Do You Really Care About Radio?

[Tom Wells]

If someone requests any classic hit on a classic hits station, they should have the right to hear it, no matter what song it is.

Let's see... the cume of a classic hits station in a top 5 market could be as high as 3 million people.

So, that reclusive sociopath who never leaves home, but who remembers some low-charting stiff from the late 60's because it was playing the only time in his life a girl ever kissed him, has the "right" to piss off the other 3,000,000 listeners who hate the song or simply don't remember it?

The lessons are:
A. Don't let sociopaths have phones.
B. Don't take requests.
C. Don't play stiffs.

It's not a lesson. It's a chance for radio to make that one-to-one (or many) connection, and a great DJ would somehow
bring everyone to the memory of their first kiss with that opportunity.

Music discovery is much like travel. You may or may not like what you find there, but if the trip's not worth taking, don't
complain about the scenery at home.


To address the original question, yes I care deeply about radio, I simply can't imagine myself or what I'd be without radio.

 

[DavidKaye]

Music discovery is much like travel. You may or may not like what you find there, but if the trip's not worth taking, don't
complain about the scenery at home.

Americans are funny when it comes to new experiences: They don't want them. I once worked upstairs from the Powell Street cable car turntable. I saw tourists several times every day. Do they want the down-home dining experience? No, they want McDonald's. Do they want the locally-owned boutique hotel? No, they want a Marriott. Do they want to walk down the street and take in the sights? No, they want tour bus drivers to drag them around and show them pre-packaged sights.

In fact, many people say that they don't particularly like McDonald's but they go because it's a familiar experience.

Whereas the BBC and other national broadcasters in other countries would play a variety of music on their DJ shows -- a rock song, followed by a showtune, followed by a ballad, etc., in this country that kind of format just doesn't work. People want all rock or all country or all hip-hop.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I've observed that most American businesses favor quantity over quality. Muzak was a perfect example. Thank God I no longer find it forced into my ears where I shop, eat, and work anymore. (And an mp3 player helps me get thru supermarkets on my own wavelength...)
We're not all the same, even if we happen to fall into a particular age bracket. Many of us like different experiences, and go out of our way to read reviews from trusted bloggers and columnists, and want to discover what's unique and compelling about a particular place we visit, and sometime where we live. Many of us get sick on McDonald's food. Some of us don't even eat what they offer. Likewise, I find very little curiosity and sense of discovery anymore in American radio. I'm amazed that so many on this board scoff at it, as if it's stupid to be intellectual, and a threat to their dreams of owning more stuff.

I'm surprised so few commercial radio licensees and ad buyers appear to use and understand how the old "Prizm/Cluster Plus" marketing categories could help you identify and appeal to different affinity groups within your market. Thinking that you're buying "men 25-34" really doesn't mean much. But men of that age with a college degree and a taste for imported beer who live in certain zip codes and own their own homes will have a lot more in common, and can be marketed together, with women age 45-54 who share similar tastes and traits. More than men of the same age with different incomes and education. It requires a little more work, a little more savvy, to go deeper, and to parse things into more targeted niches.
We all know that many commercial radio folks are too harried, and frankly often too superficial, to engage their programming in anything that isn't pre-packaged and already was successful somewhere else. Which is why we get "both kinds of music" now on the radio. And it's a crying shame, for audiences who don't listen anymore, and for those of us who have given most of our adult lives to an industry that only a "chosen few" corporate types get to control now.

 

[TheBigA]

We all know that many commercial radio folks are too harried, and frankly often too superficial, to engage their programming in anything that isn't pre-packaged and already was successful somewhere else. Which is why we get "both kinds of music" now on the radio. And it's a crying shame, for audiences who don't listen anymore, and for those of us who have given most of our adult lives to an industry that only a "chosen few" corporate types get to control now.

I don't know...maybe I'm just lucky, but this doesn't really reflect my professional experience. My biggest disappointment is taking a risk on a format that audiences claim to want, only to discover they were lying. Or perhaps not as committed to it as we hoped.

 

[oldies76]

It's a chance for radio to make that one-to-one (or many) connection, and a great DJ would somehow bring everyone to the memory of their first kiss with that opportunity.

That's exactly right....that one on one connection, is that special song that someone remembers whether it's from 1963 or 1983.

Tom, radio used to be that way, even on KRTH, but unfortunately times have changed and it's more like quartz rocks today, instead of nerf footballs, meaning hardly any flexibility.

If that memory involved playing a so-called "stiff" from the late 60's, then by all means....play it.
Radio should be for the people....they are the ones listening afterall. And hey, if that memory happens to drive away a couple listeners in the process, oh well.

Every song is someone's favorite, remember that.

 

[DavidKaye]

I've observed that most American businesses favor quantity over quality. Muzak was a perfect example. Thank God I no longer find it forced into my ears where I shop, eat, and work anymore.

I don't think you'd know Muzak if you heard it. In ye olden days, they produced instrumental versions of popular tunes. Today they use the original tracks. Muzak doesn't sound much different from Sirius/XM, DMX, or any other commercial music service. I believe they still use their "work flow" programming concept (different tempos and moods for different dayparts in order to stimulate work or create relaxation during stress hours).

Muzak and other commercial services were designed for specific kinds of audiences, but mass audiences nonetheless.

What I find funny about in-store music is that Fry's in Palo Alto plays -- all mellow piano music.

 

[LKellerIII]

I've observed that most American businesses favor quantity over quality. Muzak was a perfect example. Thank God I no longer find it forced into my ears where I shop, eat, and work anymore.

I don't think you'd know Muzak if you heard it. In ye olden days, they produced instrumental versions of popular tunes. Today they use the original tracks. Muzak doesn't sound much different from Sirius/XM, DMX, or any other commercial music service. I believe they still use their "work flow" programming concept (different tempos and moods for different dayparts in order to stimulate work or create relaxation during stress hours).

Muzak and other commercial services were designed for specific kinds of audiences, but mass audiences nonetheless.

What I find funny about in-store music is that Fry's in Palo Alto plays -- all mellow piano music.

I was never a "Beautiful Music" fan, but I do remember a couple of times decades ago, smoking...uh...a substance that was not tobacco...and listening to one of the FM Stereo 'BM' stations (probably KFOG) with headphones on. A fun experience.

 

[recto101]

Music discovery is much like travel. You may or may not like what you find there, but if the trip's not worth taking, don't
complain about the scenery at home.

Americans are funny when it comes to new experiences: They don't want them. I once worked upstairs from the Powell Street cable car turntable. I saw tourists several times every day. Do they want the down-home dining experience? No, they want McDonald's. Do they want the locally-owned boutique hotel? No, they want a Marriott. Do they want to walk down the street and take in the sights? No, they want tour bus drivers to drag them around and show them pre-packaged sights.

In fact, many people say that they don't particularly like McDonald's but they go because it's a familiar experience.

Whereas the BBC and other national broadcasters in other countries would play a variety of music on their DJ shows -- a rock song, followed by a showtune, followed by a ballad, etc., in this country that kind of format just doesn't work. People want all rock or all country or all hip-hop.

DavidKaye I agree with you on this one.

 

[TheBigA]

Whereas the BBC and other national broadcasters in other countries would play a variety of music on their DJ shows -- a rock song, followed by a showtune, followed by a ballad, etc., in this country that kind of format just doesn't work. People want all rock or all country or all hip-hop.

Keep in mind that the BBC only offers a few services, so it's similar to American radio pre-FM. Back then, it was typical to hear Louis Armstrong and Johnny Cash on the same station playing The Beatles. After the FM explosion, you had more format specialization in American radio.

 

[recto101]

Music discovery is much like travel. You may or may not like what you find there, but if the trip's not worth taking, don't
complain about the scenery at home.

Americans are funny when it comes to new experiences: They don't want them. I once worked upstairs from the Powell Street cable car turntable. I saw tourists several times every day. Do they want the down-home dining experience? No, they want McDonald's. Do they want the locally-owned boutique hotel? No, they want a Marriott. Do they want to walk down the street and take in the sights? No, they want tour bus drivers to drag them around and show them pre-packaged sights.

In fact, many people say that they don't particularly like McDonald's but they go because it's a familiar experience.

Whereas the BBC and other national broadcasters in other countries would play a variety of music on their DJ shows -- a rock song, followed by a showtune, followed by a ballad, etc., in this country that kind of format just doesn't work. People want all rock or all country or all hip-hop.

DavidKaye I agree with you on this one.

I know people say they want to hear international news but in reality people do pay attention to International news if the US is at war with another country or when the US diplomats and US defense contractors are accused of Corruption abroad.

 

[rricci]

De-regualtion has suceeded in pushing off and out the truly entrertaing music, and the effet that that music might have on the populace.

And yet there's absolutely nothing in the deregulation laws that has anything to do with music. Nothing.

Stated or not, the effect of de-regulation is the homoginization of the varoious music genres, pushing out completely progressive rock.

So, instead of ever hearing "Sorrow", "Sheep", or "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" by Pink Floyd, we get:

"Comfortably Numb"

"Another Brick in the Wall Part II"

"Money"

------Only, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

It's what's not played, that is the problem with conglomerate controlled radio.

THIS is prgoress --- culturally, it is NOT.

I think they call it the Decline of Western Civilization.

I agree. There are TONS and TONS of music out there worth listening to, but never gets on the radio. I can give you 2 examples: My first 45 I bought was Black Water by The Doobie Brothers. I played that song a LOT. One day, I was bored and decided to see what the other side had. Turned out I like the B-side (Song To See You Through) better than the A side. I still occasionally play it on Rhapsody.

Another 45 I had Kung Fu Fighting by Carl Douglas had Gamblin' Man on the B-side. You can listen to it on YouTube. A few comments there have said that this side was better than the hit side. I have said this before here, but I believe that if radio is to survive, broadcasters need to experiment and play lesser known tracks mixed in with the more familiar. And maybe go outside the box musically. Thsi is the main reason I prefer to listen on the Net. I thought I knew a lot of 70s/80s music, but I can count on hearing a "new" (to me) song.

 

[TheBigA]

I believe that if radio is to survive, broadcasters need to experiment and play lesser known tracks mixed in with the more familiar.

Believe what you want to believe. But those of us in radio know that playing lesser known tracks is a turn off to the majority of listeners. I got to know the late Thom O'Hair before he died, and even he would tell you that you need to play the hits. When Thom was in San Francisco, that meant playing Tower of Power. But when he moved to New York, the audience there didn't know who they were. He learned quick he had to adapt.

If people want to search out lesser known tracks, they can buy the CD, or search the web, as you say. But radio's job is to entertain the masses, and you do that by playing the familiar favorites.

 

[rricci]

And how about taking requets?? If a classic hits station can't take requests for a classic hit, then why even function? The only time a "request" is ever played anymore, is if that song, the listener is asking for, is on the pre-programmed rotation for that day. A listener can request "Boys of Summer" and they'll hear it within the 1/2 hour anyways because stations play that song to death. But if someone requests "Music Box Dancer" from 1979, it'll never be played. That's the wrong approach by radio these days. Long lost oldies are only lost......because radio refuses to play them today.

Interesting you mention Music Box Dancer. Do you know the story of that song? I heard this from America's Top 40 back in the day. Frank Mills had sent a tape of Music Box Dancer to what he thought was a beautiful music radio station. Instead, it was a light rock station. Well, it got played and the rest is history

 

[rricci]

Hang On Sloopy
I’m Henry The VIII, I Am
Everybody Loves Somebody (Dean Martin)
Roses Are Red (My Love) and Blue Velvet (Bobby Vinton)
Hello Goodbye (Beatles)
To Sir With Love (Lulu)
(They Long To Be) Close To You (Carpenters)
Black & White (Three Dog Night)
Killing Me Softly With His Song
and...Seasons In The Sun

Myself, I'd rather hear these songs (and even Don't Worry, Be Happy) than hear My Girl for the 5000th time this year

 

[nocomradio]

Believe what you want to believe. But those of us in radio know that playing lesser known tracks is a turn off to the majority of listeners.

Just curious then (and I am not trying to be a smart behind here) why is it that so many in radio are lamenting the fact it is a dying medium and that listeners are leaving in droves? Is it something else? Has all the other media just drawn people there regardless of content? What is the reason?

 

[TheBigA]

Just curious then (and I am not trying to be a smart behind here) why is it that so many in radio are lamenting the fact it is a dying medium and that listeners are leaving in droves?

Those who see actual audience figures KNOW that the listeners AREN'T leaving in droves. They're not leaving at all. The numbers have been stable for a very long time. "Other media," as you call it, has no unique content other than commercially available music.

The people "lamenting" are either out of work, burned out, or bitter for one reason or another. Lots of that in radio. But radio isn't dying, and if you were in Dallas last week for the NAB convention, you'd come away with a very different view.

 

[nocomradio]

Those who see actual audience figures KNOW that the listeners AREN'T leaving in droves. They're not leaving at all. The numbers have been stable for a very long time. "Other media," as you call it, has no unique content other than commercially available music.

The people "lamenting" are either out of work, burned out, or bitter for one reason or another. Lots of that in radio. But radio isn't dying, and if you were in Dallas last week for the NAB convention, you'd come away with a very different view.

I wasn't at the NAB convention, so I don't know the climate in that sense. I think that generally any association is going to play up their industry, even when things aren't well. That is what most groups like that do. They don't like the truth to get out because it isn't good for their bottom line.

What I do see and hear is not from "burnt out" or "bitter" folks, but much of what I read, hear from people in the industry and see with my own eyes. Shortwave is dead. AM isn't far behind, and now FM is going to all talk and news and sports. Satellite radio is what it is.

When I asked you what is going on, I really meant that, thinking you might add some insight. Instead, you seem to think I and many others don't have any clue as to what is going on, and you immediately call us uniformed. I find that offensive. And as far as other media, I meant things like online music services like Pandora, Slacker, etc. Also keep in mind very few tune up the 'ol radio for news anymore unless its drive time and they are in the car. They get that on the smart phone or internet now. It just seems to me that maybe, just maybe, the content, or lack of began to drive a lot of folks away from radio and opened their eyes to a whole parallel universe of choices, and instant access to things they'd never get from the radio station. I am not saying this is exactly what happened, but it very well could be a factor.

 

[rricci]

I believe that if radio is to survive, broadcasters need to experiment and play lesser known tracks mixed in with the more familiar.

Believe what you want to believe. But those of us in radio know that playing lesser known tracks is a turn off to the majority of listeners. I got to know the late Thom O'Hair before he died, and even he would tell you that you need to play the hits.

There are a few people on this thread who would disagree with you. I find it hard to swallo that "a majority of listeners" are turned off by lesser known tracks. Like someone said here earlier, every song is someone's favorite. It might bring up a nice memory (first kiss, a kick a** party you attended, etc), or the words have a special meaning or whatever. I'm NOT saying JUST play lesser known tracks and that's it. No, what I'm saying is mix it up a little. Maybe 2-3 tracks an hour or so. Or would that still be too much?

[I accidenatlly erased part of your reply so I'm cut and pasting it here]

"If people want to search out lesser known tracks, they can buy the CD, or search the web, as you say. "

I don't want to buy a CD that I may just listen to just once and never put it back in my player. I rather buy a CD if there's at least 2 or 3 songs that I like. The sad thing is record labels and producers and all make music discovery hard, It's like going into a car dealship, seeing a vehicle that could appeal to you, then finding out you have to buy the car to test drive it. Say what?!?!?!?!

I think it would be a 3 way win (listener, music labels and the station itself) if those tracks were played.

 

[TheBigA]

There are a few people on this thread who would disagree with you.

That's fine. The great thing about the internet is people with no facts are free to present their opinions all day. But I have the facts, and I know they're wrong.

I find it hard to swallo that "a majority of listeners" are turned off by lesser known tracks.

I can show you minute-by-minute break-outs of audience figures, match them up against the songs played, and you can literally SEE the dials turn as unfamiliar music is played. It's amazing. Radio stations lose money when people turn the dial. They can't afford to allow that to happen. If you are willing to pay a subscription fee, then you can get lesser known tracks. But when advertisers pay the bill, it's their rules. I don't care if record labels make money. That's not my job. But I know what makes radio stations money, and it's not playing lesser known tracks. You're looking to get something for nothing, and blame radio because you can't. Sorry. That's not how life works. But don't attempt to convince me about what the masses want. I have far too much information.

 

[rricci]

It just seems to me that maybe, just maybe, the content, or lack of began to drive a lot of folks away from radio and opened their eyes to a whole parallel universe of choices, and instant access to things they'd never get from the radio station. I am not saying this is exactly what happened, but it very well could be a factor.

Nocomradio, This is EXACTLY the reason I dislike listening to radio (at least American raidio). Read my post above this one and you'll see how I feel. I subscribe to Rhapsody and absolutely LOVE it. I like all types of music and I like having the various genres mixed up. And if Rhapsody doesn't have a song I want, chances are YouTube will have it. I have recording software so if I do find the song on YouTube, I record it and turn it into an MP3. Anyway, in case you don't feel like reading my last post, I believe radio needs to move out of it;s safe zone. Watching paint dry is more exciting than today's radio.

This is turning out to be a VERY interesting thread. I may not agree with everyone, but I'm planning on keeping tabs with this thread