter box is coming loose. I found on the nights the signal was perfect that it had snow. That is a problem solved by pushing on the cable leaving the converter box, though it was never a problem with my old TV. And yet it clears up on its own too. I should add I rewind through the episodes to figure out if I've seen them, and these days I usually have. But one episode I wasn't sure about was messed up. At least even in this situation I can accomplish the one thing.

Monday night it was drizzling, which shouldn't cause a problem. It was bad when it was windy and raining. Thursday was also bad, though I heard someone say it was windy. But Wednesday, when the temperature warmed up during the night and some people had severe weather, no problems at all.

This is a converter box that gave me few problems during the summer, until I moved the thing and the cable coming from the antenna got re-oriented. It took me weeks to get it back to normal.

Now I had no problems last Monday with channel 51. I've never had any problem with 51 whatsoever. Even on the second converter box which wouldn't pick up hardly anything on June 14. Channel 48 has mostly performed perfectly as well. Channel 45 did the best of all the stations during the summer because I never watched 51, but lately channel 45 will pixilate even when channel 48 does not.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom