Does Oldies Encompass Too Long A Span of Years?

[vibe]

Is the target audience (as opposed to the people who actively listen) too large?
Can a market support "oldies 1, and oldies 2" formats? Oldies 1 would encompass anything from say 1954-1962 and oldies 2 from about 1963-70?
It's hard to believe that a 65-70 y.o graduating from high school in the 1950's has the same (or even close to ) musical tastes of a say, 55 y.o who graduated high school in 1968. I'm a tweener who enjoys oldies and classic rock (as well as many other formats.) Or am I just out of touch w/ the realities of radio?

 

[TheFonz]

Is the target audience (as opposed to the people who actively listen) too large?
Can a market support "oldies 1, and oldies 2" formats? Oldies 1 would encompass anything from say 1954-1962 and oldies 2 from about 1963-70?
It's hard to believe that a 65-70 y.o graduating from high school in the 1950's has the same (or even close to ) musical tastes of a say, 55 y.o who graduated high school in 1968. I'm a tweener who enjoys oldies and classic rock (as well as many other formats.) Or am I just out of touch w/ the realities of radio?

Unfortunatly terrestrial music radio isn't interested in anyone who graduated high school in 1968, or anytime before that. Too old. But satellite radio is more than willing to fill that void. And they do a great job!

 

[OldiesCat]

Oldies Span of Years?

Is the target audience (as opposed to the people who actively listen) too large?
Can a market support "oldies 1, and oldies 2" formats? Oldies 1 would encompass anything from say 1954-1962 and oldies 2 from about 1963-70?
It's hard to believe that a 65-70 y.o graduating from high school in the 1950's has the same (or even close to ) musical tastes of a say, 55 y.o who graduated high school in 1968. I'm a tweener who enjoys oldies and classic rock (as well as many other formats.) Or am I just out of touch w/ the realities of radio?

Well, your description of "Oldies 1" would have an average listener age in the mid-60s. Your "Oldies 2" would have virtually nobody under 55, both of which would get you very little 25-54 ratings success, thus very little revenue success. Things change and evolve and, for years, the Oldies format did not, for the most part targeting music from the late 50's to the early 70's. All of a sudden, the early 2000's hit and Oldies programmers are looking at their audiences and realizing, "you know, we'll have very few listeners under 55 pretty fast-NOW WHAT?".

Had the format gently evolved over the years, they wouldn't find themselves behing the eight-ball they are now, which is few devoted listeners under 55 and dwindling revenue. It's great playing Sam Cooke and Ronettes songs, but that doesn't pay for an airstaff, marketing and music research.

I doubt that's the answer you were looking for, but it is today's reality in the world of Oldies radio.

 

[vibe]

No-I can handle and more importantly value other's opinions From a marketing standpoint the over 55's are the most product loyal group there is (marketing 101).
From what I learned they will spend that money if motivated. Maybe the problem is lumping the 25 y.o's w/ the 54 y.o'ds in the same demographic group. Some 25 y.o's haven't even begun their nest yet and some 54 y.o's have been retired w/ the "kidz" out of the house for a number of years.
This could be a seperate issue but many 25-30 y.o'd have very narrow and defined musical tastes-they will support their habit so to speak. I'm over 55 but enjoys so many musical formats it's ridiculous; there's many people like that. Us over 55's may be technogically impaired but we do know how to use our presets. I think that an oldies 1 and oldies 2 could be successful in very large markets so that a more narrower range of music could be targeted to a very large audience.

 

[AZJoe]

Why do people assume no one under 55 will listen to oldies? People still listen to classical music and no one around was alive when that music first came out! I understand that people might prefer music from their formulative years 15-21, but oldies seem to have had an effect on more than just the generation that first heard them. I know many people in their 20s 30s & 40s that love oldies and classic rock, even tho they werent even born when the songs came out. Does it mean that when the generation who first heard the oldies dies off, these songs are gone too? I doubt it. Quality should have nothing to do with the age of a song.

 

[OldiesCat]

marketing to 55+

No-I can handle and more importantly value other's opinions From a marketing standpoint the over 55's are the most product loyal group there is (marketing 101).
From what I learned they will spend that money if motivated. Maybe the problem is lumping the 25 y.o's w/ the 54 y.o'ds in the same demographic group. Some 25 y.o's haven't even begun their nest yet and some 54 y.o's have been retired w/ the "kidz" out of the house for a number of years.
This could be a seperate issue but many 25-30 y.o'd have very narrow and defined musical tastes-they will support their habit so to speak. I'm over 55 but enjoys so many musical formats it's ridiculous; there's many people like that. Us over 55's may be technogically impaired but we do know how to use our presets. I think that an oldies 1 and oldies 2 could be successful in very large markets so that a more narrower range of music could be targeted to a very large audience.

You're right that 55+ are loyal consumers. But, the advertisers don't see long-term future in them and make virtually ZERO buys 55+, 35-54, etc. The big target cells are 25-54 and 18-49, so to them (this isn't my opinion but the way it is) there's no big benefit in targeting 55+ (which is why revenue on Oldies stations has been going down sharply for the past several years).

If you were going to put an Oldies-type station on today, IMHO, your music era span would be 1970-1980 (with a little mid-late 60s, some early-mid 80s) and shoot for early 40s to early 50 year olds. And, I wouldn't call it "Oldies" on-the-air. Little of the disco, little of the Barry/Babs/Neil soft AC type stuff- make it mass appeal Top 40 pop/rock.

 

[davideduardo]

No-I can handle and more importantly value other's opinions From a marketing standpoint the over 55's are the most product loyal group there is (marketing 101).

And that is exactly why 55+ is not of interest to advertisers... a lifetime of forming product loyalties is in place. To create a change would take so many ads over so much time that the return on the investment would be negative.

From what I learned they will spend that money if motivated.

It's all about ROI. If you have to spend $5 in advertising against a consumer, and you sell them a $3.99 profuct with less than a dollar in profit margin, you not only have to convert them into a repeat user but a frequent repeat user to get back the cost.

Maybe the problem is lumping the 25 y.o's w/ the 54 y.o'ds in the same demographic group. Some 25 y.o's haven't even begun their nest yet and some 54 y.o's have been retired w/ the "kidz" out of the house for a number of years. [/quote]

This is why advertisers like 18-34 and, especially, 25-34. They are in the process of forming preferences, and are open to trying new things. They can be swayed with very little advertising if they have an interest in the product category.

[/quote] I'm over 55 but enjoys so many musical formats it's ridiculous; there's many people like that. Us over 55's may be technogically impaired but we do know how to use our presets. I think that an oldies 1 and oldies 2 could be successful in very large markets so that a more narrower range of music could be targeted to a very large audience.
[/quote]

As I have posted before, in 2006 the radio buys against 55+ by agencies (local, regional or national) that we saw in a 4-station cluster that includes the #1 and #2 stations in the market were... ZERO. There just is no buying against older demos, and that is not the agency decision, either... it comes from the marketing department at the client where they know who buys and who much.

 

[MarkL]

Is the target audience (as opposed to the people who actively listen) too large?
Can a market support "oldies 1, and oldies 2" formats? Oldies 1 would encompass anything from say 1954-1962 and oldies 2 from about 1963-70?
It's hard to believe that a 65-70 y.o graduating from high school in the 1950's has the same (or even close to ) musical tastes of a say, 55 y.o who graduated high school in 1968. I'm a tweener who enjoys oldies and classic rock (as well as many other formats.) Or am I just out of touch w/ the realities of radio?

How about Cincinatti? WDJO plays late 50's and 60's. WGRR plays late 60's and 70's. This might be as close as you can get to "Oldies 1" and "Oldies 2." Of course the good guys at WDJO don't do it for the money - they do it for the love of the music.

 

[radiofriend1]

Is the target audience (as opposed to the people who actively listen) too large?
Can a market support "oldies 1, and oldies 2" formats? Oldies 1 would encompass anything from say 1954-1962 and oldies 2 from about 1963-70?
It's hard to believe that a 65-70 y.o graduating from high school in the 1950's has the same (or even close to ) musical tastes of a say, 55 y.o who graduated high school in 1968. I'm a tweener who enjoys oldies and classic rock (as well as many other formats.) Or am I just out of touch w/ the realities of radio?

How about Cincinatti? WDJO plays late 50's and 60's. WGRR plays late 60's and 70's. This might be as close as you can get to "Oldies 1" and "Oldies 2." Of course the good guys at WDJO don't do it for the money - they do it for the love of the music.

so for the minority of listeners who are oldies freaks that's great

 

[Johnny Morgan]

so for the minority of listeners who are oldies freaks that's great

It is great. Minorities--actual, residual, perceived--need to have a voice in the wilderness too.

If a signal owner is willing to offer them such a format, then I'd be applauding them--not giving back-handed compliments.

 

[amfmsw]

If we'd follow some of the opinions expressed here, ALL stations should be Hip-Hop or Active Rock. Nothing else is wanted by the advertiser. Disney...too young. News/Talk...too old. AC...too boring. Country...too little income. Oldies...too dead. Here's an idea, let's have 15 signals targeting the same 18-34 year olds, and slice the pie of revenue 15 ways! That's rediculous! Fellas, your generalizing.

As for Oldies 1 & 2. It works in South Jersey with 3 FM's and 2 AM's. It failed in Philly with WOGL-FM a winner, and WIOQ-FM, WFIL-AM, WPGR-AM and WPEN-AM losers. To support two, you need great personalities, community involvement, and teriffic signals.

And just because an Oldies station doesn't get bought nationally in your market DOES NOT MEAN other similar stations did not get the buy. Maybe they need a better sales team.

 

[radiofriend1]

And just because an Oldies station doesn't get bought nationally in your market DOES NOT MEAN other similar stations did not get the buy. Maybe they need a better sales team.

maybe they need listeners with less than an average of 60

advertisers are, by and large, have no interest in targeting 55+ and are not pouring many ad $$$ into stations who don't do well 25-54 at least not enough to be able to flourish on the revenue side

 

[OldiesCat]

Oldies sales

And just because an Oldies station doesn't get bought nationally in your market DOES NOT MEAN other similar stations did not get the buy. Maybe they need a better sales team.

maybe they need listeners with less than an average of 60

advertisers are, by and large, have no interest in targeting 55+ and are not pouring many ad $$$ into stations who don't do well 25-54 at least not enough to be able to flourish on the revenue side

Agree. If you're not performing well 25-54 or 18-49 (regardless of format), you're not in the game in your market. All the properly trained Account Executives can't change ad buyers' demo desires. It's not the agencies' fault, not the AE's fault, not the ad buyers' fault and it's not the listeners' fault. The simple truth, ladies and gentlemen, is that you cannot do anything to change the fact that Oldies stations' audiences are aging out of advertiser's desirable demo cells. You could make a case that Oldies stations should have been evolving their era balances all along, but it's too late- you can't go back in time (that only works in "Back To The Future" movies and they are make believe).

You have a complaint about it? Please take it up with the major advertisers around the country. But, please quit hollering at those of us who refuse to be in denial about today's Oldies format realities.

 

[AZJoe]

No problem with the fact that the people who sell things dont want to sell them to the older demos and the oldies format just doesnt pay off for them anymore- but likewise, terrestrial radio cant bellyache about oldies fans going to ipods, internet and Sirius & XM. Yet they do. They can't have it both ways..... they hate the competition, yet don't want to let go of that audience. All I ever hear is that those alternate forms of listening dont measure up and wont last.... get real!!

 

[radiofriend1]

No problem with the fact that the people who sell things dont want to sell them to the older demos and the oldies format just doesnt pay off for them anymore- but likewise, terrestrial radio cant bellyache about oldies fans going to ipods, internet and Sirius & XM. Yet they do. They can't have it both ways..... they hate the competition, yet don't want to let go of that audience. All I ever hear is that those alternate forms of listening dont measure up and wont last.... get real!!

LOL only people i hear bellyache are radio jocks who still wanna live in the era of elvis. radio execs and programmers aren't trying to have it both ways. if the audience u R letting go of will do nothing to help the competition, so what?????

 

[semoochie]

Awhile back, someone stated the order of the buys. I think it was 25-54W, 25-54A, 18-34W, 18-34A and 25-54M. After all that, how much is left for 18-34M and is it really much more than 35-64W or 35-64A? My point is that the Alternative, Active Rock and to some extent Classic Rock and Sports formats still exist and there doesn't seem to be much of a pie left!

 

[davideduardo]

Awhile back, someone stated the order of the buys. I think it was 25-54W, 25-54A, 18-34W, 18-34A and 25-54M. After all that, how much is left for 18-34M and is it really much more than 35-64W or 35-64A? My point is that the Alternative, Active Rock and to some extent Classic Rock and Sports formats still exist and there doesn't seem to be much of a pie left!

There are no 35-64 buys. there are essentially no buys for anyting 55+.

Nearly 100& of buys are in 18-49 or 25-54 or some subset of that. Some are so specific as to be "second generation Hispanic females 25-44" or similar. Others are Adiults 25-54 or 18-49 or whatever. But all are inside the 18 to 54 borders.

By the way, 18-34 males (or 25-34 males if drinking age is 21) are the prime target for beers... 55+ is a prime target for nobody.

The only place advertisers will do some over-50 targeting is in local sales... you may find a Buick dealer who wants 50+, as they have an established old clientele to protect. The larger the market, the less direct selling is done. I have been in one large market where at least the top 5 to 8 stations did 95% of thier billing with agency accounts and did not even waste time selling direct (I was GSM of one of those stations and saw it myself).

 

[semoochie]

It seems to defeat the purpose of the 35+(formerly 35-64)Committee! Does it still exist and if so, why?

 

[radiofriend1]

It seems to defeat the purpose of the 35+(formerly 35-64)Committee! Does it still exist and if so, why?

35+ hasn't been a big sales demo for years..........since the mid-to-late seventies

 

[davideduardo]

It seems to defeat the purpose of the 35+(formerly 35-64)Committee! Does it still exist and if so, why?

35+ hasn't been a big sales demo for years..........since the mid-to-late seventies

35-54 is definitely a big demo, but nobody buys 35+.