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Do Any Stations Turn Off Their Subchannels When Airing The Superbowl?

Studio20 said:
Bill O'Reilly* came on to spar with the President... This tripe has absolutely no business during even this most hyped sporting event.
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This is one of the reasons why I refuse to watch the Super Bowl anymore -- the last few years, it has become the world's largest variety show, with a football game just happening to be there.

So, what did I watch instead of this "blessed event"? Pawn Stars -- I'd rather watch the Old Man spar with Chumlee instead of Bill sparring with Obama.
 
I can tell you WITI in Milwaukee didn't turn off their 6.2 Antenna TV subchannel, and I noticed no difference in quality at all on 6.1 so they bumped down 6.2 to just an airable signal and gave all they could to 6.1.

Of course since WITI expects the largest local market rating in history for last night's game I'm sure they were quite happy to take any 'hey, I'm trying to watch "All in the Family on 6.2 and it's fuzzy" complaints, all none of them :D.
 
tripinva said:
People are just ignoring you and the facts you provide; you are correct. This phenomenon nothing new to Radio-Info.
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Oh, I know that. I just was starting to wonder about myself when people like you and Doug Smith came through here without noting that fact. :D

From what I understand, the Fox affiliation agreement is supposed to prohibit situations like that of WKBN. In WKBN's case, they've actually bypassed the splicer to provide Fox in "HD" at reduced bandwidth levels. That said, it looks like 27-1 is in SD for the day to make 27-2 look as sharp as possible.
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I'm not within range of WKBN, but I heard that as well.

How does New Vision get away with it, if it's prohibited by Fox? They've been doing it for a couple of years now...
 
OhioMediaWatch said:
tripinva said:
People are just ignoring you and the facts you provide; you are correct. This phenomenon nothing new to Radio-Info.
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Oh, I know that. I just was starting to wonder about myself when people like you and Doug Smith came through here without noting that fact. :D
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:) Won't speak for Trip but I'm here to argue with those who get it wrong. Get it right, and you get ignored. :)

From what I understand, the Fox affiliation agreement is supposed to prohibit situations like that of WKBN. In WKBN's case, they've actually bypassed the splicer to provide Fox in "HD" at reduced bandwidth levels. That said, it looks like 27-1 is in SD for the day to make 27-2 look as sharp as possible.
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I'm not within range of WKBN, but I heard that as well.

How does New Vision get away with it, if it's prohibited by Fox? They've been doing it for a couple of years now...
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- As (I hope) I stated elsewhere, I don't think Fox *can* prohibit non-O&O affiliates from running subchannels. I think it would violate the FCC requirement that licensees have sole control over what they air.

- If I'm wrong about that... and Fox *does* prohibit subchannels on non-O&O affiliates... I might presume they made an exception in WKBN's case. If they hadn't made an exception, their OTA presence in the Youngstown market would be a 25kw analog signal...

My information is that the primary Fox affiliate in the Youngstown market is WYFX-CA channel 62. According to Trip's site, WYFX's digital station, authorized on channel 19, is not yet on the air; the station is strictly analog at this point.

I would suggest the presence of Fox in 720p on WKBN 27-2 is a courtesy to Fox. If Fox tried to require WKBN to give all their bandwidth to 27-2, they'd of course have to drop CBS from 27-1. Presumably New Vision has made a business decision that WKBN is more profitable as a CBS affiliate. Or, their CBS contract still has years to run. Or both. In any case, if Fox were to threaten to walk if WKBN continues to share their bandwidth, WKBN would tell Fox to go ahead & walk. And Fox would have no digital OTA presence in the Youngstown market at all.
 
w9wi said:
:) Won't speak for Trip but I'm here to argue with those who get it wrong. Get it right, and you get ignored. :)
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In my case, I dislike arguing in general, and find Radio-Info to be terribly frustrating in how people a number of people don't seem to listen to anything. I find that when I try to correct things, I'm either ignored as though my post didn't exist, or argued with over easily verified facts. So a lot of times I don't bother anymore.

- As (I hope) I stated elsewhere, I don't think Fox *can* prohibit non-O&O affiliates from running subchannels. I think it would violate the FCC requirement that licensees have sole control over what they air.
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They don't prohibit Fox on subchannels. They prohibit airing Fox-HD on subchannels. I believe it's in the network contract though I'm not certain, and there might be a case or two where it's grandfathered. (KXII comes to mind, as they were the first.)

- If I'm wrong about that... and Fox *does* prohibit subchannels on non-O&O affiliates... I might presume they made an exception in WKBN's case. If they hadn't made an exception, their OTA presence in the Youngstown market would be a 25kw analog signal...
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No, it would just be Fox-SD instead of Fox-HD. Could even be Fox in wide SD; a few stations do that. (WBOC comes to mind.)

My information is that the primary Fox affiliate in the Youngstown market is WYFX-CA channel 62. According to Trip's site, WYFX's digital station, authorized on channel 19, is not yet on the air; the station is strictly analog at this point.
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I've been wondering if Fox is okay with a dual-HD setup so long as another affiliate that is not dual-HD is available, including analogs that could go digital. Because I've seen a few cases where it has happened where that could be argued. (KCPQ's 13-1 HD feed airing on KMYQ 22-2, for instance.)

I would suggest the presence of Fox in 720p on WKBN 27-2 is a courtesy to Fox. If Fox tried to require WKBN to give all their bandwidth to 27-2, they'd of course have to drop CBS from 27-1. Presumably New Vision has made a business decision that WKBN is more profitable as a CBS affiliate. Or, their CBS contract still has years to run. Or both. In any case, if Fox were to threaten to walk if WKBN continues to share their bandwidth, WKBN would tell Fox to go ahead & walk. And Fox would have no digital OTA presence in the Youngstown market at all.
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The fact of the matter is that there are a number of Fox affiliates that have done dual-HD or wanted to do dual-HD and not been able to. I remember hearing WBOC was going to be dual-HD and had bought all the gear a number of months ago and it never happened. KCOY tested dual HD and flipped it back after a few days. WLIO was only feeding upconverted SD from Fox over the air even though the rest of the time, 8-2 airs programming in HD. WLUC has not added 6-2 in HD for unspecified "contractual reasons."

Now from what I hear, Fox seemingly doesn't mind the dual HD thing so long as Fox is on the -1 subchannel, oddly enough. This is why WGXA gets away with Fox on 24-1 and ABC on 24-2, and explains why WGBC in Meridian has Fox on 30-1 and NBC on 30-2 even though it was NBC in analog, and the same goes for WAGM with Fox on 8-1 and CBS on 8-2.

The only dual HD case that's on-going that I can't explain away as I did in any of my above comments is Montana. I suspect Fox realized in that case that nobody else would be willing or able to provide Fox-HD and provide it to the whole state the way Max Media is, and went with it on that basis alone.

- Trip
 
w9wi said:
:) Won't speak for Trip but I'm here to argue with those who get it wrong. Get it right, and you get ignored. :)
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Heh. Thank you for the support...at some point I started feeling like a guy pointing to the sky and telling people "it's blue!" while everyone else argued over what shade of red it was. :D

- If I'm wrong about that... and Fox *does* prohibit subchannels on non-O&O affiliates... I might presume they made an exception in WKBN's case. If they hadn't made an exception, their OTA presence in the Youngstown market would be a 25kw analog signal...
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But the bone of contention here is that New Vision is running 27.2 in "bandwidth reduced" 720p. "Fox Youngstown" had been on 27.2 since WKBN went digital, and was in SD originally. But...

My information is that the primary Fox affiliate in the Youngstown market is WYFX-CA channel 62. According to Trip's site, WYFX's digital station, authorized on channel 19, is not yet on the air; the station is strictly analog at this point.
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Correct. "Fox Youngstown" started life as WYFX-LP Youngstown, simulcast on WFXI-CA/ Mercer PA, identified on-air first as "Fox 31/62" (IIRC), and later as "Fox 17/62", WFXI moving to 17.

WFXI signed off the air some time ago, but 62 still remains, and is still technically the primary station - though presumably, almost all OTA viewers now watch "Fox Youngstown" on the much-more-powerful WKBN/27.2.
 
tripinva said:
No, it would just be Fox-SD instead of Fox-HD. Could even be Fox in wide SD; a few stations do that. (WBOC comes to mind.)
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And as I just noted, 27.2 did indeed start as SD (4:3), and was for some time.

Based on what you're saying, maybe it is possible that New Vision will light up RF 19 as primary home for "Fox Youngstown", and then Fox would be OK with it staying in HD on 27.2 as a secondary service?
 
OhioMediaWatch said:
Based on what you're saying, maybe it is possible that New Vision will light up RF 19 as primary home for "Fox Youngstown", and then Fox would be OK with it staying in HD on 27.2 as a secondary service?
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I'm certainly thinking it's a possibility. They may have also argued that there's a significant overlap with WJW, WFXP, and WPGH.

They could also drop 27-2 to wide SD when that happens, allowing CBS back in 1080i.

- Trip
 
tripinva said:
I'm certainly thinking it's a possibility. They may have also argued that there's a significant overlap with WJW, WFXP, and WPGH.
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And that's certainly the case, at least with WJW and WPGH. WFXP, not as much, though it's probably the only Erie market station that has any reach in the far northern end of Trumbull County.

Stations have used the "other service" argument with the FCC. IIRC, either WTRF/7 or WTOV/9 used it to cut analog service early.

In the end, since they've continued to make changes to the WYFX LD displacement app, and they do have a CP for it in digital, I wouldn't be surprised at RF 19 coming online at some point in the future.
 
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