DIRECTIONAL PATTERNS

[radioman148]

Did WKBW make it down to Florida during it's music years?

That's a good question because WKBW was the first ever station I DXed when I was a kid with my brand new AM/FM mono portable radio I got for Christmas back in 1972 in New Jersey. In the spring of 73, we went on vacation to Miami Beach and I still remember how good WABC came in there at night on my radio. I also remember looking for WKBW there but couldn't hear a thing. Now, I see why.

Here is a map of the WKBW signal coverage........

(click on "signal coverage")

http://wkbwradio.com/page2.htm

I'm sure that they could've been heard down there in the 60s & 70s.

 

[radioman148]

Interesting thread! My nominee would be WFNI (the old WIBC) on 1070 in Indianapolis. 50000 watts day covering most of Indiana, 10000 watts night with a null everywhere but southeast. In Lafayette, 60 miles away, I could get CHOK in Sarnia ONT blasting in and almost completely obliterating WIBC. Same is true even as close as SR 32 north of town. Not hard to understand why they took the WIBC programming to FM. The 1070 signal is heard well everywhere southeast, and I heard them once from Myrtle Beach on a Walkman.

There are four 1520 daytimers in Northern Ohio, two only 30 miles apart (Kent and Canton), which have tight directional patterns.

1380 in Tampa was mentioned..when it was WLCY I could hear it mixed with others including WAOK Atlanta in Western Ohio. This was after WMEE, Ft Wayne's pattern change. I could listen to it easily in Sarasota, however.

In those days WOWO was very weak with lots of fading at night in Chicago, but on the east coast they were very strong before they got neutered by WLIB.

WTVN is almost nowhere to be found in the Dayton area at night but they have a good signal north.

WOWO, even before the power downgrade, kicked tail all over the Eastern U.S., but as close in as Logansport to the west, was gone at sunset.

This is a very interesting subject.

I remember one family trip to Chicago in the early 90s, back when WOWO still played music. Starting in Columbus, we took 70 to Indy, then went north off 65. Listened to WOWO the entire way, but we were on 65 when it got dark and all of a sudden WOWO came in and out furiously. Had no idea why it was so bad until I saw the directional pattern some years later. That explained why it never came in in Chicago at night. It was faint where we were (Naperville), but it was there. Somehow.
WTVN can be heard well into Central Michigan at night if not beyond.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Interesting thread! My nominee would be WFNI (the old WIBC) on 1070 in Indianapolis. 50000 watts day covering most of Indiana, 10000 watts night with a null everywhere but southeast. In Lafayette, 60 miles away, I could get CHOK in Sarnia ONT blasting in and almost completely obliterating WIBC. Same is true even as close as SR 32 north of town. Not hard to understand why they took the WIBC programming to FM. The 1070 signal is heard well everywhere southeast, and I heard them once from Myrtle Beach on a Walkman.

There are four 1520 daytimers in Northern Ohio, two only 30 miles apart (Kent and Canton), which have tight directional patterns.

1380 in Tampa was mentioned..when it was WLCY I could hear it mixed with others including WAOK Atlanta in Western Ohio. This was after WMEE, Ft Wayne's pattern change. I could listen to it easily in Sarasota, however.


WTVN is almost nowhere to be found in the Dayton area at night but they have a good signal north.

WOWO, even before the power downgrade, kicked tail all over the Eastern U.S., but as close in as Logansport to the west, was gone at sunset.

This is a very interesting subject.

In the Chicago area I used to listen to WOWO alot before the 1200 in Chicago came on. WOWO put a nice signal here in the day, but at night you could hardly hear it.
Earlier I mentioned the old KRLA in Pasadena, Ca on 1110. They ran 50KW days & 20KW at night. Their nighttime pattern nulled to the east.
One of the DJs in the late 60s would actually say at sunset pattern changing time "well goodbye San Bernardino".

And a DJ on 1360 WSAI Cincinnati would sometimes say Hello Atlanta right after pattern change.

Another worthy mention is WNDE 1260 in Indy. At night, they are gone at 38th & Lafayette Road. And that's not cornfield country...it's very populated. In spite of that, they pulled great night ratings in their top 40 days.

 

[cyberdad]

Interesting thread! My nominee would be WFNI (the old WIBC) on 1070 in Indianapolis. 50000 watts day covering most of Indiana, 10000 watts night with a null everywhere but southeast.

I had been thinking of this one myself. And then WNDE 1260. When I was living in the Quad Cities in the early and mid 70s WNDE was a regular after the local 1270 signed off.....which itself was an easier nighttime catch in Atlanta than 20 miles northeast of its stick.

 

[gar hi]

I'm sure that they could've been heard down there in the 60s & 70s.

Well, you may be right depending on how conditions vary and on a good night, WKBW may have been heard but all I'm saying is how my very limited attempts got nothing. Unlike even the average directional station, they really focus their signal in one general direction.

I really miss those old days from up north as a kid where WKBW, CKLW, and WLS were what I listened to at night. Sometimes, CKLW would come in so good, you'd think it was local.

 

[Nightpattern]

WTVN would virtually disappear in Grove City, just 6 miles directly to the west of their array. It was amazing to be looking at their six towers all lit up and be hardly able to pick them up. But I can remember picking TVN up well in central Michigan at night.

WMNI in Columbus also has a very tight directional signal day or night. You can drive right by the towers on I-71 in Grove City and go in and out of the signal.

Columbus was really shortchanged with AM back in the day. Of the 7 AMs, 3 used to sign off and the rest were really directional at night except for good old 1230 WCOL. Probably one of the most successful graveyard signals in the 60's and 70's.

 

[radioman148]

I'm sure that they could've been heard down there in the 60s & 70s.

Well, you may be right depending on how conditions vary and on a good night, WKBW may have been heard but all I'm saying is how my very limited attempts got nothing. Unlike even the average directional station, they really focus their signal in one general direction.

I really miss those old days from up north as a kid where WKBW, CKLW, and WLS were what I listened to at night. Sometimes, CKLW would come in so good, you'd think it was local.

In the 60s & 70s I could hardly ever hear WKBW in the Chicago area. KOMA always blew it away. However when I drove east it came in well once
I'd get past eastern Ohio into Pennsylvania.

 

[swfl]

In the area that I grew up in NE Ohio CKLW blasted in as local both day and night. They were directional toward the east and that signal came right across Lake Erie into NE Ohio. It was actually an easier catch than many of the Cleveland stations at night. WIXY 1260 which was the big Top 40 station then was only 5,000 watts I believe and highly directional at night. We could receive it but CKLW actually came in much clearer most nights. In my area CKLW was actually the more listen to Top 40 station and I believe a big reason was the great reception.

Many of the Cleveland station had the same directional problem that WIXY did. It seemed many of the stations were very directional N/S which cut out many of the far eastern areas at night. While you could receive them the quality of the reception was not the always the best. The best Cleveland stations for 24/7 reception were of course the tow 50,000 watts stations, WKYC/KYW 1100 and WGAR 1220.

Picking up WLS and WMAQ from Chicago was very easy most nights also. Another easy catch back then was WOWO out of Ft Wayne.

 

[BRNout]

In the 60s & 70s I could hardly ever hear WKBW in the Chicago area. KOMA always blew it away. However when I drove east it came in well once
I'd get past eastern Ohio into Pennsylvania.

That's very interesting, because I have yet to confirm reception of what is now KOKC (the sorry remnant of once-great KOMA) from the Chicago area. Have gotten a weak signal of it from downstate IL, but nothing up here. Another victim of the crowded band syndrome, I suppose.

WKBW has a very tight directional signal and you probably wouldn't get it until you got into eastern Ohio/western PA. After that (going east), it was probably a ton of bricks. It would boom into New England, the Mid Atlantic states and eastern Canada like a ton of bricks. Basically, it's as if they're aiming about 100 kw to the east-northeast (because the directional actually leans slightly north of east). So, an incredible signal eastward - probably getting way out to Iceland and Ireland too.

However, most of Florida is too far west (believe it or not) to be able to pick them up after dark. As I said, I got KOMA and - at the time - I was actually looking for WKBW. Now, there are probably several other stations on that frequency (including a couple of 250 watters in Florida) that would foil attempts to ID them from FL.

 

[Icangelp]

In the Chicago area I used to listen to WOWO alot before the 1200 in Chicago came on. WOWO put a nice signal here in the day, but at night you could hardly hear it.
Earlier I mentioned the old KRLA in Pasadena, Ca on 1110. They ran 50KW days & 20KW at night. Their nighttime pattern nulled to the east.
One of the DJs in the late 60s would actually say at sunset pattern changing time "well goodbye San Bernardino".

I'll nit pick. KRLA was 50 KW days and 10 KW nights during the R&R days. Different directions day and night. I think it was Disney that moved the transmitter site and upgraded the signal to 20 KW.

As I recall, KRLA was forced to maintain a directional antenna days in order to protect 1130 KHZ in San Diego. I believe their 10 KW at night and their restrictive night pattern towards the east was a result of an unjustified interference complaint from KFAB in Omaha. I assume protecting 1130 KHZ at night was also a consideration.

Been a while, but I used to drive up I-69 towards Fort Wayne & WFNI's (then WIBC) day signal would really fade. Same with due north and in southwest Indiana.

By the way, did WFNI/WIBC change their daytime pattern in the last 20 years? I seem to remember seeing an ad that showed the signal aimed due east and with a broader pattern.

 

[radioman148]

In the 60s & 70s I could hardly ever hear WKBW in the Chicago area. KOMA always blew it away. However when I drove east it came in well once
I'd get past eastern Ohio into Pennsylvania.

That's very interesting, because I have yet to confirm reception of what is now KOKC (the sorry remnant of once-great KOMA) from the Chicago area. Have gotten a weak signal of it from downstate IL, but nothing up here. Another victim of the crowded band syndrome, I suppose.

WKBW has a very tight directional signal and you probably wouldn't get it until you got into eastern Ohio/western PA. After that (going east), it was probably a ton of bricks. It would boom into New England, the Mid Atlantic states and eastern Canada like a ton of bricks. Basically, it's as if they're aiming about 100 kw to the east-northeast (because the directional actually leans slightly north of east). So, an incredible signal eastward - probably getting way out to Iceland and Ireland too.

However, most of Florida is too far west (believe it or not) to be able to pick them up after dark. As I said, I got KOMA and - at the time - I was actually looking for WKBW. Now, there are probably several other stations on that frequency (including a couple of 250 watters in Florida) that would foil attempts to ID them from FL.

KOMA was an easy catch in the Chicago area on 1520 in the 60s & 70s. The clutter on the frequency has changed that.

 

[schmave]

In the area that I grew up in NE Ohio CKLW blasted in as local both day and night. They were directional toward the east and that signal came right across Lake Erie into NE Ohio. It was actually an easier catch than many of the Cleveland stations at night. WIXY 1260 which was the big Top 40 station then was only 5,000 watts I believe and highly directional at night. We could receive it but CKLW actually came in much clearer most nights. In my area CKLW was actually the more listen to Top 40 station and I believe a big reason was the great reception.

Many of the Cleveland station had the same directional problem that WIXY did. It seemed many of the stations were very directional N/S which cut out many of the far eastern areas at night. While you could receive them the quality of the reception was not the always the best. The best Cleveland stations for 24/7 reception were of course the tow 50,000 watts stations, WKYC/KYW 1100 and WGAR 1220.

Picking up WLS and WMAQ from Chicago was very easy most nights also. Another easy catch back then was WOWO out of Ft Wayne.

1220 out of Cleveland is quite directional; it sends most of its signal east but almost none west. Even at night it is a tough catch in Columbus; I remember trying to hear the Indians on that station back in the mid-90s.
It was quite weak even as close as Lorain County in those days, too. Don't know if that's still the case today.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I know a couple of examples.

WPTF in Raleigh, NC had a caller saying he was having trouble hearing the signal on the north end of town. The host said they pick us up real well in Cuba.

I have also picked up WPTF in the N.C. mountains at night just a few miles east of another station at 680.

WFNZ610 in Charlotte had trouble being heard in certan parts of town before sunrise, but they had listeners in Myrtle Beach that same time of day. I remember that from about 10 years ago. They could have improved the signal since then.

 

[BRNout]

I know a couple of examples.

WPTF in Raleigh, NC had a caller saying he was having trouble hearing the signal on the north end of town. The host said they pick us up real well in Cuba.

I have also picked up WPTF in the N.C. mountains at night just a few miles east of another station at 680.

I picked up WPTF here in the Chicago area just a few weeks ago, when WSCR was kind enough to shut off their Acme-brand "lil' Stalin" broadcast jammer (a.k.a. IBOC). Without that noise, WPTF came in well enough for a pretty clear ID.

 

[radioman148]

I know a couple of examples.

WPTF in Raleigh, NC had a caller saying he was having trouble hearing the signal on the north end of town. The host said they pick us up real well in Cuba.

I have also picked up WPTF in the N.C. mountains at night just a few miles east of another station at 680.

I picked up WPTF here in the Chicago area just a few weeks ago, when WSCR was kind enough to shut off their Acme-brand "lil' Stalin" broadcast jammer (a.k.a. IBOC). Without that noise, WPTF came in well enough for a pretty clear ID.

I used to pick up WPTF regularly in Chicago before WSCR's IBOC. Now I don't even try.

 

[cyberdad]

KOMA was an easy catch in the Chicago area on 1520 in the 60s & 70s. The clutter on the frequency has changed that.

I'll confirm that. Although there'd usually be splatter from the stronger signals from adjacent WLAC and WCKY. About 250 miles west-southwest in Iowa where I went to college, KOMA was a regular nighttime listen (along with KAAY, XERF, WABC, and a few others). I had an old Halicrafters multi-band rig mounted next to a steel pipe and got a great signal from KOMA even though I was a little to the east of most of their juice was going. And....tight pattern or no....WKBW was underneath KOMA on a very regular basis (although never strong enough to ride over it).

1520 out of Oke City (whatever the hell it is now) is still do-able in the Chicago area, but it now takes a little trying to pull it out of the slop. Try it right before they go to the nighttime pattern.

 

[radioman148]

KOMA was an easy catch in the Chicago area on 1520 in the 60s & 70s. The clutter on the frequency has changed that.

I'll confirm that. Although there'd usually be splatter from the stronger signals from adjacent WLAC and WCKY. About 250 miles west-southwest in Iowa where I went to college, KOMA was a regular nighttime listen (along with KAAY, XERF, WABC, and a few others). I had an old Halicrafters multi-band rig mounted next to a steel pipe and got a great signal from KOMA even though I was a little to the east of most of their juice was going. And....tight pattern or no....WKBW was underneath KOMA on a very regular basis (although never strong enough to ride over it).

1520 out of Oke City (whatever the hell it is now) is still do-able in the Chicago area, but it now takes a little trying to pull it out of the slop. Try it right before they go to the nighttime pattern.

You caught WKBW more than I did. I was only able to hear it once or twice in the Chicago area. KOMA always dominated at my QTH.

 

[jd]

1520 out of Oke City (whatever the hell it is now) is still do-able in the Chicago area, but it now takes a little trying to pull it out of the slop.

The old top-40 KOMA, now KOKC, was one of my favorites (along with WLS) when I was in high school in the Dallas area. A pretty good signal during the day, but at night it became a lot more interesting: www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KOKC&service=AM&status=L&hours=N Check out that little "spike" pointed toward the south; in my hometown of Irving, just west of Dallas, the signal was sometimes fairly steady on the east side of town. Just a few miles to the west though, KOMA would suffer severe fading. At the time I was an avid short-wave listener so I was used to very long, very deep fading; with its high dial position the KOMA sky-wave signal behaved just like many trans-oceanic stations. Fact is, it was often a tough listen that would almost make you dizzy, but what a great station it was!

 

[davideduardo]

As I recall, KRLA was forced to maintain a directional antenna days in order to protect 1130 KHZ in San Diego. I believe their 10 KW at night and their restrictive night pattern towards the east was a result of an unjustified interference complaint from KFAB in Omaha. I assume protecting 1130 KHZ at night was also a consideration.

WBT and KFAB are the dominant stations on 1110. KFAB was originally on 780 in Lincoln, then moved Post NARBA to 1110, sharing with Charlotte, and allowing soon after the creation of KXLA in Pasadena. KXLA had to severely protect Nebraska and NC.

 

[BRNout]

1520 out of Oke City (whatever the hell it is now) is still do-able in the Chicago area, but it now takes a little trying to pull it out of the slop.

The old top-40 KOMA, now KOKC, was one of my favorites (along with WLS) when I was in high school in the Dallas area. A pretty good signal during the day, but at night it became a lot more interesting: www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KOKC&service=AM&status=L&hours=N Check out that little "spike" pointed toward the south; in my hometown of Irving, just west of Dallas, the signal was sometimes fairly steady on the east side of town. Just a few miles to the west though, KOMA would suffer severe fading. At the time I was an avid short-wave listener so I was used to very long, very deep fading; with its high dial position the KOMA sky-wave signal behaved just like many trans-oceanic stations. Fact is, it was often a tough listen that would almost make you dizzy, but what a great station it was!

I have a 90-minute aircheck of KOMA from the early 90s in a box somewhere that I made on a winter night from a rural area in eastern Utah. It almost never faded there! I think that, in 90 minutes, there may have been 1 very short fade and basically no hets either. For most of the aircheck it sounded as if I taped it from somewhere like El Reno, OK. They had incredible signal coverage in the mountain west and farther east into the high plains. I remember the jocks acknowledging request calls from Manitoba and Saskatchewan!

Also did well through the plains and I did get it well in Iowa at night too. However, haven't had any luck from the Chicago area as yet. The skywave signal seemed to really die off once you got east of the Mississippi River.

Too bad Renda blew out the oldies simulcast. Now it's not recognizable - just talk, and low-rent talk at that.