Do WHAT from a Club?

[startel]

It's been so long since I've done a club remote I don't know what the most sublime method of hauling stereo back to the studio is today. If I had to do it tomorrow, I'd get two Nexi sets and ISDN lines, but that seems like a very heavy handed method for three hours a week.

Obviously, everyone's excited about the Barix boxes, but before I pretend to be up to date, I wanted to see what the great and near-great minds have tried. We have access to cable modem and/or 3G "MediaNet" and a nice solid area to tie something down permanently. Cable modem promises 6Mps, so of course the speed test I just ran shows 2M down and .5M up. :-\

Suggestions on how to get low with the music?

 

[littlejohn]

Well, if you can bitch at the cable co and get the bandwidth, Apt or Barix or Tieline or the new Telos boxes will do well. If you can't, try for ISDN and Zephyrs. The current portable Zephyr (Xtreme, I believe) has mixer, mix - minus, and monitor feeds built in. You can do a two talent plus house feed show with it alone.

 

[kyscott]

I'm using a 1.5 Meg DSL on a couple of Barix boxes for a stereo STL for an FM station. You can't tell the difference. 2 Meg cable should work. You might also check the modem. I replaced my 10 year old Motorola with a new SB5100 and get 10 meg steady through out the day. A new modem might give you the 6 meg. Either way, 2 meg should work fine for you.

 

[menotti1]

kyscott, is this for primary stl or backup? What codec (files)are you using? Guess i'll be checking out the new Barix 1000 soon and try that for primary stl using PCM.

 

[kyscott]

kyscott, is this for primary stl or backup? What codec (files)are you using? Guess i'll be checking out the new Barix 1000 soon and try that for primary stl using PCM.

Primary. I use MP3 at 32kHz. Bellsouth and their 8kc program loop got too unreliable for me, and they don't have anyone in the state of Kentucky that knows how to repair them when they go down!

 

[menotti1]

interesting.do you hear any artifacts in the stream? That was my main concern about using mp3 for primary stl.is your processor at the xmtr or studio?the newer barix 1000 should be a hot product for stl using pcm files.

 

[ChiefOperator]

These Barix boxes are becoming very popular. The price is hard to beat. I wonder whether the competitors are getting nervous....

 

[littlejohn]

We're investigating the next generation of program delivery in anticipation of ISDN going away. We have 16 Zephyrs of various vintage in service plus a handful of Comrex POTS CODECS. Our current research has as I understand it come down to Barix and Tieline. It isn't my decision, but given the current performance, the nod is to Barix for dedicated and Tieline for remotes. Subject, of course, to change when someone sends us something else to evaluate.

 

[kyscott]

interesting.do you hear any artifacts in the stream? That was my main concern about using mp3 for primary stl.is your processor at the xmtr or studio?the newer barix 1000 should be a hot product for stl using pcm files.

Nope, no artifacts. I had two engineers surprised to hear that I was running it on the internet like I am because you really can't tell. I have another client running an AM on a crappy program loop. I can't wait to get him on a Barix stream!

 

[Andyf101]

interesting.do you hear any artifacts in the stream? That was my main concern about using mp3 for primary stl.is your processor at the xmtr or studio?the newer barix 1000 should be a hot product for stl using pcm files.

Nope, no artifacts. I had two engineers surprised to hear that I was running it on the internet like I am because you really can't tell. I have another client running an AM on a crappy program loop. I can't wait to get him on a Barix stream!

I'm skeptical, because you're using 32K MP3's. MP3's are generally poor quality for broadcast. I'd recommend you change to 44.1K .wav (32K .wav if you really have to).

Andy

 

[dtube1]

I'm skeptical, because you're using 32K MP3's. MP3's are generally poor quality for broadcast. I'd recommend you change to 44.1K .wav (32K .wav if you really have to).

Andy

Andy, they're discussing live streaming audio - not music playback formats.
-D

 

[kyscott]

interesting.do you hear any artifacts in the stream? That was my main concern about using mp3 for primary stl.is your processor at the xmtr or studio?the newer barix 1000 should be a hot product for stl using pcm files.

Nope, no artifacts. I had two engineers surprised to hear that I was running it on the internet like I am because you really can't tell. I have another client running an AM on a crappy program loop. I can't wait to get him on a Barix stream!

I'm skeptical, because you're using 32K MP3's. MP3's are generally poor quality for broadcast. I'd recommend you change to 44.1K .wav (32K .wav if you really have to).

Thanks for your unsolicited recommendation, however I know what sounds good and this 32k MP3 stream sounds just as good as any RF STL I have heard. This is an MP3 stream, not an audio file.

 

[gunterm]

I think when they say 32k mp3 they mean 32khz sampling rate, not 32kbps because that sounds like AM radio...

 

[Andyf101]

I'm skeptical, because you're using 32K MP3's. MP3's are generally poor quality for broadcast. I'd recommend you change to 44.1K .wav (32K .wav if you really have to).

Andy

Andy, they're discussing live streaming audio - not music playback formats.
-D

My interpretation was this setup was being used as an STL for a studio to transmitter, or remote site back to the studio. If either of these is the intended method here, it's not good quality for an OTA radio broadcast.

Andy

 

[Andyf101]

interesting.do you hear any artifacts in the stream? That was my main concern about using mp3 for primary stl.is your processor at the xmtr or studio?the newer barix 1000 should be a hot product for stl using pcm files.

Nope, no artifacts. I had two engineers surprised to hear that I was running it on the internet like I am because you really can't tell. I have another client running an AM on a crappy program loop. I can't wait to get him on a Barix stream!

I'm skeptical, because you're using 32K MP3's. MP3's are generally poor quality for broadcast. I'd recommend you change to 44.1K .wav (32K .wav if you really have to).

Thanks for your unsolicited recommendation, however I know what sounds good and this 32k MP3 stream sounds just as good as any RF STL I have heard. This is an MP3 stream, not an audio file.

A stream for what? Internet-only radio, or is this for a terrestrial broadcast application?

Andy

 

[menotti1]

I understand it is being used for primary STL for FM broadcast.If he claims its sounds as good as analog STL,so be it,He is there to hear it,we're not.Really it wouldn't take much to sound better than some of the analog 950 STL links i've heard.

 

[ChiefOperator]

As gunterm has mentioned, I believe the disagreement over the quality of the stream is based on the definition of "32k"

I believe the STL is running a SAMPLING RATE of 32kHz. I think some are confusing this rate with the lower quality 32kbps.

In other words, the 32k STL is "kHz" not "kbps"

 

[Andyf101]

My primary point here is not really sampling rate or kbps rate. But in some ways, they are related.

It's really about the MP3 aspect of it. For an STL, MP3 is not the way to go. It doesn't matter how you "think" it sounds, unless you have a full understanding of how encoding and decoding works and how many levels of encoding and decoding occur within the chain.

So, for example, you "might" be able to get away with an MP3 stream from point A to point B, so long as all of your audio source material from the originating point is linear PCM WAV format.

But let's say you're doing a live broadcast from a club, and feeding it back to the station. The station in turn uses a digital STL to get the audio to the transmitter.

From the club, you stream MP3 audio, back to the studio. That's the first level of the encoding to decoding process. Then the audio gets encoded and decoded again from the studio to the transmitter.

By the time that mess hits the radio, the audio quality will leave a foul taste in the listener's mouth.

So my point here is, MP3 is not the way to go, regardless of sample rate and kbps rate.

Andy

 

[menotti1]

Chief, i believe that is correct, as well...

 

[dtube1]

Andy, they're discussing live streaming audio - not music playback formats.
-D

My interpretation was this setup was being used as an STL for a studio to transmitter, or remote site back to the studio. If either of these is the intended method here, it's not good quality for an OTA radio broadcast.
Andy
[/quote]
They are discussing a Barix product that streams audio in the context of using it for an STL app. Your mention of a file format (wav) indicated that you were referring to recorded music - not an audio streaming format. Perhaps you were referring to digital STL's that ship linear, uncompressed audio with selectable sampling rates of 32khz, 44.1khz, or 48khz? If that's the case, you were objecting to using a 32khz sampling rate, ostensibly because the audio would be low-passed at 16khz. If you were referring to streaming formats, then as others have said, you were probably objecting to a 32kbps rate (which I'm sure everyone would agree makes for crappy audio). The Barix unit offers several different streaming formats for audio delivery. The OP is using an mp3 format at 192kbps (I think that's the stock setting?) with the audio sampled at 32khz.
-D
P.S. I posted this as Andy was posting his previous reply.