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DJs as Artists -- Hate to Rain on the Parade, But....

But, most DJs from the golden age were not artists. They intro'd and extro'd songs, read spots, gave time and temp, and did IDs.

In fact I'd be hard-pressed to identify many of the DJs revered on these boards as artists. For instance, people wax nostalgic about, oh, let's say Robert W. Morgan, but aside from a voice, what did he have? Listen to his airchecks and you hear The Voice, but not much else. He didn't say particularly clever things; he really wasn't that fast on the uptake. Likewise, Don Steele, Casey Kasem, and the other KEWB folks.

And KFRC. I'm afraid that much as I liked Beau Weaver and certainly respect him in many ways (keeping his long hair in the fact of pressure to conform, for one, and also his incredibly helpful web page about voiceover work), when people think of Beau Weaver, what do they remember? They remember his name, maybe his voice, but what else?

I think the same can be said for almost every KFRC DJ from Dave Diamond to Dave Sholin. Surely, they have memorable voices and can deliver the live spots and sound convincing. But artists? Artists? No. Artists are people who break the mold, who stretch the medium, who take mundane raw parts and fashion something new and interesting out of them.

How many people here are honoring DJs mainly because they remember how they pronounced their names on the air? I think too many. Sorry, and no disrespect, but if we're going to talk about artists, let's talk about artists, shall we?

To me, Al Jazzbeaux Collins was an artist. I can remember how he stretched the medium, giving out recipes for beer bread, interviewing total wackos and making them into curiosity pieces, the imagery of the Purple Grotto, the laid-back style that was unknown in DJ work prior to his arrival on the scene. And just as you thought that he could only do a midnight jazz show, he shows up as a talkshow host on KGO. And through his connections and his interest in music, he exposed two generations of listeners to jazz they otherwise would not have heard (back before music directors took over).

Don Rose was an artist. I can still quote jokes he told. I can still remember the serious charitable work he did and spoke for, and the positive can-do attitude he fostered, even when he had leg cancer and had to do his show from his bed.

Don Sherwood was an artist (though in hearing his airchecks, to me he seems less of an artist than I remembered).

Tom Donahue, another mold breaker. He was definitely an artist.
 
Have to agree, DK, with reservations. There might have been a sort of an art in talking up records, hitting the posts, and all that...but only to industry people, like saying a painter is good because he treats his canvas with just the right amount of gesso (AOR jocks were similarly noted for their elaborate segue schemes and meaningful sets...but art?). To the listener, anything but a song is a commercial. DJs, promos, imaging: all commercials, until the next song comes on. A good jock was and is able to soften the blow between songs.

I think if you sub the word "professional" for "art", then you get closer to accurate when describing the legends, with the requisite exceptions. The pro is consistantly able to bring his/her good voice to a particular level of enthusiasm, which somewhat involves acting chops, itself a bit of an art, but (to stretch the painting analogy to the point of pain) music is the real art, djs are the frame.

Adding to your list of the more creative professionals, tho, Dennis Erectus comes to mind. All of his breaks were multi media events, each including pre produced original skits, TV/movie audio (well before that was a thing), song bits, and improv'd live rants all appropriate to the skit, and the entire breaks appropriate to the surrounding sets of music. It was only after the term "shock jock" was coined that his reputation was marginalized to fit the term.
 
It's all relative, but if rappers are artists or musicians, than certainly DJs are artists. All the talent and skill that go into how they use their voices and minds is something that can't be done by just any trained monkey. There are levels in everything. To use the music analogy again, a rapper doesn't have the musical talent or skill of a major symphony musician, but is still considered a musician. A good college football player may not make the jump to the NFL, but has more athletic ability and skill than most of us.

Even in one of the examples above, would the ordinary Joe or Jane be able to use their voice as a sweeper, modulating the tempo and intensity from a fast song to a slow one perfectly? Add to this the content the best DJs provide, and you have artistry. It touches the listener, and is the glue that has held music radio together...at least in the past. It seems that some operators want to crush the creativity out of radio. Will it survive? Who can say?
 
Well, in that sense, Static, anyone who excels in what they do is an artist. Day trader scores a few 100K? I can't do that. Is it art? Contractor does a nice job tiling my floor? I couldn't in a million years. Art? There has to be some parameter, some boundary to word use. While art is a flexible term, it can't always be stretched to simply describing skill, no matter the context.

A rapper is actually more of an artist than a symphony musician. He uses his voice as instrument (percussive as may be) while creating the rap, the flow, the arrangement. The oboe player is simply following directions, and creating nothing but sound appropriate to the directions, otherwise he's no good for the symphony. The Simpson's opening sequence comes to mind, as Lisa is booted from the school orchestra for being an artist.
 
Sorry, I disagree. Classical and Jazz musicians do things that a rapper has no clue about. The same is true, albeit on a different level, for air talent. Without the talent, the skill and practice don't make a lot of difference.
 
SFStatic said:
Sorry, I disagree. Classical and Jazz musicians do things that a rapper has no clue about. The same is true, albeit on a different level, for air talent. Without the talent, the skill and practice don't make a lot of difference.

Case in point is Joshua Bell, world-renowned classical violinist child prodigy. His playing is note-perfect -- he's a professional in every sense of the word -- but his playing has no soul. And he really really wants to play bluegrass music. But, he can't improvise worth a damn. Instead, he has his bluegrass parts written out for him and he plays them like any other score: cold and professional.

Again, I turn to my definition of artist: one who takes mundane tools available to them and fashions interesting new results. An artist is someone who breaks the mold and stretches the dominant paradigm all out of shape. Picasso was an artist; Thomas Kincade, uh, no.
 
Saying Robert W. Morgan wasn't an artist is like saying Picasso was a sign writer ! It's a case of grossly devaluing the total package, of both craftsmen.

Regards,
IAN in Oz.
 
Agree with Ian. Not recognizing the artistry of a Robert W. Morgan means you just don't get it.
 
IAN WRIGHT said:
Saying Robert W. Morgan wasn't an artist is like saying Picasso was a sign writer ! It's a case of grossly devaluing the total package, of both craftsmen.

Regards,
IAN in Oz.

Please explain what about Robert W Morgan leads you to this conclusion. What exactly did he do that made him an artist? I'm speaking to my definition of artist, that is, someone who breaks the conventions and moves radio into a different direction. I've heard a lot of Morgan's airchecks and I just don't see anything new or interesting that he contributed.
 
Then you don't know how to listen or what to listen for. There's just no way to convince people who obviously don't get it. By your definition, you would include Howard Stern as an artist. I don't know whether he is or isn't....but I don't think you do either...

I can quote jokes from various Jocks over the years....does that make them artists? I think Dr Don was an artist, but not for the same reasons you do.

And comparing Classical/Jazz musicians with rappers and Jocks is idiotic. All of them "paint" on different canvasses. (sp?)

As for the other moronic statement about Casey Kasem not being an artist...Why do you think AT40 lasted so long? I'm not a huge Kasem fan, but the sound and feeling he created around a weekly countdown show has never been matched.

It's about the art of communication...Which is really what Jazzbeaux was able to do so well.
 
I think we're quibbling over words here, and I get David kaye's point. In a world of "gourmet" fast-food cheeseburgers, "artist" is another word that has been devalued. Could we just agree that the best jocks are talented-professionals-who-go-the-extra-mile-and-take-pride-in-what-they-do...or is that too unwieldy?

Please - everybody don't pile on now...but I grew up in LA in the 60s and well remember Robert W. Morgan from KHJ, and the fairly short-lived dance party show he hosted on TV. He was fine, great voice and all - but as far as content goes, I always thought he was a bit over-rated. I was usually listening to Dave Hull or Lohman & Barkley, who were far more inventive and funny, in my opinion. But again - that's just my opinion.

Thank you, Los Angeles...it's been groovy.
 
DyingMedium said:
As for the other moronic statement about Casey Kasem not being an artist...Why do you think AT40 lasted so long?

You're confusing art with mass appeal. Actually, they're opposites. Many, if not most artists are not commercially successful. Painters such as van Gogh didn't even experience success in their lifetimes.

Most people who break convention do NOT have mass appeal. Jazzbeaux did not have mass appeal. People say that the old KSAN under Tom Donahue was very successful. It was not. KFRC had about 3 times the listeners. Most people are not ready for mold-breakers. They prefer the comfortable. They do not want anyone to challenge what they're comfortable with.

There is a reason why McDonald's is more popular than Chez Maman, and why more people buy clothes at WalMart than at Distractions.

Casey Kasem was successful precisely because he didn't break any molds, precisely because he wasn't an artist. Now, don't get me wrong, I respect him a lot, but more for lending his celebrity to Arab affairs and Middle East peace efforts than for his radio schtick.

Now, occasionally true artists can slip through and make it big. But that's as much a matter of happenstance as anything. The Beatles and Stones were both in the artist class, but they also came along on the heels of the Kennedy assassination when the U.S. was in a very gloomy mood. Conditions were right for uptempo loud melodic rock people could dance to, and it just happened that these guys broke the mold of what came before. Had it been another era this might not have happened.
 
DyingMedium said:
Then you don't know how to listen or what to listen for. There's just no way to convince people who obviously don't get it. By your definition, you would include Howard Stern as an artist. I don't know whether he is or isn't....but I don't think you do either...

Yes, Howard Stern is an artist, or was, at any rate. So much of what he does now is just schtick. But still, I ask you what Robert W. Morgan did that puts him in this class. I pointed out SPECIFICALLY what made Jazzbeaux and others artists, but you give me no such SPECIFICS about Morgan. I'm earger to learn what it is I missed.

For the record I'm not an artist in the DJ world. I've been a mediocre DJ, but I'm willing to learn about those folks who are great, especially those I don't appreciate for their greatness. So, have at it. I'm listening.
 
"People say that the old KSAN under Tom Donahue was very successful. It was not. KFRC had about 3 times the listeners. Most people are not ready for mold-breakers. They prefer the comfortable. They do not want anyone to challenge what they're comfortable with."

Not disagreeing at all, just pointing out that success is relative. One-third the audience of KFRC amounted to "success" for a station that probably had one twentieth the audience of KFRC when it played automated elevator music a couple of years previously. Of course, it couldn't endure as the real "free-form" KSAN because the corporate owners thought they could make it more popular by making it more mass appeal, and comfortable - so your point is well taken.

"There is a reason why McDonald's is more popular than Chez Maman, and why more people buy clothes at WalMart than at Distractions."

Actually, there are multiple reasons, and another is money. I don't eat at McDonalds or buy clothes at Wal-Mart, but I do buy burritos at Taqueria San Jose, and clothes at Target and Costco. I wear clothes to be socially appropriate and stay warm, not to display art...though I would probably own a Van Gogh if I was obscenely wealthy. And one could argue that a good burrito is as flavorful as the most expensive entree at Chez Maman. I don't know if I'd call either one "art."

As for Casey Kasem, we self-consciously hip teenagers in the late 60s used to make fun of Casey for being the corniest and squarest jock on a fairly hip radio station (KRLA). Who would have guessed he'd be the only KRLA jock to go on to fame and fortune doing AT40 and Shaggy on Scooby Doo? There's that mass appeal thing again.

Keep your feet on the ground, and keep reaching for the stars...
 
LKeller,

What no mention of Ryan Seacrest? I AM STUNNED!!!! Oh wait, we're talking artists here! Thats right, Ryan uses a Wagner Power Painter ;)
 
"What no mention of Ryan Seacrest? I AM STUNNED!!!! Oh wait, we're talking artists here! Thats right, Ryan uses a Wagner Power Painter"

Excuuussee meeee, Production God, but when have I ever mentioned Ryan Seacrest? And when I said Casey Kasem was the only jock from KRLA to become a "star," I forgot Bob Eubanks and Charlie O'Donnell. Now there are a couple of true "artists."
 
Only a true conformist would slobber over a very average jock like Beau Weaver due
to his hairstyle. Back in the day (70's) the long hair stoner look was so typical at
even the most vanilla Top 40 stations, that it was laughable. Here you have a
bunch of dogeared long haired cats, f----ing playing the Captain & Tenille & Neil Sedaka.


Morgan-would have likely bi**h slap Kaye for even mentioning artist and DJ. Its about
influence and innovation. RWM was the first modern Top 40 morning talent. He
had a strong point of view & persona when most Top 40 or Rock morning jocks
were just voices. Steele-was even more talented, He created this character that
was always on, whimsical & charming, yet playing it like an inside joke. Steele
never had a bad day on the radio, the most consistently entertainer of the Top 40.
era.

Al Collins-tremendous originality and KNEW's own house of horrors, Michael Savage a
man who I disagree with politically but has more skills in presentation than any one
else. Artist...I'll let the drooling, NPR types work on that definition.
 
Allowing for the time difference, sleep, travel time to and from work and work itself, I'm now back to answer David's question from my perspective of Robert W. Morgan.

Firstly, this "artist" is my broadcast hero, so I guess you could say I'm biased. Biased or not, the late Robert W. Morgan qualifies as an artist (1) Because of his early mass appeal and rapid rise to some major gigs in major markets. Other very good communicators were often left in their wake as a result of having RWM as a competitor.
(2) Putting ratings to one side, he had the disposition of a star artist. He was absorbed by winning, could be extremely short tempered and acid tongued with his colleagues, all in the name of producing winning STAND OUT radio.
(3) He was multi-skilled as an exceptional narrator ("History Of Rock 'N' Roll"), syndicated host ("The Robert W. Morgan Special Of The Week" and others), TV Presenter (KHJ TV's "The Groovy Show"), TV voice over man ("Solid Gold") and international commercial voice artist.
(4) His radio career saw him achieve major market success in a number of cities, working a number of formats including Nostalgia at KMPC, Top 40 at 93KHJ and Oldies at KRTH. He also covered sporting duties with ease, a skill he later merged smoothly into his LA music radio days. His knowledge and sport commentary, even quick one liners, was both entertaining and topical.
(5) His love of communicating to the unseen masses with incredible empathy was obvious. How many 'other' radio artists working in the 'big time' of Los Angeles or anywhere else for that matter, were so readily identifiable by their calling card ? Robert's "Good Morgan" was embedded in the population's psyche, even though not all of them were necessarily listeners.
(6) He had the "artistic balls" to stand up for what he believed in and expressed it, both on-air and in some verbal tirades off air, with heavyweights like the then KHJ Programme Director/Genius, Ron Jacobs. It was this kind of radio passion and committment that made him a stand out.
(7) Another Robert W. Morgan artist trait was his respect and nurturing of other talented radio team members. Just ask Kevin Gershan, Joni Caryl, Bill Mousis, even Ron Jacobs in Hawaii, whether they would classify RWM as a radio "artist" or simply a successful "jock" (hate that word, but...) and I'm pretty damn sure he'd be paid the former accolade.
(8) He also expanded the boundaries of personality radio as an artist via his great working relationship and friendship with The Real Don Steele (also a great radio artist). The chemistry and respect between those two guys on the one station, often featuring in each other's programmes, e.g KRTH's "Dash For Cash", was sensational.
(9) Further proof of his artistic talent, listener appeal and respect, nearly 10 years after his death, can be found at Uncle Ricky's REELRADIO site (www.reelradio.com). Ironically, the 2 radio artists at the site with the largest repository of work and listener comments are Robert W. Morgan & The Real Don Steele.
(10) Finally, when a radio talent is born to parents with the initials AM & FM (true), there's a very good chance he or she has an artistic future in the business. Hence, the world discovered and loved the radio artist, Robert W. Morgan.

That's it David, my Robert W. Morgan artist "Top 10". You still may not agree with my viewpoint, but I simply couldn't let it be said he did "nothing special" !

Regards,
IAN in Oz.
 
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