It seems like KZPT is more parallel to KMXV than KCKC, as they even reference them as the "other guys" in advertising. KC102 does drie you crazy though; there's only so many times you can hear annoying recurrents being played over and over like "Ain't it Fun" without losing one's mind.
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Does anyone besides me think AC today is a joke?
- Thread starter Jasonthegreat
- Start date
It seems like KZPT is more parallel to KMXV than KCKC, as they even reference them as the "other guys" in advertising. KC102 does drie you crazy though; there's only so many times you can hear annoying recurrents being played over and over like "Ain't it Fun" without losing one's mind.
If your name was "Tall_Girl", you might not think that way.
I don't know...it has a 2.2 share and is in 18th place in the Kansas City market. I don't think much of anybody is listening to them....
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
What you don't know, actually, is how the station does among female listeners in 18-34 and 25-49. 6+ ratings are meaningless for determining how well a station is actually doing in its target demographic(s), which is why Nielsen releases them without charge.
If the station does well enough in women to rank in the top four or five with them, they will get sufficient agency business.
"Much of anybody" is a umbrella term, whereas radio is concerned with specific groups underneath the umbrella.
In this station's case...I doubt it. Almost without exception in my market, a 2.0 rating or below in the overall PPMs usually warrant a format change, if not before. A station known as "Gen X radio" on 99.7 in this market had similar ratings flipped in 2011, and now it is one of the highest (if not THE highest in the market) as "The Point."
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
I still maintain that you are drawing conclusions without demographic breakouts of the ratings.
No broadcast manager is going to make a decision like a format change based on the 6+ numbers. Nobody. That is not to say that the example you gave was invalid, just that you have no way of proving or disproving that the station was also foundering in its target demo.
Making generalizations based on 6+ numbers will quickly get you added to everyone's "non-credible" list of posters, because sooner or later you'll be wrong, simply because the numbers didn't correlate, the managers used the target demo numbers, and your statements were made on the more general numbers.
Perhaps someone with access to the full Kansas City book can check in and give us something more relevant to base predictions on.
No broadcast manager is going to make a decision like a format change based on the 6+ numbers. Nobody. That is not to say that the example you gave was invalid, just that you have no way of proving or disproving that the station was also foundering in its target demo.
Making generalizations based on 6+ numbers will quickly get you added to everyone's "non-credible" list of posters, because sooner or later you'll be wrong, simply because the numbers didn't correlate, the managers used the target demo numbers, and your statements were made on the more general numbers.
Perhaps someone with access to the full Kansas City book can check in and give us something more relevant to base predictions on.
The 6+ numbers do give an overall "picture" of how well the stations are doing regarding how many people listen. Therefore, prediction of demise might be uncredible on my part, I think it shows how well it resonates with people, overall.
Example that disproves this approach:
WFAN... for about two decades the #1 billing station in the US. But it seldom got above 15th in the 12+ ratings... and when it did, it was 13th or 14th.
Anyone looking at the 12+ would have said that such an expensive format with such low ratings could not possibly do well. But it was solid in its core demo. Even today, with more direct competition, the station is in the top couple of billers in NYC and still does not have the kind of 12+ ratings that would seem, from afar, to justify it.
Nielsen gives the 12+ data away for free. It is worth every cent we pay for it.
Hmmm...there are stations that have large enough niche audiences to keep going. What I have observed by following the ratings for several years in the Kansas City market is that stations that do poorly are often yanked if they get at or below 2.0 market share in a single month. That's not always true, especially for Cumulus stations where the station is or almost is completely automated. Several news articles for the demise of stations like Alice 102, Gen X Radio, 99 Kiss FM, and others have referenced their PPM numbers and it seems many of them fell around 2.0, and were commercial stations. However, as KM said, the station owners probably did not use those numbers, but instead looked where they fell in their target demos.
I'm not sure how to interpret this. It was just three songs (I was at the dentist, but I won't go into detail; just know that since I was at the dentist the music didn't last long). ACs are now playing more newer music, but between 10:45 and 11, "Get Down Tonight" by K.C and the Sunshine Band (Early 70s? Really?), "Wanted Dead or Alive" by Bon Jovi (still 80s) and "Ironic" by Alanis Morissette (that's from the 90s). Realy? Nothing from this century?
What I know about this station is that it used to play mostly older songs. The other AC was "Lite" but now is a station that plays "everything". Which means there is a classic hits station in the market, sort of. So it's not like the AC has to play older songs. There is also a Hot AC, but people have argued that station is actually an AC because it doesn't play enough newer songs. Still, the last billboard I saw said "90s, 2K and Now".
Another experience I had yesterday. "I'd Really Love to See You Tonight" by England Dan and John Ford Coley in a drug store. I did not ask where they got their music, but that's the good kind of AC. However, the next song was "Music" by Madonna. How can those two songs go together? I don't mean just on the same station. I mean one following the other. Unless this was one of those "we play everything" stations, even if it was just a background music service.
What I know about this station is that it used to play mostly older songs. The other AC was "Lite" but now is a station that plays "everything". Which means there is a classic hits station in the market, sort of. So it's not like the AC has to play older songs. There is also a Hot AC, but people have argued that station is actually an AC because it doesn't play enough newer songs. Still, the last billboard I saw said "90s, 2K and Now".
Another experience I had yesterday. "I'd Really Love to See You Tonight" by England Dan and John Ford Coley in a drug store. I did not ask where they got their music, but that's the good kind of AC. However, the next song was "Music" by Madonna. How can those two songs go together? I don't mean just on the same station. I mean one following the other. Unless this was one of those "we play everything" stations, even if it was just a background music service.
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
The reason is that "good kind of AC" is a purely subjective term and is indicative only of the opinion held by the speaker, whereas music services, radio formats, etc., define "good" as "tests well with the target demo".
Both songs obviously tested well. Therefore, they play.
Although I would hope some thought gets put into song scheduling to prevent potential train-wreck segues. I think that's what he's talking about.
Certainly a station can use imaging and other devices to create better flow between songs.
I expect this will become an even bigger problem as we move along, since music today is a bit more diverse than it used to be. These kinds of radio formats will need to spend more time thinking about not only what they play, but how they play it.
This is a background music service, more than likely. I could investigate further. But the minute Madonna started, I wasn't staying around.
You are correct that I shouldn't have referred to the "good kind of AC". I think I meant the AC that whoever started this thread remembers and wishes was still there.
As has been posted before ... When I'm in a business, I don't even notice what's being played on their "background" music system.
An update on that AC I heard at the dentist.
I was at a mall yesterday (it was raining and I needed a place to walk) and couldn't really hear it all that well.
During the hour I was there, except when I went to eat at a place that played "Puppy Love", I heard a lot of tunes from the 80s and even one from the 70s. "Rosanna", "Beat It", "When Doves Cry" and "Footloose". And some songs that sounded newer but nothing as extreme as Lady Gaga, and not even any Katy Perry. Maybe they played one of them while I was missing. K-104.7 in Charlotte borders on Hot AC at night but this was no Hot AC. People have been arguing over whether this station is hot or not, but clearly it's not.
I was at a mall yesterday (it was raining and I needed a place to walk) and couldn't really hear it all that well.
During the hour I was there, except when I went to eat at a place that played "Puppy Love", I heard a lot of tunes from the 80s and even one from the 70s. "Rosanna", "Beat It", "When Doves Cry" and "Footloose". And some songs that sounded newer but nothing as extreme as Lady Gaga, and not even any Katy Perry. Maybe they played one of them while I was missing. K-104.7 in Charlotte borders on Hot AC at night but this was no Hot AC. People have been arguing over whether this station is hot or not, but clearly it's not.
I remember this started back in the late '00s and really gained steam in the early '10s. There was a push to make the format more "upbeat." I remember Lite 102.9 in Charlotte, which was an amazing station, started advertising its "new bright sound" which of course was a move almost to Hot AC.
AC used to be "at work radio" and focused primarily on softer songs from the late 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s. Now, its hard to distinguish it from Hot AC. There is nothing from the 70s anymore, very little from the 80s and 90s. It's mostly CHR hits from the '00s and '10s. The only thing that distinguishes it from Hot AC is that AC generally stays away from hip-hop.
vchimpanzee's station above is the old AC formula that most AC stations have moved on from.
AC used to be "at work radio" and focused primarily on softer songs from the late 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s. Now, its hard to distinguish it from Hot AC. There is nothing from the 70s anymore, very little from the 80s and 90s. It's mostly CHR hits from the '00s and '10s. The only thing that distinguishes it from Hot AC is that AC generally stays away from hip-hop.
vchimpanzee's station above is the old AC formula that most AC stations have moved on from.
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Depends....there's a thread about how WLTW in NYC is very 80s heavy, and several similar threads in other cities. But they definitely stepped up the tempo a bit.
Not really, but at least "at work" it's not bordering on Hot AC.
I sampled the station once over the weekend. "Jack and Diane" was followed by "Genie in a Bottle". While the second song is old, it certainly sounds like the style that AC has become. Still, the even older songs are still there at night.
A lot of stores just use employee's iPods or Pandora or something without any kind of actual station playing. Maybe it's just music the Gen X audience would like....
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