does a station burn a bridge when it refuses to incorporate its calls?

[Robert Bass]

Since calls are the least memorable part of a station identity, many of us choose to never use them except for legal IDs. And that is why in mmost parts of the world, stations don't use calles on the air as an identifier.

I completely and utterly disagree with that statement. If that were true, no one would know or remember simple calls like KLUV, KRLD, WBAP, KLIF, KSCS, KPLX, WRR, and even KERA and KEOM.

I know for a fact KLUV has jingles containing their calls and frequency.

R

 

[little1]

But ask your average listener what they listen to and they'll say 99.5 the Wolf. Or that they listen to country music.

Probably the last answer you're going to get is KPLX-FM.

And Robert, I've heard that Dan McDowell (who's a big listener of your station) refer to you guys as 'that mesquite high school station". If your calls are that memorable, why is a guy, who's actually in the buisness, unable to remember what they are?

 

[Robert Bass]

And Robert, I've heard that Dan McDowell (who's a big listener of your station) refer to you guys as 'that mesquite high school station". If your calls are that memorable, why is a guy, who's actually in the buisness, unable to remember what they are?

Probably an exception to the norm. The people who contact KEOM directly, know the calls.

R

 

[little1]

In other words, you can't give me an example that isn't like 20 years old, right? When did KPLX go from MOR to country, the late 70's?

OK, spin this until you're undisputably right, O omniscient one. I don't recall you specifying a timetable in your post (you might recheck it to see, just in case.) So KBFB's been 20 years ago? KYNG? Go to bed, dude (or ma'am.) I'll duke this out with you another time.

January 7, 1980, to be exact, on the KPLX change. "The Wolf" moniker didn't come around until July 24, 1998.

Yeah, but since the whole pointof this thread was using heritage calls, I highly doubt KPLX were heritage calls in 1980. And by 1998 they'd completely abanded the KPLX name except for a brief legal ID. No more flexing your plex, etc...

And on KYNG, they kept the calls, but did they USE them? I don't remember how 105.3 was imaged before their switch to KLLI, but I sure don't remember a whole lot of use of those calls (which were never heritage to begin with)...

 

[little1]

And Robert, I've heard that Dan McDowell (who's a big listener of your station) refer to you guys as 'that mesquite high school station". If your calls are that memorable, why is a guy, who's actually in the buisness, unable to remember what they are?

Probably an exception to the norm. The people who contact KEOM directly, know the calls.

R

LOL-
Yeah, so you're telling me that the people who have either googled you, looked you up in the phone book, or found something from their school that lists all the district phone numbers already KNOW your call letters?

That's SHOCKING to me... :

 

[Robert Bass]

And Robert, I've heard that Dan McDowell (who's a big listener of your station) refer to you guys as 'that mesquite high school station". If your calls are that memorable, why is a guy, who's actually in the buisness, unable to remember what they are?

Probably an exception to the norm. The people who contact KEOM directly, know the calls.

R

LOL-
Yeah, so you're telling me that the people who have either googled you, looked you up in the phone book, or found something from their school that lists all the district phone numbers already KNOW your call letters?

That's SHOCKING to me... :

Probably because you are out of touch with reality. I suggest you call the station and schedule an appointment to view the public inspection file. You'll see all the e-mails and letters KEOM gets from listeners, who use the calls. And that excludes the announcement request submissions. The station's number is 972-882-7560. The website to schedule an appointment through e-mail, is www.keom.fm.

R

 

[DAYRADIO]

Don't people mention whatever the station wants them to mention (i.e. imaging, website, etc), as in:

KEOM = KEOM.FM
WBAP= WBAP.COM
KRLD = KRLD.COM
KTRH = KTRH.COM
KLIF = KLIF.COM
WOAI = WOAI.COM


KVIL = http://1037litefm.com
KPLX= http://www.995thewolf.com
KLLI= http://www.live1053.com

So, to answer the original question in the thread: No.

 

[MikeShannon914]

Yeah, but since the whole pointof this thread was using heritage calls, I highly doubt KPLX were heritage calls in 1980. And by 1998 they'd completely abanded the KPLX name except for a brief legal ID. No more flexing your plex, etc...And on KYNG, they kept the calls, but did they USE them? I don't remember how 105.3 was imaged before their switch to KLLI, but I sure don't remember a whole lot of use of those calls (which were never heritage to begin with)...

OK, using YOUR original post, you asked, "Can someone give a before and after example of rehabbing of call letters? Where the call letters have really been central to a station's positioning both before and after a change?"

Did I overlook the word HERITAGE in there somewhere?

Nah, I'll give you KYNG as well...the original intent was to capitalize on the word "king" to tie in with Howard, "The King of All Media." I don't recall that ever coming to fruition.

"K-Plex" was the name used on the air for both the MOR and country versions of the station. I believe the original thought was based on "multiPLEX stereo" Only later was it used for flexing one's 'plex.'

 

[pqgeorge]

Yeah, but since the whole pointof this thread was using heritage calls, I highly doubt KPLX were heritage calls in 1980. And by 1998 they'd completely abanded the KPLX name except for a brief legal ID. No more flexing your plex, etc...And on KYNG, they kept the calls, but did they USE them? I don't remember how 105.3 was imaged before their switch to KLLI, but I sure don't remember a whole lot of use of those calls (which were never heritage to begin with)...

OK, using YOUR original post, you asked, "Can someone give a before and after example of rehabbing of call letters? Where the call letters have really been central to a station's positioning both before and after a change?"

Did I overlook the word HERITAGE in there somewhere?

Nah, I'll give you KYNG as well...the original intent was to capitalize on the word "king" to tie in with Howard, "The King of All Media." I don't recall that ever coming to fruition.

"K-Plex" was the name used on the air for both the MOR and country versions of the station. I believe the original thought was based on "multiPLEX stereo" Only later was it used for flexing one's 'plex.'

Isn't the Dallas/Fort Worth area better known as "The metro-PLeX"? I sure that probably had a small inspiration for the KPLX call-letters. Just a thought.

 

[MikeShannon914]

And Robert, I've heard that Dan McDowell (who's a big listener of your station) refer to you guys as 'that mesquite high school station". If your calls are that memorable, why is a guy, who's actually in the buisness, unable to remember what they are?

I hate to say this, but I've heard the same exact quote from several people. Personally, I think they're all closet listeners who don't want to admit they know the calls or would even listen 'to some high school station'! But when I ask ANYONE if they've heard of KEOM or 'that high school station,' I can't think of one person who said they'd never heard of it. Everyone seems to know about it or listens to it regularly. I think the invention of the seek/scan button helped KEOM a lot (and overcame the old stigma of being stuck at one end of the dial or the other...KNOK 107.5 used to have that perception until analog tuners became a thing of the past.)

 

[Robert Bass]

Well they should stop saying "Mesquite High School Station", and replace it with "Mesquite Schools Station".

R

 

[MikeShannon914]

Isn't the Dallas/Fort Worth area better known as "The metro-PLeX"? I sure that probably had a small inspiration for the KPLX call-letters. Just a thought.

Hmmm...

Perhaps I should have read my own website before jumping on that one. Not sure where I came up with the idea of 'multiplex' (I believe their 1970s positioners once used to say something about "in multiplex stereo,") but apparently I had found the true meaning right out of Susquehanna's published history, which does indeed say "Metroplex." Sorry, my error! :-[

 

[Robert Bass]

Here ya go, Little1,

The sender's e-mail address has been omitted, for obvious reasons.

Sent on 11/24/07

Message: I used to love listening to your station when I lived in Dallas 10 years ago. Is there any way to listen to KEOM on the internet?

That's just one of MANY examples.

R

 

[davideduardo]

Don't people mention whatever the station wants them to mention (i.e. imaging, website, etc), as in:

KEOM = KEOM.FM
WBAP= WBAP.COM
KRLD = KRLD.COM
KTRH = KTRH.COM
KLIF = KLIF.COM
WOAI = WOAI.COM


KVIL = http://1037litefm.com
KPLX= http://www.995thewolf.com
KLLI= http://www.live1053.com

So, to answer the original question in the thread: No.

Here are a couple of examples.

KVIL by dial postion or dial plus something else 89% of Quarter Hour diary mentions. Frequency only, 62%. Calls only 10%. Frequency and Lite: 7%. Calls and Frequency 14%. With dot-com, zero mentions.

WBAP Frequency only 18%, Calls only 38%, call and frequency 36%. No dot-com mentions.

Heritage stations, particularly AM's, with older listeners, tend to have more call letter mentions.

KHKS, a young station has 61% frequency only, 25% frequency and "KISS" or Kiss-FM and 5% Kiss only.

Remember, is someone writes in KXXX.com the credit does not go to KXX radio, unless the web stream is 100% duplicating the air signal, something generally not true due to AFTRA / Advertiser issues.

 

[davideduardo]

Since calls are the least memorable part of a station identity, many of us choose to never use them except for legal IDs. And that is why in mmost parts of the world, stations don't use calles on the air as an identifier.

I completely and utterly disagree with that statement. If that were true, no one would know or remember simple calls like KLUV, KRLD, WBAP, KLIF, KSCS, KPLX, WRR, and even KERA and KEOM.

I know for a fact KLUV has jingles containing their calls and frequency.

R

Even KLUV, that uses calls a lot, gets 35% of quarter hours from frequency, 31% from frequency and calls, and 28% from calls only.

Most listeners enter in what the digital readout on the dial says.

 

[Robert Bass]

Since calls are the least memorable part of a station identity, many of us choose to never use them except for legal IDs. And that is why in mmost parts of the world, stations don't use calles on the air as an identifier.

I completely and utterly disagree with that statement. If that were true, no one would know or remember simple calls like KLUV, KRLD, WBAP, KLIF, KSCS, KPLX, WRR, and even KERA and KEOM.

I know for a fact KLUV has jingles containing their calls and frequency.

R

Even KLUV, that uses calls a lot, gets 35% of quarter hours from frequency, 31% from frequency and calls, and 28% from calls only.

Most listeners enter in what the digital readout on the dial says.

Those are fairly decent percentages, across the board. If you had said KLUV only gets 3 to 5 percent from calls only, you'd probably be on to something.

R

 

[davideduardo]

Those are fairly decent percentages, across the board. If you had said KLUV only gets 3 to 5 percent from calls only, you'd probably be on to something.

Stations that are old-leaning (like KLUV and WBAP) have listeners more used to calls. In demos under 55, most mentions across the board are by dial position.

Research done several decades ago showed the "average listener" can remember twice as many station names as station calls; that was before the digital dial "IDed" stations visually.

Most of the world does not use calls. In one country I worked in would not allow calls to be used in place of a station name.

 

[Robert Bass]

Most of the world does not use calls. In one country I worked in would not allow calls to be used in place of a station name.

You're talking about "most of the world", not the USA specifically. And by the way, I am way under the 55 Demo, and I can remember all the calls I mentioned, a few posts back, in about ten seconds flat.

Those surveys you speak of, come off as saying listeners are stupid, from my viewpoint.

R

 

[davideduardo]

Most of the world does not use calls. In one country I worked in would not allow calls to be used in place of a station name.

You're talking about "most of the world", not the USA specifically. And by the way, I am way under the 55 Demo, and I can remember all the calls I mentioned, a few posts back, in about ten seconds flat.

Those surveys you speak of, come off as saying listeners are stupid, from my viewpoint.

If I asked for people's auto licence tag number, a large number would not know? But they know the brand of the car and probably the mode. A set of letters is harder to remember than a name, which is why most "newer" stations use names, not just the calls.

 

[salemjedi54]

I've always thought that it takes so much time and effort to build awareness that call sign continuity was an asset, but I've heard programmers say the heritage calls are "Tainted", and need to be dumped.

So, my sense of it is, keep the calls, use the calls, rehab the calls, don't p-ss away decades of awareness, rather, evolve the station so as to hang onto the dim recognition of the casual listeners. They don't know Jack. (or Bob, Wolf, Buzzard, River, Star, or any other b.s. identifier the consultant ripped off from some other market).

So should 1310 have kept the KAAM calls when flipping to sports?
And should Jack really have kept the KJMZ calls? Even though the whole point of calling themselves Jack is so that Jack here is similar to Jack there?

Seriously, I think it's a judgement call that needs to be made on a case by case basis on whether the 'call sign continuity' is worth whatever 'taint' the heritage calls might have. And that's where KPLX is probably a good example to discuss. As I mentioned earlier, they've been succesful from a ratings and reputation standpoint, and at one point, they were one of the top billers in the market, so they've been succesful, all without relying on the heritage calls...

Can someone give a before and after example of rehabbing of call letters? Where the call letters have really been central to a station's positioning both before and after a change?

I can think of some examples (like The Power station Z92.5 KZPS, going to 92.5 the Classic rock station) where the calls have fallen into disuse, but few if any where the call letters have been front and center both before and after...

The KJMZ calls went away when Jamz flipped to V100...They were KJMZ for like a week after the flip. then they became KRBV 100.3