Do You Really Care About Radio?

[oldies76]

So, that reclusive sociopath who never leaves home

Extreme and a wrong assumption

It's all about the music to that person and if they want to hear something they have not heard in ages.....play it. It's all about satisfaction and if radio can't even do that, then why be in business?

SFStatic mentioned a structured approach......I agree, just as long as the song is played within a reasonable amount of time, within a 1/2 hour.

 

[DavidKaye]

Who says it has to be a low charting stiff?? It could be a #1 song that is rarely heard. But if a classic hits station plays classics, then any listener should have the ability and right to call in and request a classic.....period!Is the station in it for the people or only for themselves? Sounds like the later.

I have just done a SQL of a list of hits and it's surprising how many #1 tunes are very bland or vapid MOR songs.

Hang On Sloopy
I’m Henry The VIII, I Am
Everybody Loves Somebody (Dean Martin)
Roses Are Red (My Love) and Blue Velvet (Bobby Vinton)
Hello Goodbye (Beatles)
To Sir With Love (Lulu)
(They Long To Be) Close To You (Carpenters)
Black & White (Three Dog Night)
Killing Me Softly With His Song
and...Seasons In The Sun

Are you sure you really want to hear this stuff? I'll admit there are some good ones out there that aren't played much, but there's also a lot of floor sweepings that also managed to reach #1 (for a week anyway).

And YOU are assuming it would piss many others, when their is no factual proof that it would.

David Eduardo is no stranger to running radio stations.

 

[TheBigA]

Is the station in it for the people or only for themselves? Sounds like the later.

"The people" is plural. You're talking about one person. Or a small group of individuals who, from my experience, already own the songs they're requesting.

The people want to hear a hit the minute they tune in. If they hear an album cut because it was a request, the station will lose "the people" in order to satisfy one person.

 

[oldies76]

Are you sure you really want to hear this stuff? I'll admit there are some good ones out there that aren't played much, but there's also a lot of floor sweepings that also managed to reach #1 (for a week anyway).

Every song that was a hit in the past, whether a hit at #1 or #20, should be "available" (and available is the key word here) to air. Yes, I agree that the more popular music should air more frequently, but all the others, even the ones on the list you provided, should be "available".

"Available" meaning, to air if requested by a listener, or aired once every two or three weeks or featured in a weekend specialty, or even played overnight.

Every classic should be "available" to air.

btw, You listed a Beatles song as questionable, you still hear them once an hour on KRTH.

 

[oldies76]

"The people" is plural. You're talking about one person. Or a small group of individuals who, from my experience, already own the songs they're requesting.

The people want to hear a hit the minute they tune in. If they hear an album cut because it was a request, the station will lose "the people" in order to satisfy one person.

The people meaning, anyone who calls and requests a song, or just the listeners in general.

Listeners will always choose what they like or want to hear, they'll turn off the radio, walk away or stay put, no matter which song they like or dislike, even the tested songs. Every person has a favorite song and some of those personal favorites are rarely, if ever aired today.

If only 15% of the songs (1960's to the 80's) that were hits (#1-20) are aired today, what about the other 85%? Maybe 3/4 of those other hits are favorites of others, ever think of that?

 

[TheBigA]

If only 15% of the songs (1960's to the 80's) that were hits (#1-20) are aired today, what about the other 85%? Maybe 3/4 of those other hits are favorites of others, ever think of that?

I think about it all the time. And as I said, those songs tend to be in their personal libraries, as they are in mine. But radio doesn't program to individuals...it programs to the mass. And the mass is more interested in the 15%. The other songs weren't hits, and it's been my experience, based on conversations with artists, that they don't get performed in shows either. I also look at set-lists from shows when deciding radio playlists. If the artist who recorded the song isn't performing it for his fans, that should tell you something.

 

[oldies76]

It's the same reason why multiple studies have shown that iPod libraries are either about 300 songs in size or the favorite playlist is around 300 songs.

People don't spend hundred of dollars to buy an iPod, just to hold 300 songs...more like 3000 or more. Mine has 5600 and growing.....

 

[davideduardo]

People don't spend hundred of dollars to buy an iPod, just to hold 300 songs...more like 3000 or more. Mine has 5600 and growing.....

As I said, there are a number of studies that have been done that show that the average number of songs on an iPod or equivalent device is about 300.

Very few people have 5000 songs and even fewer actually listen to all of them.

I've programmed everything from Top 40 in Birmingham and Phoenix to Album Rock in Buenos Aires to Salsa in Puerto Rico and AC in LA and Indigenous music in Ecuador.... and Beautiful Music in 17 countries. I recently went through the roughly 10 thousand songs I have collected, and found that there were fewer than 1000 that I want to hear over again with any regularity. Brown Eyed Girl is one of them... go figure.

 

[davideduardo]

Who says it has to be a low charting stiff?? It could be a #1 song that is rarely heard. But if a classic hits station plays classics, then any listener should have the ability and right to call in and request a classic.....period!Is the station in it for the people or only for themselves? Sounds like the later.

I learned, like most people who have paid dues in the studio, that a huge percentage of requests are not even from listeners. Otherwise, explain the request for the song you are playing right now? Or the one for the song you played in the last half-hour? Or the song that would not fit in your format even if forced with K-Y Jelly?

Once you learn that basic fact, you learn to "stage" requests... you may get, let's say, 20 in an hour. You pick the one with the best sound bite and which requests a song you are going to play... and you drop the "request" over the ramp and you get... drum roll... involvement. Not a request, but involvement.

And most of those songs that may have been "hits" on somebody's chart way back when are stiffs today. Nearly nobody wants to hear them, many are embarrassed by them, and most everyone near their radio tunes out for them. By definition: stiffs.

And YOU are assuming it would piss many others, when their is no factual proof that it would.

There is loads of factual proof, ranging from negative scores on music tests and callout and web based testing to MediaBase MScores which show how many of your listeners tune out at the exact moment one of those songs plays.

Guess what? We don't play those songs. We also don't play with un-pinned grenades for the same reason. Harmful.

I'm sure many in the 3 million, walk away when "Brown Eyed Girl" is played for the 17th time in a weeks span too.

Actually, if well rotated, and assuming a P1 listenership of about 8 hours a week to a station like WCBS-FM, that average listener is only going to hear the song once a week, if that, with 17 spins.

And If there were any significant tune out, they would see it in negatives on their tests and MScore timelines that reflect rejection. Instead, they see the song as one that people love to hear when they go for a classic hits fix.

Like I have said many times before and I'll say it again....EVERY song is someone's favorite, some more popular than others.

But when 1% likes a song and 99% detest it, will you sacrifice your audience, your image, your investment and your future revenue to make a point?

And that point is pretty much, based on your statements, the equivalent of flipping the bird at successful radio stations. It's the radio equivalent of farting in church.

 

[oldies76]

But when 1% likes a song and 99% detest it, will you sacrifice your audience, your image, your investment and your future revenue to make a point?

And that point is pretty much, based on your statements, the equivalent of flipping the bird at successful radio stations. It's the radio equivalent of farting in church.

But do you really think a "stiff" played once in a while (by request, weekend special, overnights) will really, truly impact things? All I'm asking, is to play mainly popular oldies with a few deeper cuts once in a while...I don't believe it would make much difference.

If a station played "stiffs" 80% of the time, that's another whole enchilada...that's not what I'm asking for.

You make it sound by playing even ONE stiff or several, it'll ultimately destroy a station....

 

[davideduardo]

But do you really think a "stiff" played once in a while (by request, weekend special, overnights) will really, truly impact things? All I'm asking, is to play mainly popular oldies with a few deeper cuts once in a while...I don't believe it would make much difference.

There is an immediate effect of instantly driving off some of the listeners. There is a long range effect of diminishing the image of the station and the desire to return to it more often.

In competitive markets, particularly PPM ones, giving a listener a chance to select one of the many alternatives they have and already use is very dangerous. Keep in mind that the PPM shows the average listener using about 6 stations in any 7 day period... they have multiple favorites, and if one is less pleasing, it gets less weekly time.

If a station played "stiffs" 80% of the time, that's another whole enchilada...that's not what I'm asking for.

If a classic hits station can find 700 to 800 songs that are almost universally liked and, at worst, neutral, why would they want to put a bunch of songs that are less liked and more detested on the air? They gain "points" with no one by doing that.

You make it sound by playing even ONE stiff or several, it'll ultimately destroy a station....

One stiff at a time, over time, will kill a station. Either lower usage, or selection of alternatives will do it.

As an example, at one location where I live, there is an oldies station that even still plays "Indian Reservation" and, although I will listen to an oldies or classic hits station among my choices for OTA radio, that one has so many songs that neither have memories nor are pleasant to listen to today that I don't listen to them at all.

Based on experience doing research on many, many thousands of people, I can say that even playing the right songs in the wrong blend can be very damaging...

 

[oldies76]

As an example, at one location where I live, there is an oldies station that even still plays "Indian Reservation" and, although I will listen to an oldies or classic hits station among my choices for OTA radio, that one has so many songs that neither have memories nor are pleasant to listen to today that I don't listen to them at all.

Based on experience doing research on many, many thousands of people, I can say that even playing the right songs in the wrong blend can be very damaging...

Interestingly though, it's the rarely played music that keeps me listening to our local oldies stations. I've heard the popular ones many times, so I don't mind a change sometimes. I can get carried away sometimes, but I think you know my position on classic hits. Your insights really, have been informative, whether I agree or not....

 

[Fastphilly]

There was a comment about stiffs or songs that never get played. I was shocked yesterday when Parker Lewis on Oldies 103.7 played Eddie Rabbitt "Driving My Life Away". It was on Saturday afternoon about 4:30PM..I was floored that it got played. You never hear that one played anymore. I remember buying the 45 at Montgomery Ward when I was a kid

 

[1069_KIFR]

Now you cannot ever say that, that song NEVER gets played! Now it moves into the rarely category. Congrats!

 

[HCochet]

93 responses and only one person answered the question with a clear yes or no.
"do you care...?"
I guess I'm the only one. I don't know why you all join a radio forum when you don't care about radio.

 

[landtuna]

93 responses and only one person answered the question with a clear yes or no.
"do you care...?"
I guess I'm the only one. I don't know why you all join a radio forum when you don't care about radio.

I can only recall one response in which the poster said they cared more for Internet and satellite radio more than OTA radio.

That the thread has drawn this much response seems to indicate to me that they do care and take time to indicate to others just how much they care.

 

[TheRover]

Good riddance, with the constant commercials, constant playing of the same songs over and over. Why even listen? I can just go Satellite or Download an infinite amount of song to my Ipod playlist that hooks up to my car. My car actually can play music via bluetooth now. I have no use at all for the garbage that is played on commercial radio.

Radio simply lacks creativity.

Actually, there's a LOT of creativity in radio today. That creativity, is in hte jingle selection, the contest selction, the promotions, the drops, but, unfortunately, there is -0- creativity in the music selection.

No fault to the "DJs", as the music they play is picked for them. IF the DJs are really good, they can make it sound like they too are excited about what music Master Control has picked.

As to "sociopaths" that were referenced earlier in the thread, I consider the listeners to Classic Rock Rock radio, and the songs that are Programmed for that venture, the true sociopaths.

I find radio music selections totally bland or totally weird.

There is no middle ground, just the perverse music of the non-commerical stations, and, the vanilla sameness of corporate radio.

Once uppn a time, there used to be room on the dial for at least -one- progressive station. Do all stations on the dial make the same amount of money, or, even have the same anout of overhead -- No.

I care about culture. And there is no progressive culture on radio.

Just a morass for the masses. And this is by design, I believe.

 

[TheBigA]

Just a morass for the masses. And this is by design, I believe.

Of course it is. That's why it's called mass media.

 

[davideduardo]

Once uppn a time, there used to be room on the dial for at least -one- progressive station. Do all stations on the dial make the same amount of money, or, even have the same anout of overhead -- No.

Progressive rock stations existed until tighter, more structured AOR stations in the Abrams "Superstars" model came and whacked them to death.

Once they were no longer making money, there was no room for them.

 

[TheBigA]

Once they were no longer making money, there was no room for them.

Progressive rock is a fine format for a non-profit station. Because that's what they are. Find someone to pay for them, and they're lots of fun. Until the money runs out.