Does anyone have a 3 letter call that they are considering blowing up?

[ChiefEngineer]

Does anyone have a 3 letter call that they are considering blowing up? I want to park it on an AM or FM in Indiana.

Please PM me

 

[bossbill]

Don't think you can.

 

[davideduardo]

Does anyone have a 3 letter call that they are considering blowing up? I want to park it on an AM or FM in Indiana.

Please PM me

A 3-letter call, if given up, is retired. It can not be transferred except to another station under the same ownership. If the station that gives up a 3-letter call later wants to recover it, the FCC will generally grant the request if the station is under the same ownership as when the call was given up (one exception to this was made based on a rather absurd pleading, but it was the exception).

In other words, unless you owned a station with a 3-letter call and gave it up, you can't get such a call for your station. Of course, you could buy a station with a 3-letter call, then move the call to your other station... in the W zone, I'd guess the smallest would be WDZ in Decatur or WHA in Madison. If you have a few hundred k, then perhaps WDZ could be had. I doubt WHA would sell for any price.

The more common solution is to do WW and the two desired letters... And, save for the legal ID, just use the 3. It's legal, and has been done quite a few times. Of course, all this assumes you have a licensed station. Pirates can use whatever calls they want.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

According to the call sign desk 3 letter calls can be used on another station if allowed by the AM primary. I am not suggesting to use the calls after they are changed, but, before.

Emmis gave up WHN years ago. If the station had allowed an FM to use the calls they would still be around.

 

[cd637299]

Weren't the calls KUT designated by Presidential order?

If so, that's *one* way to get a set!

cd

 

[davideduardo]

According to the call sign desk 3 letter calls can be used on another station if allowed by the AM primary. I am not suggesting to use the calls after they are changed, but, before.

Emmis gave up WHN years ago. If the station had allowed an FM to use the calls they would still be around.

But today, the WHN calls are permanently retired as the station has been sold several times since Emmis held them.

As to the primary use station allowing use by another service, there has to be common ownership. If you have WDZ (AM) and add an FM, by purchase or CP, you can have WDZ-FM. Or WDZ-TV. But you can't, as far as I know, get WDZ to allow you, a separate licensee in another city, to use WDZ FM as there is now commonality of ownership.

It would be interesting to see if today's commission allowed an in-use call to be allowed in a different service in a different location under different ownership. A contingent payment of a fee to the current user might be the solution, but the fee could be considerable. When WMIA-FM in Miami got consent from WMIA in Arecibo, PR, to use the calls, it took $50 k to get the permission. WMIA realized that "MIA" is a really well known abbreviation for Miami, as well as the airport designation, and that it means "My" in Spanish... so they had a good hand. Similarly, a 3-letter call holder would see an advantage. And some, let's say WSB or WJR or WLS are not going to even minimally dilute their brand or risk confusion by buyers for any price...

 

[davideduardo]

Weren't the calls KUT designated by Presidential order?

Of course, KUT went on the air in November of 1958, so the rules... and the exceptions... would be different.

The return of KHJ to 930 AM is the only recent exception. KHJ changed to KRTH (AM) prior to the sale to Beasley. Beasley sold again to Liberman. Liberman, wanting the credibility of the calls for sales purposes, got "KKHJ" in an effort to show that the "new" Spanish language station was indeed the old KHJ facility. At some point, they wanted to get KHJ, so they presented the FCC with the idea that KKHJ, in Spanish, came out "KaKa Achay Jota" with "caca" meaning "poop." The FCC bought the argument and allowed return of the 3-letter calls. Of course, nobody mentioned that KKHJ never, ever used the call letters in Spanish, in that it was called "Radio Alegría" with an English-only legal ID done as fast as possible once an hour.

If so, that's *one* way to get a set!

I'm not going there... :

 

[landtuna]

Got to be careful with those cross-culture interpretations. ;D

Now I gotta ask a question about three letter calls.

Why would the FCC discourage or disallow TLC's? Or is it the FCC at all? Are the 'legend' stations with TLC's discouraging the issue of new ones thinking it would dilute their 'legendary' status?

Just wondering.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

The FCC regularly allows a non owned station in a different community to use another station's call letters. WMGC is one. There are many others.

3 letter calls are discouraged. You can't apply unless a set already exists. If WXX would allow for money or other, their calls to be used, by letter, any station can use them. I am seeking someone with a 3 by to allow use of their calls far from their location.

 

[w9wi]

(regarding buying an existing 3-letter station & transferring its call to yours, firstly, agreed, WHA is almost certainly not for sale. WPR has no real other prospect for an Ideas Network station in Madison, and WHA serves as the primary for an FM translator. Besides, they *are* history-aware.)

(I might guess WEW might be buyable at a not-too-outrageous price.)

Why would the FCC discourage or disallow TLC's? Or is it the FCC at all? Are the 'legend' stations with TLC's discouraging the issue of new ones thinking it would dilute their 'legendary' status?

My guess is they don't want to get caught in the middle of a dispute between applicants.

There are fewer 3-letter calls than you may think. A very quick look shows a WAH (St. Thomas, Virgin Islands); WBK (Kenova, West Virginia); WBX (Venice, Louisiana); and WBY. (Arabi, Louisiana) That's just checking 3-letter calls that begin with WA and WB. There was even a record of an (expired) three letter call here in Nashville -- besides WSM.

You won't find any of those calls in the Media Bureau CDBS. None of them are broadcast stations; they're all marine "coastal" stations.

There are 676 3-letter calls available on either side of the Mississippi. Remove about 100 on each side for maritime stations and you've got about 575 left. With roughly 5,000 broadcast stations licensed on each side, I think you'd see a bit of a free-for-all.

And I'm sure it would have been a lot worse (despite far fewer stations) back in the 1930s when they adopted the policy - and when 3-letter calls were a lot more prestigious.

 

[danikayser84]

On a side note, there are 35152 possible 4-letter calls, and we will probably never exhaust them all, but remember that some of them are allocated to maritime stations or the federal govt

We will probably never need to go 5-letter calls (which I believe are still allocated to something else... weather radio?)

 

[landtuna]

Seems the gubmint should be using the Nxxx military calls and leave the W and K calls to the commercial world.

I still see no reason why they don't assign new, unused three-letter-calls.

 

[landtuna]

Seems the gubmint should be using the Nxxx military calls and leave the W and K calls to the commercial world.

I still see no reason why they don't assign new, unused three-letter-calls. And even less reason to divide the W and K calls by the Mississippi River. That always seemed like an especially dumb idea.

 

[davideduardo]

The FCC regularly allows a non owned station in a different community to use another station's call letters. WMGC is one. There are many others.

That is only permitted with the consent of the station with current use. It's up to them to give permission. They will want money, probably lots of it.

In 1989, I wanted to get a certain call set for an AM in Tallahassee that was related to the Seminoles. Our first choice was on a Mississippi FM, and we proposed paying them a reasonable amount (we were thinking $10 to $15 thousand) and the station asked for over $100 k.

3 letter calls are discouraged. You can't apply unless a set already exists. If WXX would allow for money or other, their calls to be used, by letter, any station can use them. I am seeking someone with a 3 by to allow use of their calls far from their location.

That's not allowed unless there is common ownership.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

Common ownership is not required for owner A and owner B to share calls. I noted WMGC. WIRE is another. The AM WIRE became WIRE FM. The calls were later mistakenly assigned to a LPTV then somehow appeared on a LPFM. Our WIRE did not give permission. There are multiple owners.

At one time the LP calls had their own designation. If WIRE were in use it could not be assigned to any other service. The first I noticed was when I searched for WIRE. Again, I found WIRE LPTV and WIRE LP. '

Common ownership has not been required for shared call letters for at least 12 years. The WGLD call letters were in use in Indianapolis and another city many years ago.

WNAP is an example. WMGC. WGLD. WIRE.

Please cite the reference for required shared ownership to have the same call letters in another service. I have found multiple instances I have cited. One person keeps noting common ownership is required and this is not accurate based on practice and a Rule search. Not to say it was not once. I would like to know why if it is not alowed it is being allowed.

WMLK would be great calls forf a radiostation but they are on a marine vessel. Many other great calls are on boats.

 

[w9wi]

Seems the gubmint should be using the Nxxx military calls and leave the W and K calls to the commercial world.

The three-letter maritime calls I cited are assigned to private maritime interests. (but that brings up a good point, the government uses some 3-letter calls as well, the most notable being WWV)

And even less reason to divide the W and K calls by the Mississippi River.

The FCC proposed dropping that division a few (ten?) years ago. The industry shot it down.

Actually, that split also has its origin in maritime radio. Three-letter calls were assigned to shore stations, and four-letter calls to ships, to make it easier for operators to tell which was which. To make it even easier to tell, shore stations on the East and Gulf Coasts were assigned calls starting with W; ships calling at East and Gulf Coast ports were assigned K calls. So if it started with K and had four letters, it was a ship -- if it started with W and had three letters, it was a land station.

They reversed it on the West Coast, assigning shore stations 3-letter K calls and ships calling at West Coast ports 4-letter W calls.

At the time, for the most part the only folks interested in radio were maritime interests & hams. There was no reason to have a maritime station in an inland location like, say, Kansas, so there was no reason to set an inland dividing line. Hams didn't get a prefix letter -- their calls all started with the number of the radio inspection district (like "9CCO") so there was no need for a divide there either.

Then, in the early 1920s broadcasting got going. And suddenly, no longer were all commercial radio stations on the coast; there was (huge) demand for stations at inland locations.

The initial dividing line was the eastern borders of New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana. (I suppose to avoid moving Texas and Louisiana maritime stations to the other side of the line) I think it was moved to the Mississippi in an effort to keep 3-letter calls viable longer -- obviously there were a LOT more people, and stations, east of the line than west.

 

[bossbill]

Common ownership is not required for owner A and owner B to share calls. I noted WMGC. WIRE is another. The AM WIRE became WIRE FM. The calls were later mistakenly assigned to a LPTV then somehow appeared on a LPFM. Our WIRE did not give permission. There are multiple owners.

At one time the LP calls had their own designation. If WIRE were in use it could not be assigned to any other service. The first I noticed was when I searched for WIRE. Again, I found WIRE LPTV and WIRE LP. '

Common ownership has not been required for shared call letters for at least 12 years. The WGLD call letters were in use in Indianapolis and another city many years ago.

WNAP is an example. WMGC. WGLD. WIRE.

Please cite the reference for required shared ownership to have the same call letters in another service. I have found multiple instances I have cited. One person keeps noting common ownership is required and this is not accurate based on practice and a Rule search. Not to say it was not once. I would like to know why if it is not alowed it is being allowed.

WMLK would be great calls forf a radiostation but they are on a marine vessel. Many other great calls are on boats.

I think he was referring to three-letter calls.

While common ownership is not required for a standard four-letter call, permission from the licensee in the other service is. If you have KXXX (AM), someone wanting KXXX (FM) would have to ask you. And it would become KXXX-FM, not KXXX(FM).

 

[PTBoardOp94]

On a side note, there are 35152 possible 4-letter calls, and we will probably never exhaust them all, but remember that some of them are allocated to maritime stations or the federal govt

We will probably never need to go 5-letter calls (which I believe are still allocated to something else... weather radio?)

Your calculation ignores the -FM, -TV, -LP, -CA, etc. suffixes, making the actual number of available calls much larger.

Weather radio has 5 "letter" calls of the form 'letter'-'letter'-'letter'-'number'-'number'.

 

[davideduardo]

Common ownership is not required for owner A and owner B to share calls. I noted WMGC. WIRE is another. The AM WIRE became WIRE FM. The calls were later mistakenly assigned to a LPTV then somehow appeared on a LPFM. Our WIRE did not give permission. There are multiple owners.

For a station in a different service to use the suffix-appropriate version of calls already in use, the current user must consent. Any non-consensual use is an error, like the "K" call in Michigan.

3-Letter calls may only be used by separate services of the same owner.

Common ownership has not been required for shared call letters for at least 12 years. The WGLD call letters were in use in Indianapolis and another city many years ago.

I said it is required for 3-letter calls. On 4's, consent is required and that has been the practice for close to 20 years.

As to consent, I gave an example of Clear Channel buying the FM "permission" to WMIA from WMIA (AM) in Arecibo, PR, for about $50 k. They got it cheap.

Please cite the reference for required shared ownership to have the same call letters in another service.

It applies to THREE LETTER CALLS ONLY. Please don't make me shout again, just reread the post. Neither this situation, the reclaiming of abandoned calls or the inability to get new 3-letter ones is in the rules... it's just "policy" and in effect now.

I have found multiple instances I have cited. One person keeps noting common ownership is required and this is not accurate based on practice and a Rule search. Not to say it was not once. I would like to know why if it is not alowed it is being allowed.

3 letter calls. 3 letter calls. 3 letter calls.

WMLK would be great calls forf a radiostation but they are on a marine vessel. Many other great calls are on boats.

I think they are on ships. I don't know any 3 letter calls on submarines (which are boats).

 

[landtuna]

I don't know any 3 letter calls on submarines (which are boats).

I am not aware of any commercial submarines (as opposed to submersibles like those at Woods Hole).

Military subs use the N call or their voice call sign equivalent.