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Does disco belong together with current dance?

http://www.radio-info.com/site/markets/grid/new-york

The ratings for NYC are updated every month right here on Radio Info. As Justin pointed out KTU is the second highest cuming station in the country with 5,551,500, and only about 100 K below Lite FM. They are third in 12+ share with a 4.8 (tied with New York's Classic Rock outlet).
KTU, on 103.5, has been around for nearly well over a decade, and they had an earlier run on 92.3 FM. They are a heritage station, but even KTU has shed its Disco records, as well as phased out most of its 80s music (though Michael Jackson records are receiving heavy airplay due to the current circumstances). So how would one describe the current sound of KTU? Dance Pop? Rhythmic/Pop? Recurrent leaning and Adult friendly Rhythmic CHR?
Whatever it is, and whatever it does, seems to resonate well with listeners in New York.
 
'KTU is a Rhythmic A/C station whose main targets are 25-54 females.

In terms of what I call the NYC dance fan "philosophy", the station caters more towards a "soccer mom" (one who USED to go to the clubs when she was younger but has now settled down, has kids, working, etc. They still like the music but don't go out to the clubs to keep up with the current trends, per se). The station HAS improved from the "tweak" to this format. Gone are the Gloria Gaynor, Bee Gees, Donna Summer, freestyle aspect while currents and recurrents from the past couple of years have been added.

For what it is, it is NOT a bad station. But for current based dance fans, it is not enough.
 
CHRles, thanks. The numbers cited seemed suspect because I was thinking revenue instead of ARB stats.

2008 top-10 billing stations, per BIA Financial Network

KIIS, Los Angeles: $66.3M
KROQ, Los Angeles: $56.1
KFI, Los Angeles: $54.4
WLTW, New York: $52.6
WINS, New York: $51.8
WTOP, Washington: $51.75
WHTZ, New York: $49.6
WCBS-AM, New York: $46.7
KPWR, Los Angeles: $46.3
KOST, Los Angeles: $45.7
 
Alan... KTU has been steadily growing throughout 2009 - so revenue numbers of 2008 won't show the impact of it's tweak and '09 growth. Since KTU began tweaking the infamous Rhythmic A/C "Tweak" to a heavy Classics lean a couple years ago; it's ratings have climbed as the number of Currents and Recurrents have increased in rotation... As the audience has become more tolerable and accepting of newer dance, KTU has added it.

I don't think there's a better time musically than now to really jump on current dance tracks... not only will this make KTU even more dancy for dance fans, but it can help flank Z100 and not make a lot of room for a station like NOW that is kind of a blend of a couple stations and targeting CHR and Z100.

I've been saying for years on here, "is a dance station really a dance station, if no one is listening?" Despite it's critics, when basically every other dance station in the country disappeared, KTU survived - cue Gloria Gaynor - they played various types of dance music and remained relevent and profitable enough to stay on the dial long term as musical tastes changed... musically, culture is a little more dancy again, and KTU is near the top of the ratings... coincidence?

The all mighty dollar rules and KTU has done what it needed to stay on the air and as a heritage station reaps the benefits of being top of the mind in DANCE when the general public goes looking for some beats in their lives again!
 
Justin Case said:
Alan... KTU has been steadily growing throughout 2009 - so revenue numbers of 2008 won't show the impact of it's tweak and '09 growth. Since KTU began tweaking the infamous Rhythmic A/C "Tweak" to a heavy Classics lean a couple years ago; it's ratings have climbed as the number of Currents and Recurrents have increased in rotation... As the audience has become more tolerable and accepting of newer dance, KTU has added it.

I don't think there's a better time musically than now to really jump on current dance tracks... not only will this make KTU even more dancy for dance fans, but it can help flank Z100 and not make a lot of room for a station like NOW that is kind of a blend of a couple stations and targeting CHR and Z100.

I've been saying for years on here, "is a dance station really a dance station, if no one is listening?" Despite it's critics, when basically every other dance station in the country disappeared, KTU survived - cue Gloria Gaynor - they played various types of dance music and remained relevent and profitable enough to stay on the dial long term as musical tastes changed... musically, culture is a little more dancy again, and KTU is near the top of the ratings... coincidence?

The all mighty dollar rules and KTU has done what it needed to stay on the air and as a heritage station reaps the benefits of being top of the mind in DANCE when the general public goes looking for some beats in their lives again!
Click to expand...

Justin,

I'm not going to knock 'KTU for what it is (and that last part "for what it is" stands out and will be repeated often).

- No one is going to dispute the ratings....for what it is.
- They have a strong audience....for what it is.
- Their brand of music is effective....for what it is.
- They have excellent on air personalities (Paul "Cubby" Bryant, Diane Prior, Hollywood Hamilton, Goumba Johnny, Jagger, Bartel)...and not just "for what it is", they are good :)

But can you answer me this...is Maroon 5 dance? (I say this because passing through the dial going to the doctors office, I heard Maroon 5's "This Love", the regular version on 'KTU.) Now note, I'm saying "for what it is"...they do well. But I really don't think 'KTU could have gotten to this point if it wasn't for a Pulse 87 and a lot more of a Maroon 5 sort of sound would have appeared. Be sure of that.

Examples? Okay. Kim Sozzi's "Feel Your Love" just got onto 'KTU's rotation about 2 months ago. Yet Pulse has been playing that track for over a year now and are on her follow up "Secret Love". Some online stations are on her number 3 track "Open Up Your Heart".

Another example? George Lamond. "Don't Stop Believin'" had also landed on 'KTU a few months ago. Yet if there were any new tracks that defined the very beginnings of Pulse 87, "Don't Stop Believin'" was it.

A third example if those two didn't "sell" it? Okay....Lady Gaga! She has been getting PHENOMENAL airplay throughout the country with "Just Dance" and "Poker Face", with some stations taking on "Love Game". Yet Pulse 87 was one of the very first stations (if not THE first) to play "Just Dance" as Lady Gaga was still a "struggling artist", to the point that she attended the DJ Expo artist panel last year. Now, you can't touch her...she's too far into the stratosphere! :)

Don't get me wrong, I am VERY grateful for 'KTU to give some of the current artists some rotation and I wish stations such as 93MIA (Miami) and My106.1 (Philadelphia) took on a 'KTU approach by leaning more current, for the type of stations that they are...rhythmic A/C. Not knocking 'KTU at all here; heck I'll even go as far as say that New York is lucky to have TWO stations that have the differing "brands" of dance music. But let's give credit to the listeners where it is due and let's keep it real. Listeners KNOW the difference with what 'KTU plays and what Pulse 87 and Party 105 plays. Saying that, most people consider Pulse 87 to be the dance station here and on top of the minds, despite their shortcomings (signal, financial issues, certain car stereos can't pick it up).

To that, I wish AnnaGrace the very best because "Let The Feelings Go" will be an excellent add for 'KTU in a few months. Yet Pulse is playing it now. ;)

I will conclude by saying this....should Pulse 87 disappear in the near future, it would only benefit 'KTU to "step it up" with more edgier currents such as Sybil's "Stronger" and Deborah Cox's "Leave The World Behind". At least until another dance station pops up...to which it will :)

ADDENDUM (edited)

If the huge and successful turnout at the Electric Zoo festival on Randall's Island this past Labor Day weekend has proven anything, it is the fact that people would be WILLING TO SPEND THE MONEY to hear the edgier dance sounds. Tickets were not cheap either....from $65 to over $220! So in that sense, there is a demand for the edgier dance material. People want it.
 
Is Maroon 5 dance? The question of whats dance and whats not is getting boring and at this point doesnt matter. The edgy dance fans dont consider George Lamond or Kim Sozzi dance. This genre wants to be an accepted format but continues to tell people what is dance and what is not. Most dance stations were a playing Maroon 5 or two. Now stations are playing remixes of Kings of Leon. Hell they are coming out with a remix album. As a programmer you have to embrace that. We need the Maroon 5s, Pitbulls, Flo Rida's and so on, to help break more dance artists into the mainstream.

You also cant go by what happened at the Electric Zoo. It was a big event and cost a lot of money, but people go to WMC just for the parties and they are packed. But you dont see dance stations popping up all over the place. A lot of these fans dont care for the commercial dance scene.

BTW the non-coms were the first to put Lady Gaga into rotation.
 
I think KTU is just positioning itself to be the dance friendly chr IF uptempo music continues to gain a greater share on the dial.This "dance" moniker can come back to bite those who have a narrow definition of what is dance. And dance in its simplest terms is music you can dance to,has an uptempo beat to it. Try telling a 12 yr old that lady gaga isn't really dance. When most likely they're dancing to it.That's probably why KTU calls itself " feel good music". That way they avoid all these debates as to what is or what is not music they should play.
 
Dancerev889 said:
Is Maroon 5 dance? The question of whats dance and whats not is getting boring and at this point doesnt matter. The edgy dance fans dont consider George Lamond or Kim Sozzi dance. This genre wants to be an accepted format but continues to tell people what is dance and what is not. Most dance stations were a playing Maroon 5 or two. Now stations are playing remixes of Kings of Leon. Hell they are coming out with a remix album. As a programmer you have to embrace that. We need the Maroon 5s, Pitbulls, Flo Rida's and so on, to help break more dance artists into the mainstream.

You also cant go by what happened at the Electric Zoo. It was a big event and cost a lot of money, but people go to WMC just for the parties and they are packed. But you dont see dance stations popping up all over the place. A lot of these fans dont care for the commercial dance scene.

BTW the non-coms were the first to put Lady Gaga into rotation.
Click to expand...

C'mon...this isn't boring and yeah, it matters! :) It's rather fun actually because this debate NEEDS to draw out issues here. We have to tackle this somehow and not push it under the rug.

Perhaps George and Kim may not be "edgy" per se. But (using the NYC area) their music HAS been played on Pulse 87 and Party 105 as well as 'KTU, and dance music fans have accepted it because yes, they are dance. But getting back to the Maroon 5 argument, I could understand if this was a remix of "This Love" because yes, you DO need some element of pop-remixes to help sell the format. And yes Pitbull and Flo Rida, love or hate 'em, DO matter in that picture. But to play the regular version of "This Love" on a station that has clearly advertised themselves as New York's Dance Music Leader (the proof is on the billboard - northbound NJ Turnpike before Exit 13.) comes off rather deceptive. On Morpheux's statement about "feel good music"....if I saw that same billboard with those words and I heard the regular versions of Maroon 5, then yes that makes sense because of what 'KTU is...a rhythmic adult contemporary station whereas yes, the music there HAS beats but can still maintain that side of A/C that borders in the area of a Lite FM of sorts. And once again....no diss on 'KTU in that regard. That is what they are and do well for their target audience.

Back on Maroon 5, sure Pulse 87 had Maroon 5 on their playlist but if I'm not mistaken, it was a remix...not the standard version. But yes, the Pitbulls, Flo Rida...and let's add in Cascada and Kim to this can help for this genre to go mainstream. At least for CHR to add on 2 or 3 more dance tracks somehow onto their current playlists.

The point I was hitting on Electric Zoo was the FACT that people DID spend money and want dance music in some sort of form. Heck, I plucked down $90 for a one day ticket. Yeah, the sounds may be underground but consider this.....the WMC has been around for 20 years so you expect people to come down to Miami and party (either at the hotel pool parties, the clubs or at Ultra). This is the VERY FIRST Electric Zoo done here. There were attempts to do other events like this in the past and for most of them, things fell apart. This venue was well promoted with many sponsors getting involved. If the sponsors felt that this wasn't worth the risk, especially for a first time event, then why spend the bucks for something that would have been a failure. And as it is, people turned out in droves so, sponsors did well! :)

Does that mean there will be dance stations sprouting up left and right? No, I agree with you on that. But the point I'm trying to hit here is that in whatever shape or form, the demand IS here and in due time, this format can be considered as a profit-making aspect for corporations for future "flip" considerations. And honestly, I think these same people that were there at EZ would tune in to dance stations throughout the country if this music is getting heard on the terrestrial side, regardless of being a hit or underground.

No one is expecting an "Area" on terrestrial radio. :)
 
It would work fine as long as it's not the mainstream "Stayin' Alive" or played out "YMCA". 96.3, WHYT in Detroit did it all the time in the 90s. Once an hour I think. Here were some they'd mix in:

Shame & Love Come Down- Evelyn King
Friends- Whodini (not disco but early rap)
Groove Line-Heatwave
I Feel Love-Donna Summer
Forget Me Nots-Patrice Rushen
...and many more
 
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