DISH Network Info Channel on 56.1

[Mattswad]

Just curious if anyone else can pick up what appears to be the DISH Network Information Channel on RF Channel 56.1? Its a continuous loop that tells Dish Network subscribers how to operate their remotes, pay bills online, change subscription packages, etc. I know this channel is for the Echostar Mobile TV service but I'm curious why they would bother showing this channel on OTA DTV?

The call sign is WQJY980 ATLANx (where x = 1 through 9 that service various parts of the metro area) and the channel is listed as simply "DISH" on my Zenith converter box. No call signs, no program information.

Also, I can't pick up any signal whatsoever on RF 55 which is the MediaFlo competitor. Can anyone else? Is anything shown on it?

 

[tripinva]

MediaFLO was shut down and the spectrum sold to AT&T.

- Trip

 

[w9wi]

http://www.fanvision.com/support

Looks like Dish Network owns this spectrum & has leased it to FanVision.

The website sure looks a lot like the one for that company that's running a radio-only service using VHF-TV spectrum in college stadiums. The name is different but you can tell the same web designer built it.

FCC ULS lists eight sites. Why I have no idea as when you look at the website it suggests this system only works in the stadium... unless they're looking at offering high-school sports? Maybe someone can work out what's at the coordinates below...

1 - Fixed
Buford, GA GWINNETT County 34-07-47.9 N, 083-55-55.7 W

2 - Fixed
Atlanta, GA FULTON County 33-44-40.8 N, 084-21-35.7 W

3 - Fixed
Marietta, GA COBB County 34-03-58.5 N, 084-27-14.1 W

4 - Fixed
Conyers, GA ROCKDALE County 33-44-22.0 N, 084-00-14.0 W

5 - Fixed
Fayetteville, GA FAYETTE County 33-27-18.9 N, 084-24-35.4 W

6 - Fixed
Athens, GA CLARKE County 33-59-35.9 N, 083-24-55.9 W

7 - Fixed
Gainesville, GA HALL County 34-18-59.0 N, 083-46-18.0 W

8 - Fixed
Newnan, GA COWETA County 33-24-41.0 N, 084-49-47.8 W

 

[tripinva]

Here's a page I made for RabbitEars about it a year or two ago, and a map of the transmitter sites.

http://www.rabbitears.info/echostar.php?request=list
http://www.rabbitears.info/echostar.php?request=map&state=GA&market_name=Atlanta

The TSReader data I have on it is pretty old and clearly shows it using ATSC-M/H, but I'm hoping to get a new one in a few weeks. The data I have now predates the Dish Network barker channel that Mattswad is seeing.

- Trip

 

[Mattswad]

Thank you all for the replies. I know I am being an annoying noob & please forgive my ignorance...but I'm unable to make heads or tales out of the info that w9wi & trip kindly posted in response to my query. Could I beg of someone to please post in lamens terms what all of that great info means?

Errr...um....wait....I neglected to mention that I'm also a guitar player by trade, so you'd better dumb that explanation down another whole step.

If it helps, I believe this is my lat/long coordinates:
33.648515 ,-84. 594674

I live near Cliftondale Elementary on the southwest side of Atlanta.

Thanks so much guys! I'm just curious!
Matthew

 

[w9wi]

Thank you all for the replies. I know I am being an annoying noob & please forgive my ignorance...but I'm unable to make heads or tales out of the info that w9wi & trip kindly posted in response to my query. Could I beg of someone to please post in lamens terms what all of that great info means?

Sorry 'bout that!

Channels 52-69 are no longer available for regular television broadcasting. Most of those channels are being sold to businesses who think they can make a buck somehow. (Trip's comment about "MediaFLO" involves one of those businesses who found there wasn't as much money to be made as they thought.....)

Channel 56 was sold nationwide to Dish Network. Dish has in turn leased the spectrum to a company called FanVision. I didn't have time to exhaustively explore the firm, but I'm pretty sure their business idea is to operate low-powered transmitters in sports stadiums, and broadcast special angles of the game and other game-related material to fans actually present in the stadium. A firm with a VERY similar website has been offering a similar radio (not TV) service using lower frequencies. (I would not be surprised if it's the *same* firm using two different brand names)

They're doing this in a few other markets as well. (I'll try to get a list tomorrow but probably won't have time)

The links Trip posted indicate a system broadcasting to special Mobile Digital TV receivers. However, the broadcasts detailed in Trip's links could NOT be received on an ordinary digital TV like your Zenith -- so obviously the transmission standards have changed! (as he suggests)

Even if MediaFLO was still operating on channel 55, you wouldn't be able to receive it. The transmission standards were SO different from ordinary digital TV, it's kinda like the difference between AM and FM.

 

[Mattswad]

Thank you! I re-read my last post and I hope I don't sound rude...not at all my intent. Just an embarrassed noob with no knowlege of the tech side and definition of most common terms.

So if I understand correctly, the feed I'm getting is from a transmitter for a sports stadium nearby? What could that be though? I live 12 miles from downtown. There's the Wolf Creek Ampitheatre nearby.

Could Elementary Schools lease this?

 

[tripinva]

Mattswad: The second link I posted is to a map of where the 8 transmitters are, and each is at 50 kW, so you're likely receiving one of those that is closest to you.

W9WI: I suspect they're still using ATSC-M/H for the actual service, but have now added a standard SD subchannel to advertise Dish Network, which is what Mattswad is seeing. I'll try to remember to let you know when/if I get new data from it.

- Trip

 

[w9wi]

Thank you! I re-read my last post and I hope I don't sound rude...not at all my intent. Just an embarrassed noob with no knowlege of the tech side and definition of most common terms.

No, absolutely, your post wasn't taken as negative in any way!

So if I understand correctly, the feed I'm getting is from a transmitter for a sports stadium nearby? What could that be though? I live 12 miles from downtown. There's the Wolf Creek Ampitheatre nearby.

I'm really not sure where it's coming from!

I'm coming to think this is a work in progress.

The FCC records suggest the eight sites on the map Trip linked are the authorized sites. The fact that you're seeing it at a substantial distance from the nearest major sports venue would tend to confirm that. (the powers & sites listed in the FCC records are adequate for reception pretty much anywhere in greater Atlanta)

The FanVision website suggests something very different. The FAQs clearly state that the special receiver will not work away from the sports venue -- it specifically asks "19. Why can't I use my FanVision device at home?" and answers "Your FanVision controller will only work within the venues that are enabled with our broadcast technology." Another FAQ explicitly states the transmitters are located at the sports venues.

(and that matches the technical data in the FCC records for the radio service)

And to further confuse things, the transmission standards used last year have obviously been changed (you wouldn't be able to receive the signals if they hadn't) -- but the new standards do not limit reception to paid subscribers. (which suggests the standards will be changed again!)

_________________________________________________

A wild guess, and this is only a WILD guess, is that FanVision prepared the website first, and then decided to go out & look for frequencies to use to provide their service. They found that Dish was willing to lease them some spectrum suitable for their operations. They asked Dish to turn on the network so they could "kick the tires", to see whether the existing network would provide enough signal in the stadiums to be useful, or if they'd need to build some new transmitters closer to the venues.

_________________________________________________

Yikes, this service is EXPENSIVE!

Strangely enough, the website says it isn't available in Atlanta yet. In Chicago, they're charging $150 for the special receiver, and another $99 for one NFL season's worth of service. That gets you eight home games and the three away games that are played in stadiums equipped with the service. (only twelve NFL teams are covered. They also offer NCAA college football, but you'd better be a Michigan fan as that's the only team they offer!)

Could Elementary Schools lease this?

I'm sure they could, although these days I can't imagine any elementary school being able to afford the leasing fees

I would think just about anyone is eligible to lease this "700MHz band" spectrum from the owners.

 

[w9wi]

W9WI: I suspect they're still using ATSC-M/H for the actual service, but have now added a standard SD subchannel to advertise Dish Network, which is what Mattswad is seeing. I'll try to remember to let you know when/if I get new data from it.

I would buy that. Although it would be a rather expensive ad (in terms of the additional hardware necessary) given that you're reaching a relatively small audience. (albeit, a rather well-to-do audience, given what they're willing to pay for the M/H service!)

I think there's still some technical work in progress here. I'm not convinced we won't see the transmitter site list change before the season launches.

 

[Mattswad]

OK here's another wrench. I recall noticing that channel for the first time several months ago once I bought my amp & pre-amp and installed an old set of rabbit ears in the attic...at my *OLD* house, about 5 square miles away!!! Where Stonewall Tell Rd. meets Koweta Rd. with almost equally the same signal strength.

That house was about the same distance away from another Elementary School if I recall correctly. That's why I brought that up.

 

[Mattswad]

And just like clockwork, RF56 is gone. Nothing. Not even the slightest trace of a signal where I had been getting around 75-90% on every tv in the house, even without an amp connected.

Did someone from EchoStar read this thread and nix the signal? Surely they weren't experimenting with trying to sneak past the FCC for some unknown reason?

Theories? Anyone?

What gives?

 

[w9wi]

I'm confident it was legal.

I think seeing it disappear reinforces my speculation that FanVision was "kicking the tires".

I would keep an eye on their website, see if they announce coverage of the Falcons and/or Bulldogs. If they do, I would expect to see it come back up once the football season starts. I might expect to see it only on game days.

 

[Mattswad]

But I'm not really close to the Dome (about 20 mins with no traffic & probably 10 miles "as the crow flies") and nowhere NEAR Athens!

Although Ga Tech is a possibility...but that would have to be a pretty powerful signal. It was stronger than WTHC-LD's 42.1 (The Atlanta Channel) which comes in pretty decent here.

It sure would be cool if I could pick up the special features during the games OTA if that's the case!!!
And FanVision, if you're listening, I'm begging not to somehow scramble it! I *PROMISE* I won't tell a soul!!! After all, you know where I LIVE now!

 

[w9wi]

But I'm not really close to the Dome (about 20 mins with no traffic & probably 10 miles "as the crow flies") and nowhere NEAR Athens!

Although Ga Tech is a possibility...but that would have to be a pretty powerful signal. It was stronger than WTHC-LD's 42.1 (The Atlanta Channel) which comes in pretty decent here.

That's really the big question -- how much of the existing transmitter network (if any) does FanVision plan to use?
- Will they operate the entire network as it currently exists? (in which case you'll have no trouble seeing it, it will cover the entire greater Atlanta area)
- Will they operate only the transmitter nearest the Falcons' stadium? (and/or the UGA stadium in Athens?) (I wouldn't rule out seeing the transmitter closest to the Falcons)
- Will they operate *none* of the existing transmitters, but build their own low-powered transmitters at one or both stadiums? (in which case you'll probably see nothing...)

I have no idea.

I didn't think about Ga. Tech.

 

[Mattswad]

It's baaaaack!!!

As of yesterday, Friday August 20, I am receiving a signal again but no picture. Been out of town this week so don't know when it first began transmitting. The lack of picture may be on my end too...as the signal meter is floating around the grey area of just seeing a black screen.

Also, FYI: there was NOT a signal present during the Falcons first preseason game.

 

[w9wi]

It's baaaaack!!!

As of yesterday, Friday August 20, I am receiving a signal again but no picture. Been out of town this week so don't know when it first began transmitting. The lack of picture may be on my end too...as the signal meter is floating around the grey area of just seeing a black screen.

Also, FYI: there was NOT a signal present during the Falcons first preseason game.

I have since found an interesting review of this system, from Chicago:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/28/nfl-fanvision-review-and-behind-the-scenes/

This review:
- clearly states the transmitters are located at the stadium. (one at either end of the field, and in the scoreboard)
- states the system uses the DVB-T standard. (which should not deliver any signal at all to a U.S. digital TV, not even a M/H TV)

Which really rather adds to the mystery of what you're seeing -- while FanVision has leased the spectrum, it seems pretty clear they aren't using the Dish Network transmitters.

 

[Mattswad]

I can confirm that there is no picture or audio being shown since my last post, however the signal meter reads more than 90% on my Zenith. The signal is the same on all sub-channels from 56.1 to 56.99.......and yes, I checked and it *IS* RF (physical) channel 56.

I live near Cliftondale Fire Station, Cliftondale Elementary and there is also a large tower beside my house on Butner Road as well as a Sheriff behind it that had an "antenna" displaying on this list of towers I found on the net. (sorry I lost the link) Just trying to throw ANYTHING out there that may explain this....although it still doesn't explain why the DISH Network Info channel was showing initially.