Do they VOTE? With passion and enthusiasm?

[Avid Listener]

You ever hired hands to work on a farm during the harvest season?

Irrelevant. Immaterial. Beside the point. If the nation needs migrant workers, then Congress needs to pass a law permitting migrant workers to come and work. You can blather all you want about why it would be a good thing to have a legal migrant worker program, or to improve the one we already have. As off this moment in time, the problem of illegal aliens who are not harvesting produce but who are instead bringing illegal agricultural products across the border and selling them are a huge problem in America. The number of illegal aliens who are not harvesting produce, but who are putting dozens of children in our public schools and medical centers is a huge problem in America.

If you want to advocate changing the law, advocate changing the law. But attacking my experiences or lack thereof (something you clearly know next to nothing about) has no place in this discussion. They law may need to be change, but until it is changed, it is what it is, and those who violate it are criminals.

 

[TheBigA]

My prediction: No legislation on any major issue, from immigration to the music industry royalty, until after 2016. It's just not worth it to anyone to take any risks. We are status quo for at least two years. Maybe more.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Irrelevant. Immaterial. Beside the point. If the nation needs migrant workers, then Congress needs to pass a law permitting migrant workers to come and work.

But congress doesn't! Hasn't. The farm worker problem is simple compared to the other complexities of immigration. If our system is not robust enough to fix the farm worker problem.... heaven help us when it comes to dealing with the complex and robust problems in the world.

It is relevant. It is material. If you are a farmer. If you are a citizen who likes to eat food. If you would like to drive down the Interstate on vacation and not have a truck full of farm workers who are hunkered down in a cheap, worn-out truck so the police don't spot them, and they plow into your car and kill you... or your children... or your grandchildren.

The number of illegal aliens who are not harvesting produce, but who are putting dozens of children in our public schools and medical centers is a huge problem in America.

Is it a huge problem in America... or is it a great mission opportunity. So tell me Rev. You're retired from being a lay-minister in one of America's reasonably robust liberal denomination of churches. And here you are out on the stage pretending to be a devout conservative. We couldn't get enough missionaries into Mexico to share the Gospel with these folks and maybe get them out of that bad kind of agriculture.... so divine providence is bringing the folks to our country, our school, our medical centers. No need to scrape and save to hire missionaries to send to Mexico. Just run down the street and share the message of the church, Rev.

But attacking my experiences or lack thereof (something you clearly know next to nothing about) has no place in this discussion. They law may need to be change, but until it is changed, it is what it is, and those who violate it are criminals.

Interesting. Both you and that other prolific poster in this forum... what is his name... small minded guy or something like that repeatedly reply to my posts with words to the effect: "Why don't you shut up and quit posting about things you know nothing about!" I just thought that maybe turn about would be fair play.

Both of you have tried to shoot down everything I have posted about Obamacare and the future of medicine in this country. And the response comes back time after time.... "You should quit posting about a topic which you know nothing about." I offered to send SMG my resume related to the delivery of medical care and he refused it. Doesn't want to read it. Apparently is much more comfortable being able to yell: "You don't know what you are talking about."

How about you? You game? It's bit robust and long to post in public. I can send it privately. Hmmmm. Probably not. It would ruin all the fun if it turned out I actually knew a little bit about the subject. And since you protested so quickly, so firmly about my agriculture resume, until you prove otherwise, I will assume the reason you say it is not important is because you may have never had to get up in time to milk the cows before you went off to school.

Damned alarm clocks.... I hate them to this day!!!!

 

[Small Market Guy]

My prediction: No legislation on any major issue, from immigration to the music industry royalty, until after 2016. It's just not worth it to anyone to take any risks. We are status quo for at least two years. Maybe more.

Why bother with legislation when you have a phone and a pen?

 

[Small Market Guy]

what is his name... small minded guy

And this is why no one likes you. You want to try to claim I'm not on the air again?

 

[Small Market Guy]

Huh? I didn't say he shouldn't be held accountable. I said he shouldn't be fired because he wants to open a discussion. And the discussion was never had. A law was never proposed. He was defeated because he merely said something people didn't like. To me, that stifles free speech. It's one thing to being a sponsor of a bill that your constituents don't like. I get that, and I support that. But this never got that far. Making laws isn't a "my way or the highway" thing. It's a process. Give & take. The reason nothing gets done is that no one wants to give or take. And it doesn't help when national radio talk show hosts perpetuate the mythology rather than promote the overall discussion. There is no question that we need to solve the immigration problem, and it won't get solved until Congress sits down and talks about it. We already know how the tea party feels about it. We the people have already had our discussion. It had to be dealt with in legislation, and that step was killed this week.

It was more that just "tea party" people who defeated Cantor. That's what I've been trying to say for the last few days. It might not have been massive numbers of crossover voters like I originally heard, but a lot of everyday rank and file Republicans were sick of Cantor for some reason. Again, it's their prerogative, and the guy they chose to run in November is an intelligent and educated man. He's an economics professor. I'm sure he's perfectly capable of doing the job, so it's not like they just elected some empty suit to go up to Capitol Hill.

Give the guy a chance before doing the Chicken Little routine. Eric Cantor was one of 435 House members. He's not that important.

 

[TheBigA]

Why bother with legislation when you have a phone and a pen?

Then we shouldn't pay their salaries if they're not going to do any work. There's a quick way to save about $200 million. If they want to be like the founding fathers, they can forego all the benefits, because in 1789, Congress worked for free.

Eric Cantor was one of 435 House members. He's not that important.

He's the House Majority Leader, one step below the Speaker, who's 3rd in line to the President. Sorry, but it IS important. The main thing is he had seniority, which means something in Congress. The new guy will be a freshman, which means he has no power to do anything. But then again, his supporters don't want him to do anything. He's an economics professor who's never held elective office.

 

[Small Market Guy]

Then we shouldn't pay their salaries if they're not going to do any work. There's a quick way to save about $200 million. If they want to be like the founding fathers, they can forego all the benefits, because in 1789, Congress worked for free.

Sometimes gridlock is a good thing. This is one of those times. The phone and pen stuff isn't because Congress isn't doing their jobs. It's because they ARE.

 

[TheBigA]

Sometimes gridlock is a good thing. This is one of those times. The phone and pen stuff isn't because Congress isn't doing their jobs. It's because they ARE.

As I said, then they shouldn't get paid. I don't want my tax money paying people who don't work, and who shut down the government. That's irresponsible.

 

[Small Market Guy]

As I said, then they shouldn't get paid. I don't want my tax money paying people who don't work, and who shut down the government. That's irresponsible.

As I said. They ARE doing their jobs. They didn't "shut down government". Just because they're not giving you what YOU want doesn't mean they're not doing their job.

 

[TheBigA]

As I said. They ARE doing their jobs. They didn't "shut down government". Just because they're not giving you what YOU want doesn't mean they're not doing their job.

It's not about what *I* want...it's about what the Constitution says they're supposed to do. They haven't passed a budget. Most of the time, they're not in session. They haven't fixed any of the problems they're complaining about or blaming the President for. And yes, they allowed the government to shut down, and they took glee in watching it get shut. I saw it on TV. House members giddy with excitement.

And let me make this clear: I'm not just talking about Republicans, but also Democrats. They have done absolutely nothing for anyone. Not you, not me, not anyone, except themselves. I just want them to show up. I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

[Small Market Guy]

It's not about what *I* want...it's about what the Constitution says they're supposed to do. They haven't passed a budget.

Harry Reid.

Most of the time, they're not in session.

You do realize they have to go home and meet with constituents during those days "off" right? Congress was in session 113 days last year. That doesn't mean they are only "working" 113 days.

They haven't fixed any of the problems they're complaining about or blaming the President for.

Harry Reid. The House is all out of phones and pens. So the ONLY thing they can do is gridlock.

And yes, they allowed the government to shut down, and they took glee in watching it get shut. I saw it on TV. House members giddy with excitement.

Those evil House Republicans put up barriers at the Vietnam memorial! Damn them!

I guess they should just completely cave and give the president and Harry Reid every single thing they want. Compromise takes movement from BOTH sides. We're not seeing that from Mr. Phone and Pen. Not a bit.

And let me make this clear: I'm not just talking about Republicans, but also Democrats. They have done absolutely nothing for anyone. Not you, not me, not anyone, except themselves. I just want them to show up. I don't think that's too much to ask.

You may think you're not taking sides, but every single thing in this post sure makes it sound like you are.

The fact is the majority of the members in the House were sent to Washington to specifically throw a stick in the spokes of the administration and Senate. Sorry you don't like that, but it's what they were sent for. They're doing their jobs.

 

[TheBigA]

The fact is the majority of the members in the House were sent to Washington to specifically throw a stick in the spokes of the administration and Senate. Sorry you don't like that, but it's what they were sent for. They're doing their jobs.

Show me where in the Constitution is says that's their job. Show me.

 

[boombox4]

Show me where in the Constitution is says that's their job. Show me.

You don't need the Constitution to prove that. Congressmen and women are representatives of the people who elected them. If polls of the people who elected the Republicans into the House show that they wanted those representatives to oppose the direction the Democrats were taking the country -- they were "doing their jobs".

I would guess that if someone polled the electorate in those districts that placed the Republicans in control of the House, you would find they were reacting to the bailout of the big banks and GM (whether you agree with it or not, or whether it was necessary or not, it was controversial for many people -- not just conservative talk hosts), and the ACA.

Just as Harry Reid is "doing his job" by opposing the Republicans in Congress, or promoting Democratic party policies and platforms.

 

[Avid Listener]

It is relevant. It is material. If you are a farmer. If you are a citizen who likes to eat food. If you would like to drive down the Interstate on vacation and not have a truck full of farm workers who are hunkered down in a cheap, worn-out truck so the police don't spot them, and they plow into your car and kill you... or your children... or your grandchildren.

It is irrelevant and immaterial in this venue. You're the one who launched the thread lamenting the fact that we're discussing political issues instead of news/talk radio, but when I point out that what you're posting in this thread has nothing to do with news/talk radio, you change your tune. I don't much care what position you want to pick, but whatever you pick, you should stick with.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

You don't need the Constitution to prove that. Congressmen and women are representatives of the people who elected them. If polls of the people who elected the Republicans into the House show that they wanted those representatives to oppose the direction the Democrats were taking the country -- they were "doing their jobs".

There are two parallel organizations on the North American Continent with a lot of common heritage; one civil and one religious.

When our nation was founded, Presbyterians represented a much larger portion of the population than they do today. There are some historians who will point out that during those turbulent days in the late 1700's when we were trying to hammer out a form of governance for this nation that the framers of the Constitution turned to the Presbys in their midst and said: You folks seem to have a governing system that works effectively. Help us for a government that uses some of the mechanics you folks are using.

If was a different era. No phones, no telegraph. Being a representative (or senator) involved being away from home for extended periods of time, exploring issues with your fellow elected representatives (and senators). No flying home for the week-end to consult with the people you represent.

To this day, when Presbyterians meet nationally, as they will in Detroit this Summer, the COMMISSIONERS (laymen and ministers) will have been trained and reminded that the tradition is: You have been elected to 'vote your conscience' based on the testimony and discussion and knowledge that YOU have. (The people back home have not set through the discussion and exploration.)

200 years ago, This church governance which served as a model, and the civil government worked on that basis. You are here to govern. We will explore, we will debate, and then we will vote.

It isn't easy. You have a lot of "people in the pews" who either have not been exposed to this concept, or refuse to accept the concept, but in this little parallel universe to our civil government, if you are elected to be at that meeting in Detroit your instructions are: Go do the right thing. Do not sit around wonder what the people back home might be thinking you ought to be doing. Just get it done.

That used to be the way government worked. But in this day of air travel, telephones, e-mail and industrial strength lobby groups, we have this concept being expressed in this thread: "If the voters back home elected you to go to Washington and be a jackass, then it is your duty and obligation to go and be a jackass... even when you can see that it is leading to the destruction of the system we think is the best in the world."

Maybe we should do away with congress. Every citizen has or can get to a computer owned by someone in the family. Let the people vote on EVERYTHING. Right from home. That sounds like something we assume the Democrats would dream up and support. The poor little old lady on welfare gets the same vote by hitting ENTER on her computer that Warren Buffett gets when he sits home and hits enter.

But here we are in the 21st Century and look: Its the REPUBLICANS who want emasculated Representatives and Senators who are nothing more than an appliciance at the Washington end of a bunch of mouse-clicks back home.

Is that the vision of Representative Democracy you guys are pushing? That IS the vision of Representative Democracy that Talk Radio is not only defending, but implementing and orchestrating.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

And this is why no one likes you.

Some people don't like me???? Wow. I am surprised. And I work so hard to be likeable. <choke, gag, cough>


I don't come to a discussion to just "go with the flow", to be liked, to create a following that might elect me to be a "director of the discussion board".

I'm just a citizen at a Town Hall meeting who pays attention to what is not being said, but needs to be said. I'm just a citizen at a Town Hall meeting who is crusty enough to observe what the people up on the stage are skirting and dodging and like a cowboy out on the range, guide an 'ornery' bull right into the gate of a corral he is doing his best to dodge and avoid.

But if you ever went to a Town Hall Meeting with me, you might be mystified that when the meeting is over, I head right for the 'ornery' bull, offer him a hand shake and a smile, and we have a constructive conversation from which we both walk away from a bit happier and a bit smarter.

Talk Radio (and it's personalities) on the other hand are more like World War II Kamikaze Pilots who know they have failed if they walk away from such an event healthy and smiling.

That's my whole purpose here. How do we come up with a vaccination that turns Talk Radio into something healthy, something that has a future.

(We just had a solemn reunion and observance at the site of the battle of Normandy Beach. I don't ever recall reading about a reunion of the Kamikaze pilots.)

 

[TheBigA]

You don't need the Constitution to prove that.

If you're running as a Constitutionalist, you do.

Just as Harry Reid is "doing his job" by opposing the Republicans in Congress, or promoting Democratic party policies and platforms.

He's just one guy out of 100. Why is he the bad guy but Eric Cantor isn't important?

You want to know why the majority of people have given up on talk radio? This is why. Finger pointing, blaming, obstruction, party politics, and meanwhile the people and the country suffer. These posts read like what people hear every day on talk radio. Same talking points. Pointing at Harry Reid isn't leadership. It's not doing your job. It's not solving problems. And it's not serving the public.

 

[Avid Listener]

Some myths about Congress are again circulating. The Founding Fathers created a Federal system that split power between the states and the people. The Senate was the house in the legislature that represented the states, with each Senator appointed by and answering to his respective state legislature. The House of Representatives was to represent the people in his district, who elected him. Senators and Representatives were both expected to use their own discretion and judgement, since there would always be issues that arose after elections and that constituents couldn't comment on in time. However, they were also elected based on their stated opinions of what they stood for, so that when voting for a Representative, one should have a fairly good idea of how he'd exercise his judgement.

That system lasted until almost 1796, when political parties arose. The British parliamentary system of ministers following their party's leadership is a natural state for elective legislative bodies. Conflicts can only be resolved through negotiation and compromise, and that requires some degree of coordination and leadership. Hence, the rise of political parties. When an elected official refuses to follow the leadership of the rank-and-file in his party, he should expect to be "fired" in the primary election. Don't be surprised to see more RINOs get fired this way.

 

[Silkie]

I grew up on a cotton farm... before machines picked the cotton. My father was promising the people who slipped across the river to pick our cotton that one of these days we were going to make it possible and legal for them to cross the border with dignity and not have to run and hide in the cactus and mesquite woods every time a big black car came wandering through the fields looking for people without legal status to be here. There was a short period of time when there was a Bracero Program and it was a laugh. But here we are... 60 years later and our legislators have never gotten serious about fixing the problem. Even before legislators had Conservative Radio looking over their shoulder ready to tattle about bad behavior in the legislature, they didn't have the cajones to get the job done. (You learn words like that when you are a kid on a cotton and vegetable farm. )

Long before I ever thought about becoming the Goat Rodeo Cowboy, these field laborers gave me my very own, my first "nome de plum"... I was El Chico Patron.

So, do people with their very own first nom de plume vote under all of their very own pen names with passion and enthusiasm? And do they do it in the nonexistent shadows, or just show up and vote? Last I checked I had not waived any of the provisions of the United States Constitution. But enough about our United States Marine who sits in a filthy Mexican prison for no valid reason. Oh, wait, they haven't changed their laws, even for accidental visitors.