DISH digs in---for now

[Les]

DISH (satellite) program guide now shows "Lifetime" as "off the air" with a phone number to call for more details.

When the normal Lifetime channel is selected the viewer gets an alternate women's channel with a crawl asserting that Lifetime is demanding a 70% rate increase and is gone, gone, gone. Unless, of course, enough people call in demanding to pay DISH a higher monthly bill to get it back.

I may be wrong but I think:

1. DISH was paying enough money to Lifetime that the "network" will seriously miss the revenue.

2. Viewship of Lifetime was actually small enough that DISH will field very few viewer demands to bring it back.

3. According to the women in my life, what they've seen on the alternate women's channel so far resonates more with them than did the re-runs on Lifetime.

4. Lifetime is likely to mostly cave within 10-days but, by then, if enough of the ladies agree with #3 above they may have blown it.

5. No earth-bound cable provider would have the nerve to do a syste-wide removal of a "network" overcome by greed and self-importance.<P ID="signature">______________
"environmentalism is collectivism in drag."
--George Will (or won't)</P>

 

[wxctintern]

I saw that when I was flipping through the channels in the breakroom at work this morning. I thought to myself - Thank god at home I have Cox Cable.

 

[6tothebronx]

I would miss the Golden Girls reruns. Other than that I don't watch the network at all. I think there was a similar dispute with Cablevision in the NYC area a few years ago. I think the network was off for a few days and then came back.

 

[TonySantiago]

HOLD ON THAR!!!!

I can't really say TOO much since I WORK there. But with any sort of network, it's really both sides fighting about the rates...it's not just a Lifetime "war" here. So let's break down the quotes...


> I may be wrong but I think:
>
> 1. DISH was paying enough money to Lifetime that the
> "network" will seriously miss the revenue.

First off, we are a network (no quotes). And whatever money DISH was paying us they would have paid other networks the same or similar.

> 2. Viewship of Lifetime was actually small enough that DISH
> will field very few viewer demands to bring it back.

You would be VERY surprised to know that there have been calls coming in LEFT and RIGHT about this. A lot of men don't tune into Lifetime, but for the women who miss The Golden Girls and Nanny repeats, this is definitely SERIOUS.

> 3. According to the women in my life, what they've seen on
> the alternate women's channel so far resonates more with
> them than did the re-runs on Lifetime.

Well, I won't argue there since everyone has their own tastes. But compared to where Lifetime was 10 years ago, we have come a long way from the "beaten up" woman.

> 4. Lifetime is likely to mostly cave within 10-days but, by
> then, if enough of the ladies agree with #3 above they may
> have blown it.

It will be a mutual agreement eventually. Things just have to be worked out.

> 5. No earth-bound cable provider would have the nerve to do
> a syste-wide removal of a "network" overcome by greed and
> self-importance.

Uhhhhh...one name....CABLEVISION. The network..."YES"

TONY SANTIAGO

 

[dampier]

Lifetime: The "You Man You" Network

> First off, we are a network (no quotes). And whatever money
> DISH was paying us they would have paid other networks the
> same or similar.

Every cable programmer thinks they can raise their wholesale program rates everytime a contract comes up for renewal. Because most cable networks are also owned by the large cable operators, this convenient little arrangement allowed everyone to make money and consumers were told rates were increasing because of "increased programming costs" without bothering to tell them the very same company "forced" to pay the hike is owned by the same parent that owns the company jacking those rates up.

Fox News Channel is the latest - they want 400% more this year. Sirius threw them off their service, and that was just an audio soundtrack, so ratings won't matter if you suddenly want to become the second highest price basic cable network around (ESPN is #1 of course).

Those days of unchecked rate increases are over as satellite and Verizon start to seriously compete with a cable industry that has been accustomed to their license to print money when it comes to profits. Evidently DISH has decided they can sacrifice Lifetime in hopes of bringing their rate increase into the reasonable territory.

> > 2. Viewship of Lifetime was actually small enough that
> DISH
> > will field very few viewer demands to bring it back.
>
> You would be VERY surprised to know that there have been
> calls coming in LEFT and RIGHT about this. A lot of men
> don't tune into Lifetime, but for the women who miss The
> Golden Girls and Nanny repeats, this is definitely SERIOUS.
>
> Well, I won't argue there since everyone has their own
> tastes. But compared to where Lifetime was 10 years ago, we
> have come a long way from the "beaten up" woman.

You sort of shoot your argument in the foot when you discuss the "valued" programming Lifetime has on offer which, when not featuring Lindsay Wagner, Valerie Bertinelli or Nancy McKeon running away from their abusive husband who killed their puppy in order to keep the woman in line, is showing what they politely call "repurposed" programming which the rest of us call moldy reruns.

Here is what DISH people are missing tomorrow:

"After her sister is tragically killed, Laci decides to help her widowed brother-in-law by moving in with him and his two kids. Everything is going just peachy until the day Richard pops the question to another woman and Laci gets wind of it. Turns out that Laci has had a secret love obsession with her sister's hubby for quite some time. Find out what unthinkable extremes Laci will go to in order to prevent these two lovebirds from tying the knot!"

I urge everyone with women in the house to clean out the knife drawer in your home before it's too late. Reassure them that they will be okay and that life can go on even if they don't know whether Laci will get away with it.

> It will be a mutual agreement eventually. Things just have
> to be worked out.

Those MEN at DISH. Look at what they've done. Look at their lies, would you just look at their lies!!! They just think they can come in here and rip up our family, lie about the kids and send them into rehab, and euthanize the cat and I am just supposed to sit here and take it. Well, I won't take it because I don't have to. With my cellphone-for-victims-of-domestic-cable-abuse I am calling now. DISH doesn't want to make a mutual agreement. Just look at what Lifetime said on the website.


CALL NOW AND TELL DISH NETWORK TO STOP DENYING THE TRUTH AND DENYING WOMEN LIFETIME: 1-888-284-7116

The Truth is that DISH Pulled the Plug on Women on New Year's Eve, Over Just Pennies, and Despite Lifetime's Offer of a Contract Extension

If you or anyone you know is a DISH subscriber, you may have tried to tune in to Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network for the great movies we wanted to share with you during the holidays and found that we're off the air. You may have heard from DISH and its CEO Charlie Ergen that this is a result of our asking for a 70 percent increase to carry Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network. But the Truth is that DISH is totally misleading their subscribers and at the same time, denying women their favorite networks. The Truth is that DISH unilaterally pulled Lifetime Networks off the air, on New Year's Eve no less, despite our offer to extend their contract through the holidays and despite more than seven months of our efforts to reach a fair agreement. The Truth is that we only asked for pennies more for the number 1 and number 2 women's channels, a fraction of what DISH and Charlie Ergen have been willing to pay for much less popular networks.

Make your dissatifaction heard right away by calling DISH at 1-888-284-7116 and emailing [email protected] and ask Charlie Ergen to tell the Truth and put Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network back on the air. We deeply regret the difficulty this disruption of service has caused our viewers and hope to resolve this quickly, but greatly appreciate all of your support especially in this difficult time.

---

Tina, bring me the axe!

I personally don't know how I made it through New Year's Eve without Lifetime. DISH was the one trying to kill Christmas and New Years, and I thought it was just the liberals. Thank god for the boxed wine... I would have never made it through last night without it. My precious Lifetime... gone.

Shucky darn.

> Uhhhhh...one name....CABLEVISION. The network..."YES"

Uhhhh... Tony, you have apparently not learned the sexist truth of cable programming. There is just one genre of programming that can jack rates up, stand firm, and eventually watch cable companies cave. That genre is SPORTS. We all saw what happened over Cablevision and Yes and again with MSG and everyone. If it's sports, there will be much sabre rattling, but in the end, they always cave. For Lifetime and the family of diginets that go along with it, not so much.

I frankly would watch Lifetime over any sports network personally, just because I can't sit still in front of a TV long enough to watch any sports, but let's face it. It's a sports world out there when a cable system like Time Warner will say Yes to Yes! at an amazing $3 a month PER SUBSCRIBER sight unseen and then threaten to yank the plug on a bouquet of channels that costs them, say, 50c a month when the contract renewal price is 75c.

The lesson here is that cable programmers have been using their bucket of subscriber fees to cough up a tiny handful of original programs, but spend the bulk of that money on cheap-to-acquire syndicated programming (stale reruns) which will just as easily turn up on another network should a contract expire. I wouldn't be highlighting the Golden Girls as a standout argument to keep Lifetime on the dial. When Lifetime eventually doesn't renew it, it will probably turn up on TV Land or maybe even the Biography Channel next to the inexplicable decision to run Murder, She Wrote reruns there twice a day.

 

[RDP]

> I saw that when I was flipping through the channels in the
> breakroom at work this morning. I thought to myself - Thank
> god at home I have Cox Cable.
>
I am now seeing this message on Dish Network channel 108. Someone is getting too greedy for their own good.

RDP <><

 

[Markxxx]

> > I saw that when I was flipping through the channels in the
>
> > breakroom at work this morning. I thought to myself -
> Thank
> > god at home I have Cox Cable.
> >
> I am now seeing this message on Dish Network channel 108.
> Someone is getting too greedy for their own good.
>
> RDP <
>
I think also that DISH isn't so much concerned about LIFETIME in of itself but rather the trend of Netorks to raise their rates without offering any real new product. I mean does the "Golden Girls" cost anymore to rerun today then yesterday. Will we just go to the used CD store and buy the DVDs of it. (OK that is an oversimplification but you get the point)

And it's simliar with cable TV raising prices every year. With cable hitting around $80/month in Chicago for expanded basic on digital, it's getting to the point where people are really starting to assess the value of cable.

Now that everyone is fighting for every dollar, it makes sense that each cable operator and DISH and DirecTV are going to try to pull each channel and asses the few losses vs the rate hikes.

At $80/month, or $960 a year people are thinking "oh my god $1,000 a year to watch TV?"

It's easy to throw away $14/month or $168/month for cable for "reception service only." But when it goes to a THOUSAND dollars a year, just the figure itself is a bit staggering to say, even to those who can easily afford it. After all $1,000 is like a downpayment on a car, or $80 a month is an additional bedroom on rent.

So I think everyone from cable to satellite operators are reeally looking to end any hint of cost increase, or bury the rate hikes in packages with Phone and internet service.

<P ID="signature">______________
Once I figured out the meaning of life....Then I forgot to write it down.</P>

 

[HomerJay]

Re: Lifetime: The "You Man You" Network

>
> Every cable programmer thinks they can raise their wholesale
> program rates everytime a contract comes up for renewal.
> Because most cable networks are also owned by the large
> cable operators, this convenient little arrangement allowed
> everyone to make money and consumers were told rates were
> increasing because of "increased programming costs" without
> bothering to tell them the very same company "forced" to pay
> the hike is owned by the same parent that owns the company
> jacking those rates up.

To say most cable networks are owned by operators is inaccurate. ESPN? Nope. MTV, Nick et al in the Viacom family? No. Lifetime? No.

Yes, the Turner networks apply, as do some regional sports networks and E, style, Golf and G4. And Fox's satellite parent certainly throws them into the category.

But "most?" Not by a long shot. More channels on my lineup are not owned by a cable company than the other way around, by a long shot.

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: Lifetime: The "You Man You" Network

(Me in parenthesis)
>
> Every cable programmer thinks they can raise their wholesale
> program rates everytime a contract comes up for renewal.
> Because most cable networks are also owned by the large
> cable operators, this convenient little arrangement allowed
> everyone to make money and consumers were told rates were
> increasing because of "increased programming costs" without
> bothering to tell them the very same company "forced" to pay
> the hike is owned by the same parent that owns the company
> jacking those rates up.

(For the record, Lifetime is NOT owned by a cable operator.)

> Those days of unchecked rate increases are over as satellite
> and Verizon start to seriously compete with a cable industry
> that has been accustomed to their license to print money
> when it comes to profits. Evidently DISH has decided they
> can sacrifice Lifetime in hopes of bringing their rate
> increase into the reasonable territory.

(I don't believe we're talking about an exorbitant increase per sub. I will admit not knowing what they want to charge, but I wouldn't think it is a ludicrous price. Other cable networks have done the same thing. Hey, I'm a cable subscriber too and it does piss me off that the rates go up. Then again, phone company rates go up, rents go up, electric and gas go up, the only difference with cable is that you don't NEED it in order to survive...you have the over-the-air channels.)

> You sort of shoot your argument in the foot when you discuss
> the "valued" programming Lifetime has on offer which, when
> not featuring Lindsay Wagner, Valerie Bertinelli or Nancy
> McKeon running away from their abusive husband who killed
> their puppy in order to keep the woman in line, is showing
> what they politely call "repurposed" programming which the
> rest of us call moldy reruns.

(There might be some aspects of this, but when you look at the Lifetime Original Movies, they have definitely come a long way from its modest beginnings. "Human Trafficking" was a definite departure from most LOM's and scored huge ratings. Sure, there are reruns...no different then Oxygen rerunning "Xena", or whatever We does. But women do tune in.)

> Those MEN at DISH. Look at what they've done. Look at
> their lies, would you just look at their lies!!! They just
> think they can come in here and rip up our family, lie about
> the kids and send them into rehab, and euthanize the cat and
> I am just supposed to sit here and take it. Well, I won't
> take it because I don't have to. With my
> cellphone-for-victims-of-domestic-cable-abuse I am calling
> now. DISH doesn't want to make a mutual agreement. Just
> look at what Lifetime said on the website.
>
>
> CALL NOW AND TELL DISH NETWORK TO STOP DENYING THE TRUTH AND
> DENYING WOMEN LIFETIME: 1-888-284-7116
>
> The Truth is that DISH Pulled the Plug on Women on New
> Year's Eve, Over Just Pennies, and Despite Lifetime's Offer
> of a Contract Extension
>
> If you or anyone you know is a DISH subscriber, you may have
> tried to tune in to Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network for
> the great movies we wanted to share with you during the
> holidays and found that we're off the air. You may have
> heard from DISH and its CEO Charlie Ergen that this is a
> result of our asking for a 70 percent increase to carry
> Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Network. But the Truth is that
> DISH is totally misleading their subscribers and at the same
> time, denying women their favorite networks. The Truth is
> that DISH unilaterally pulled Lifetime Networks off the air,
> on New Year's Eve no less, despite our offer to extend their
> contract through the holidays and despite more than seven
> months of our efforts to reach a fair agreement. The Truth
> is that we only asked for pennies more for the number 1 and
> number 2 women's channels, a fraction of what DISH and
> Charlie Ergen have been willing to pay for much less popular
> networks.
>
> Make your dissatifaction heard right away by calling DISH at
> 1-888-284-7116 and emailing [email protected]
> and ask Charlie Ergen to tell the Truth and put Lifetime and
> Lifetime Movie Network back on the air. We deeply regret the
> difficulty this disruption of service has caused our viewers
> and hope to resolve this quickly, but greatly appreciate all
> of your support especially in this difficult time.
>
> ---
>
> Tina, bring me the axe!
>
> I personally don't know how I made it through New Year's Eve
> without Lifetime. DISH was the one trying to kill Christmas
> and New Years, and I thought it was just the liberals.
> Thank god for the boxed wine... I would have never made it
> through last night without it. My precious Lifetime...
> gone.
>
> Shucky darn.

(Ohhhhhkay?? And I'll say it again, these things tend to be worked out somehow. I don't know how..I'm not in the "know" in that sense but things will be fixed up.)

>
> > Uhhhhh...one name....CABLEVISION. The network..."YES"
>
> Uhhhh... Tony, you have apparently not learned the sexist
> truth of cable programming. There is just one genre of
> programming that can jack rates up, stand firm, and
> eventually watch cable companies cave. That genre is
> SPORTS. We all saw what happened over Cablevision and Yes
> and again with MSG and everyone. If it's sports, there will
> be much sabre rattling, but in the end, they always cave.
> For Lifetime and the family of diginets that go along with
> it, not so much.
>
> I frankly would watch Lifetime over any sports network
> personally, just because I can't sit still in front of a TV
> long enough to watch any sports, but let's face it. It's a
> sports world out there when a cable system like Time Warner
> will say Yes to Yes! at an amazing $3 a month PER SUBSCRIBER
> sight unseen and then threaten to yank the plug on a bouquet
> of channels that costs them, say, 50c a month when the
> contract renewal price is 75c.
>
> The lesson here is that cable programmers have been using
> their bucket of subscriber fees to cough up a tiny handful
> of original programs, but spend the bulk of that money on
> cheap-to-acquire syndicated programming (stale reruns) which
> will just as easily turn up on another network should a
> contract expire. I wouldn't be highlighting the Golden
> Girls as a standout argument to keep Lifetime on the dial.
> When Lifetime eventually doesn't renew it, it will probably
> turn up on TV Land or maybe even the Biography Channel next
> to the inexplicable decision to run Murder, She Wrote reruns
> there twice a day

(And as I've said earlier, we do have original content in terms of the movies and certain shows such as "Merge", "How Clean Is Your House", etc. If people enjoy this type of programming and the ratings reflect on it, then not having Lifetime does create some sort of impact. And as far as the "Golden Girls" are concerned...they bring in some of the HIGHEST ratings on Lifetime. For that alone, fans of the show would want to see Lifetime. Sure, Lifetime is NOT a "YES" or a "Fox Sports", but if women want it they will speak out.)

TS

 

[dampier]

Re: Lifetime: The "You Man You" Network

> To say most cable networks are owned by operators is
> inaccurate. ESPN? Nope. MTV, Nick et al in the Viacom
> family? No. Lifetime? No.

Take a closer look at some supposedly "independent" cable networks for the minority ownership interests which turn out to be cable holding companies, cable operators, or "spin-offs" like Liberty which went independent of the old TCI for tax purposes and to keep regulators off their back. It's hard to be a true champion of price control when you end up indirectly making money from it. Not all are owned by cable interests, but Al Gore wasn't wrong when he used to call cable the "cosa nostra" of communications.

New networks get launched in two major ways - cable operators get a buy-in or
major broadcast networks force cable systems to carry their products in return for retransmission consent, especially in the O&O cities. That explains Soapnet, for example. Trio didn't show up because of consumer demand for Pink Lady and Jeff reruns either. Some other channels buy their way in with launch bonuses. Shopping channels not owned outright by cable interests pay a bonus for every purchase made by cable viewers.

New cable channels owned by your local cable system have a far easier shot of landing on your lineup than those which aren't. A number of others, especially network-owned diginets popped up because of retransmission consent.

Competition from satellite and new technologies like fiber is the only thing driving what limited amount of battle over pricing their is these days.

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: Lifetime: The "You Man You" Network

> New cable channels owned by your local cable system have a
> far easier shot of landing on your lineup than those which
> aren't. A number of others, especially network-owned
> diginets popped up because of retransmission consent.
>

I gotta give it to Philip on that one. The reason why AMC, Bravo, MuchMusic USA (now Fuse), We and the News 12's have popped up quick on the Cablevision Systems is due to the fact that they are (in the case of AMC and Bravo...WERE) owned by Rainbow Media, the programming "arm" of Cablevision. The same reason why OLN is all over the Comcast systems.

And on a historical note, ESPN2 was "forced" onto cable systems because they were utilizing the "must carry" provisions whereas they were going to remove all ABC cable networks if ESPN2 wasn't given a place on the cable lineup.