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Dish Network. LOUD commercials.

frankberry

frankberry

Administrator
Inactive User
Has anyone but me noticed that the commercials which are inserted by Dish Network are at least 10dB louder than the commercials provided by the program provider? The audio leveler in the Dish receiver seems not to control the loudness of these Dish-inserted commercials.
This is really annoying and in direct violation of FCC Rules.
I have filed a complaint with the FCC. I ask that other Dish customers file a complaint by going here:
 
frankberry said:
Has anyone but me noticed that the commercials which are inserted by Dish Network are at least 10dB louder than the commercials provided by the program provider? The audio leveler in the Dish receiver seems not to control the loudness of these Dish-inserted commercials.
This is really annoying and in direct violation of FCC Rules.
I have filed a complaint with the FCC. I ask that other Dish customers file a complaint by going here:
Click to expand...
It's not just Dish, unfortunately just about everyone does it, as I deal with this constantly on Hulu. Wasn't the rule that the commercial could not be louder than the nosiest part of a TV show/movie (an explosion, per se?) Thank you for providing the form, I will share.
 
frankberry said:
Has anyone but me noticed that the commercials which are inserted by Dish Network are at least 10dB louder than the commercials provided by the program provider? The audio leveler in the Dish receiver seems not to control the loudness of these Dish-inserted commercials.
This is really annoying and in direct violation of FCC Rules.
I have filed a complaint with the FCC. I ask that other Dish customers file a complaint by going here:
Click to expand...
I remember a long time ago reading about legislation that a senator was trying to introduce that would make it unlawful to raise the volume on commercials. Although most still seem louder than the program airing especially on sporting event commercials.
 
I'm puzzled by the technical aspect of this, Dish and most other TV services are digital and digital (same codec and DAC) has the same maximum volume regardless of what the audio is (TV program or commercial).

The only way I can think of to do this is to have a separate signal that turns up an amplifier after the DAC during the commercial then back down for the program.


Kirk Bayne
 
What you don't understand is that the program content providers don't produce the programs at maximum volume.
The average digital program level is somewhere between 20dB and 24dB below the absolute maximum digital level.
They must provide adequate headroom for random audio peaks. When Dish Network inserts their commercials, they don't provide the same amount of headroom as the program content providers. It's possible that Dish uses audio level compression and peak limiting to increase the perceived volume without the potential of running out of digital bits (which sounds really bad).
It's pretty much the same as for analog audio. Analog recordings are produced at a reduced level to provide headroom for peaks.
Unlike digital, analog recorders have the ability to gracefully soft-clip the high audio peaks. This produces less audible distortion that when the digital medium runs out of bits and produces absolute square waves.
 
ZantennaG1 said:
It's not just Dish, unfortunately just about everyone does it, as I deal with this constantly on Hulu. Wasn't the rule that the commercial could not be louder than the nosiest part of a TV show/movie (an explosion, per se?) Thank you for providing the form, I will share.
Click to expand...
As I recall, perceived commercial volume should not exceed the perceived "average" volume of the program.
In the case of televised motion pictures, explosions and other similar effects often push the audio level limit, peaking almost at 0dBFS or about 20dB above the average program level.
 
frankberry said:
As I recall, perceived commercial volume should not exceed the perceived "average" volume of the program.
In the case of televised motion pictures, explosions and other similar effects often push the audio level limit, peaking almost at 0dBFS or about 20dB above the average program level.
Click to expand...
That's an issue that first became prominent over 50 years ago! There was complaining that TV ads were too loud, and the networks back then answered that the audio density rather than peak levels made commercials seem louder. Even if they did not have analog peaks any higher than regular program content, the average "audio energy" level was much greater.

There were devices created to try to compensate for such levels, such as the CBS Laboratories Dynamic Presence Equalizer. But I think the issue in many cases is the dramatic difference in audio density between a drama, a newscast or a sports play-by-play and a heavily produced agency commercial.
 
DavidEduardo said:
There were devices created to try to compensate for such levels, such as the CBS Laboratories Dynamic Presence Equalizer. But I think the issue in many cases is the dramatic difference in audio density between a drama, a newscast or a sports play-by-play and a heavily produced agency commercial.
Click to expand...
At one point a decade or more ago I think it was Philips that had a bunch of ads airing for their TVs that would even out the levels between the programs and commercials; They featured John Cleese of Monty Python fame. Toward the end of the ads, a commercial would pop onto one of the TVs pictured in the background, with a salesman yelling and pointing while promoting his product. Cleese looked at the TV and gave the line "No use in shouting, ole man!"
 
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frankberry said:
What you don't understand is that the program content providers don't produce the programs at maximum volume.
Click to expand...
That explains it, I didn't know there was so much of a difference between the maximum (digital) volume level and the average program volume level.


Kirk Bayne
 
Whatever happened to the CALM Act? I guess these providers are just blatantly breaking the law now?
On the other hand, can someone finally fire Doug and smash that Emu? And take away EVERY SINGLE Liberty Mutual commercial with that HORRIBLE jingle?!! :mad:

I love emus. I hate the emu in that commercial.
 
crainbebo said:
Whatever happened to the CALM Act? I guess these providers are just blatantly breaking the law now?
On the other hand, can someone finally fire Doug and smash that Emu? And take away EVERY SINGLE Liberty Mutual commercial with that HORRIBLE jingle?!! :mad:

I love emus. I hate the emu in that commercial.
Click to expand...
OMG, you're on a tear about the Liberty Mutual Emu again?? Lol! I recall you were on such a tangent in another thread, that I even posted a haiku poem about your adversarial relationship with the Limu Emu several months back! :)
 
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Yesterday I was home visiting family, and not only did the Emu come on during football, but so did the jump rope girls. These folks spend more time annoying me on commercial breaks than any other car insurance company - albeit GEICO is a very close 2nd.
But anyways back to the original topic. For a long time, I think it was the ABC station here that would do that crap. The national spots would run on an ABC program or (more commonly) a syndicated show like Rachael Ray. Then the local ads came on, and often it was the 800 numbers that were way louder than the original program. Almost bombastically loud. I haven't noticed it lately, so I wonder if they got complaints...
 
The Gecko, I don't mind, as much as the other godawful commercials they run, which change every 4-6 weeks. Some of them make no sense whatsoever and have nothing to do with car insurance. Progressive is a very close third!
 
crainbebo said:
The Gecko, I don't mind, as much as the other godawful commercials they run, which change every 4-6 weeks. Some of them make no sense whatsoever and have nothing to do with car insurance. Progressive is a very close third!
Click to expand...
I frequently cannot remember the advertiser after viewing the commercial the first time. Unless it is a Budweiser quality commercial I likely don't pay attention anyway.
 
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