Disturbing trend

[III]

As mentioned in another post, rock stations across the country continue thier slow decline. What obsticles does the format face? Is it's demo too plugged into satalite or ipods, or its it as simple as a programming issue on a national level?

 

[DudeFan]

> As mentioned in another post, rock stations across the
> country continue thier slow decline. What obsticles does
> the format face? Is it's demo too plugged into satalite or
> ipods, or its it as simple as a programming issue on a
> national level?
>

Please excuse me if I kind of answer my own post.

My humble opinion regarding the decline of rock stations is really the end result of two things. First, the new rock product is not there. With the execption of AAA, which is really more pop/rock, there is very little quality, exciting music being marketing. Sure, there are a lot of great bands out there, but not on the major labels. AAA is hot because someone like Greg Latterman, who really loves the genre, is going out, finding the bands, and putting them on his label. John Mayer, Train, Hootie, Edwin, etc. all have a lot to owe to Greg. There is no one doing something similar for rock. And the product out there is really really modal and hard and the songs aren't mass-appeal.

So, you've got fundamental problems with the current product. You also have a library problem. In the early 1990's when a lot of mainstream rock stations went "Rock Alternative," they blew out the core library artists like Zepplen, AC/DC, Aerosmith and the like. Now these stations are in a pinch. With the current rock product so bad, should they lean more gold and play this "classic rock" or should they limit it to the grunge-era rock alternative bands? I don't think the stations know the answer to that. Clearly Aerosmith is not "Alternative," but can you have enough depth with grunge to appeal to something more than a limited 25-35 age group and is there enough audience to be that narrow?

Secondly, you have a real problem where the core national advertisers -- breweries and distillers -- are really really gun shy about advertising on stations that have a high percentage of underage listeners. There are a lot of brewers and distillers who simply won't buy stations that have large 12-21's. Where does the cume and growth come in a rock station or a CHR? 12-24's! In fear of losing the ad dollars, 18-34 rock stations are attempting to lean older and bail the teens. It didn't work for CHR in the 1990's and I am not sure it will work now. It may, though. I don't think you can be successful as a rock station long-term if you don't continue to cultivate younger listeners and just bite the bullet with the beer folks. I may be wrong and I have been wrong before.

So anyway, that's what I see is the problem with the format... lack of music to draw folks in and driving away parts of the audience that is there in the chase for advertising dollars.

I'd love to hear other folks' thoughts.

 

[Timothy]

I think you've pretty much got the picture. Remember when women could also rock? Not anymore. Somehow, alternative stations who made their name on artists like Aimee Mann, Liz Phair, and Ani DiFranco now shy away from them like they were radioactive. The only product currently under consideration for these stations is the same sounding thing that the myriad of Nickleback clones are offering. Once the labels take over the genre, they all want somebody who sounds like (X).

The same thing happend to CHR in the late 80's. Labels started to consolidate. The genre stopped breaking new artists and sounds. Off kilter groups like the B-52's were shunted off to super low rotation or dropped entirely. So, alternative stations started popping up to play those artists.

Full circle. The labels constrict the product.

 

[DudeFan]

> I think you've pretty much got the picture. Remember when
> women could also rock? Not anymore. Somehow, alternative
> stations who made their name on artists like Aimee Mann, Liz
> Phair, and Ani DiFranco now shy away from them like they
> were radioactive. The only product currently under
> consideration for these stations is the same sounding thing
> that the myriad of Nickleback clones are offering. Once the
> labels take over the genre, they all want somebody who
> sounds like (X).
>
> The same thing happend to CHR in the late 80's. Labels
> started to consolidate. The genre stopped breaking new
> artists and sounds. Off kilter groups like the B-52's were
> shunted off to super low rotation or dropped entirely. So,
> alternative stations started popping up to play those
> artists.
>
> Full circle. The labels constrict the product.
>


Here's an article from Yahoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051029/music_nm/radio_dc

While it deals with Infinity and Howard mainly, it is not a good sign for the format when Market #1 has no current rock station. (New York also has no country station)

 

[BIGRIGGER]

Male sampling is a MAJOR problem in a lot of markets as well. A lot of guys in that core 25-34, demo just have cell phones now which presents a problem since Arb is NOT using cell phone data to contact. When you see a well sampled male trend Rock does not look all that bad. 12+ numbers also are real deceiving. You've got to look @ the 18-34 number to get a real feel for health. Especially MALE 18-34 and 25-34 numbers to get a good pulse on the problem.

I also think that too many stations have cut the playlist to the bone and it eating away @ TSL and crushing thier cume as well. Bring back the 90's library besides Pearl Jam, AIC, & Nirvana and freshen it up. BROADEN IT!! That is the Active rock "classic" library that A LOT of stations just seem to have forgotten about.

As far as New York not having a rock station...that hole will not be around long(when the switch goes down).

 

[DudeFan]

> Male sampling is a MAJOR problem in a lot of markets as
> well. A lot of guys in that core 25-34, demo just have cell
> phones now which presents a problem since Arb is NOT using
> cell phone data to contact. When you see a well sampled male
> trend Rock does not look all that bad. 12+ numbers also are
> real deceiving. You've got to look @ the 18-34 number to get
> a real feel for health. Especially MALE 18-34 and 25-34
> numbers to get a good pulse on the problem.
>
> I also think that too many stations have cut the playlist to
> the bone and it eating away @ TSL and crushing thier cume as
> well. Bring back the 90's library besides Pearl Jam, AIC, &
> Nirvana and freshen it up. BROADEN IT!! That is the Active
> rock "classic" library that A LOT of stations just seem to
> have forgotten about.
>
> As far as New York not having a rock station...that hole
> will not be around long(when the switch goes down).
>

Great points. But 12+ is a pretty good comparison as you move from survey period to survey period to get an overall grasp on the mass-appeal of the format. In Columbia, Alt Rock could be good for as much as a 6.5 12+. Sure, there are more signals now. Two are country and the urban audience has been fragmented for a loss of non-urban format choices. Yet the cume is now just about half of what the format used to pick up.

Sampling is a problem. It always has been. Until people meters come out, we're going to suffer with bad sampling -- but at least its consistently bad for everyone -- from N/T to CHR to Urban to Country.

I think you are correct, alt rock (and AOR -- a misnomer in and of itself) has been turned into a niche format. Part of this is the "cluster effect" where for marketing purposes the stations are tughtly focused to make the numbers easier to break out and tell a story to the ad buyers in CLT, ATL and NYC at the expense of having the stations address a programming need in the market.

I am not so sure anyone in NYC flips rock/alt rock anytime soon. Maybe CR Q104.5 will lean more current or 'KTU or 'PLJ gets blown up.