Do you still listen to FM when on an airplane?

[wxman76]

Even though the FAA prohibits it, how many of you still try to DX on FM when you are about 30,000 feet high?

Nowadays, I turn off the radio for takeoffs and landings, but when you are closer to cruising altitude I still can't resist going through the FM dial on my walkman even though it is not one of the "approved electronic devices". ;D

 

[MarcB]

Havent flown since 2005. First time I flew was in 2002. Listening to the radio I was trying to figure out why when flying from Hartford, CT to Pittsburgh, PA we had to fly over Buffalo, NY.

 

[nd2023]

Havent flown since 2005. First time I flew was in 2002. Listening to the radio I was trying to figure out why when flying from Hartford, CT to Pittsburgh, PA we had to fly over Buffalo, NY.

You could get Buffalo stations 30000 feet in the air 200 miles away from Buffalo.

 

[mimo]

I always have a walkman radio when I fly, and dxing on an airplane is an experience like no other. The sheer distance you get on FM from that altitude puts it almost on par with AM dx. I've also heard some great AM reception on an airplane as well, if you put the radio in the right spot near a window.

 

[chrish]

Everytime I fly out of Logan International, when we get up 1500' over Boston
the first DX stations to always come in loud and clear are WSTW @ 93.7 and WJBR 99.5 both from Wilmington, Delaware and they stay for hundreds of miles.

I always suspected they both must use very high gain FM antennas to have such strong signals at the horizon +++++

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

Even though the FAA prohibits it, how many of you still try to DX on FM when you are about 30,000 feet high?

Nowadays, I turn off the radio for takeoffs and landings, but when you are closer to cruising altitude I still can't resist going through the FM dial on my walkman even though it is not one of the "approved electronic devices". ;D

No, I don't disobey federal law.. and I don't want anything of mine confiscated.. wether there's any real danger or not.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Listening to FM in an airplane is a violation of federal law. You would be very well advised not to engage in such activity, as you could be mistaken for a terrorist.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

Listening to FM in an airplane is a violation of federal law. You would be very well advised not to engage in such activity, as you could be mistaken for a terrorist.

Some people might think he's kidding, but I'll tend to agree.

 

[BRNout]

I used to do it quite frequently back in the late 80s and 90s, but no longer do. One exception: we were flying over Cuba on a trip between Miami and Central America and I couldn't resist. Received Miami and Key West stations loud and clear, as well as a bunch of Radio Reloj and classical music repeaters - all in mono. It was interesting, but I only did it for about 10 minutes then put the radio away. Aside from that, no more dxing from a plane.

Any violation of federal law in an airplane is looked upon in a different light than it was before 9/11. Prior to then, the worst penalty for such shenanigans would probably be a scolding by the captain at the end of the flight. Nowadays, it's federal prison. No thanks.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I had the "pleasure" of engineering a broadcast where the morning show at WENS/Indianapolis jumped from a plane. We were 4 miles from the WENS 97.1 full Class B transmitter site & everything went great until we flew more or less straight above the transmitter and Columbus,OH (160 miles or so) wiped out WENS on the talent's Walkmans....oops. Fortunately, the actual jump location was far enough from "above" the transmitter that WENS won out.

I've heard stories from folks who owned private jets flying above Class B's and having stuff from several states away seize the frequency. Line of sight is a wonderful thing. I've often wondered what the first FM Dxer on the moon will hear? I've brought that topic up before on here & had some fascinating conversation result. There are TV Dxers overseas that have documented UHF TV carriers from the US by aiming high gain UHF antennas at the moon. If there's enough RF left to bounce off the moon & return to earth, imagine how much more RF would exist on the lunar surface. Of course, you'd probably get dozens of constantly changing signals at once...not unlike DXing on 1450AM at night. I know this thread concerns airplane DX...hope you'll forgive me for taking it to a 'higher plane'...

 

[mimo]

I guess they're more lax in Canada. I flew out to Calgary 2 years ago, the stewardess said I could listen to my radio as long as I didn't do it during take off and landing, it was fine.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

first FM Dxer on the moon will hear? I've brought that topic up before on here & had some fascinating conversation result. There are TV Dxers overseas that have documented UHF TV carriers from the US by aiming high gain UHF antennas at the moon. If there's enough RF left to bounce off the moon & return to earth, imagine how much more RF would exist on the lunar surface. Of course, you'd probably get dozens of constantly changing signals at once...not unlike DXing on 1450AM at night. I know this thread concerns airplane DX...hope you'll forgive me for taking it to a 'higher plane'...

There was an article in one of the electronics magazines years ago about moon colony DX. They did the math on FM signal strength, and came up with the figure 4 uV - a very do-able signal level with a good tuner. Of course each frequency would have multiple stations on it, and any conceivable directional antenna would not have a narrow enough beamwidth to separate them. The same article also talked about Martian colony DX, with the earth as essentially a point source. Of course, the signal strength would be degraded much further. As far as those people who hope ET picks up our broadcasts and is inspired to pay us a visit, the latest estimates are that even our strongest broadcast transmissions only go about one light year. Too bad the closest star is 4.

As far as moon bounce UHF - I hadn't heard that one. But in theory it is possible - if the geometries are right.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

first FM Dxer on the moon will hear? I've brought that topic up before on here & had some fascinating conversation result. There are TV Dxers overseas that have documented UHF TV carriers from the US by aiming high gain UHF antennas at the moon. If there's enough RF left to bounce off the moon & return to earth, imagine how much more RF would exist on the lunar surface. Of course, you'd probably get dozens of constantly changing signals at once...not unlike DXing on 1450AM at night. I know this thread concerns airplane DX...hope you'll forgive me for taking it to a 'higher plane'...

There was an article in one of the electronics magazines years ago about moon colony DX. They did the math on FM signal strength, and came up with the figure 4 uV - a very do-able signal level with a good tuner. Of course each frequency would have multiple stations on it, and any conceivable directional antenna would not have a narrow enough beamwidth to separate them. The same article also talked about Martian colony DX, with the earth as essentially a point source. Of course, the signal strength would be degraded much further. As far as those people who hope ET picks up our broadcasts and is inspired to pay us a visit, the latest estimates are that even our strongest broadcast transmissions only go about one light year. Too bad the closest star is 4.

As far as moon bounce UHF - I hadn't heard that one. But in theory it is possible - if the geometries are right.

Directional antenna...agreed. It would only be useful to gather maximum signal level. With the signals leaving all FM broadcast antennas & heading straight for the horizon, the position of the earth would dictate which stations would be "aimed" at the moon with the number of bays affecting how long each signal would be present on the moon, with the more bays produing fewer minutes of RF presence. That's the first time I've heard the 4uv signal...as you say, not a problem. The real problem will be getting NASA to take an APS-13 yagi along for the next moon landing.

 

[wxman76]

Havent flown since 2005. First time I flew was in 2002. Listening to the radio I was trying to figure out why when flying from Hartford, CT to Pittsburgh, PA we had to fly over Buffalo, NY.

You were probably on the north side of the airplane. Had you been seating near the south facing windows, you probably would have picked up NYC, Philly, Baltimore and DC instead.

 

[nd2023]

Is it really a violation of federal law or a violation of the airline law? The little local oscillator signal that every FM receiver emits would go 10 feet before being too weak to hear. The signals from the ATC tower would be around 30 dBu at worst, and the antenna is in the cockpit or outside the plane, so the local oscillator wouldn't do any damage. Cell phones have several watts of power and can cause more interference, and I'm sure someone forgets to turn off their cell phone on any given flight, and we haven't heard any reports of any problems because of that.

 

[kenrayc]

When I flew from San Francisco to Seattle in 2005,I came on board with a Radio-TV sound walkman ,they said don't turn in on until 10 minutes after lift off and before landing ,there was a warning not to use any devices until they announce that it's OK.Anyway the dial was full with stations changing every 10 minutes on one frequency. picking up Medford and Seattle at the same time while passing over Portland OR.

 

[BRNout]

I've heard stories from folks who owned private jets flying above Class B's and having stuff from several states away seize the frequency. Line of sight is a wonderful thing. I've often wondered what the first FM Dxer on the moon will hear? I've brought that topic up before on here & had some fascinating conversation result. There are TV Dxers overseas that have documented UHF TV carriers from the US by aiming high gain UHF antennas at the moon. If there's enough RF left to bounce off the moon & return to earth, imagine how much more RF would exist on the lunar surface. Of course, you'd probably get dozens of constantly changing signals at once...not unlike DXing on 1450AM at night. I know this thread concerns airplane DX...hope you'll forgive me for taking it to a 'higher plane'...

I can personally attest to this. We were flying northeast between Baltimore and Manchester, right over Brooklyn, and 101.1 was dominated by a very strong WBEB (B101) Philadelphia. I didn't pick up New York's WCBS-FM until we were over Bridgeport, CT.

About dxing from space, I too am nerdy enough to have given it some thought and I think that the calculations I've seen here are exactly right. You'd get multiple changing signals on the moon that only last a minute or so (at best) as the Earth rotates. The UHF moon bounce thing works because you're stationary relative to the source. The spot on the moon where the bounce occurs is what moves. But, if you are on the moon, you're hearing the signals change very quickly.

As for the concept of SETI, I have always wondered about the strength of a broadcast signal. It's one thing to send a narrow beam to a single spot. But, an omnidirectional signal would fade into oblivion very quickly (by the standards of space). The idea of all Earth-based signals being unreceiveable by 1 light year is probably about right. I would be surprised if they even made it out of the solar system. And, from a single point in space within range, you would hear (or see with TV) a mish-mosh of multiple signals on each frequency that change rapidly as the Earth rotates AND moves in its orbit of the Sun. My guess is it would be like dxing from a plane going 4,000 miles per hour at 100,000 feet!

Therefore, basing the relative validity of intelligent life elsewhere on a concept such as SETI is a fool's errand. Aliens would have to send a strong narrow beam right at our tiny spot in space for us to pick it up that way. The odds of it happening are one in a billion. We would never pick up an alien civilization's standard broadcast signals - even if they were like ours - unless they were close by (like on Mars). That none of the SETI scientists ever address this flaw amazes me. ???

 

[fortaz107]

Yes, it gives you a real feel for the area you are flying over.

 

[trusty]

As far as moon bounce UHF - I hadn't heard that one. But in theory it is possible - if the geometries are right.

Of course, you get more signal bounce when the moon is full.

 

[trusty]

As far as moon bounce UHF - I hadn't heard that one. But in theory it is possible - if the geometries are right.

Of course, you get more signal bounce when the moon is full.

Now,don't tell me you paused and thought about THAT one!