Does Salem have a case?

[TheBigA]

I could see someone saying it's a government endorsing religion of one type or another because it's a government agency [FCC] issuing them the license.

There's a long history of religious radio in this country, going back to the 1920s. The first amendment is pretty clear about endorsing ONE religion, but the way it's phrased, it can't be used against religion in general. Preacher Amy Semple McPherson was very forceful in her communication with the government. She allegedly wrote ''Keep your minions of satan way from my radio station.''

Every religion has the same right to the same airwaves. No religion is given preference over another. Some groups are just better at it than others.

 

[K.M. Richards]

And just to be clear, I am not a huge fan of them, although the music on some is tolerable. [Can't remember what station I stumbled across but it was an actual Heavy Metal Christian song and all I could think was just "Wow!"] My big problem is they are supposed to be NON-COMMERCIAL stations on the non-commercial end of the frequency yet they have been "invading" the commercial spectrum of the frequency quite regularly.

I agree on your last point and in particular, I think EMF's exponential (almost obscene) growth would never have taken place if they had been limited to acquiring stations below 92MHz. At the very least, I believe that if they occupy a commercial allocation they should be required to keep the license commercial and pay the accordingly higher annual FCC fees.

Of course, there are also cases like Pacifica's WBAI, which also holds a non-commercial license in the commercial part of the band; they, and other such anomalies, would have to be subject to the same provisions or there would be grounds for complaint of discrimination based on religion. (In that broader definition of discrimination, the First Amendment would not even come into play.)

Is it worth mentioning that the 1980s/90s Christian rock group The Call still gets airplay on Alternative stations?

 

[davideduardo]

There's a long history of religious radio in this country, going back to the 1920s. T

We can see many early religious station operations, perhaps the most famous being Amy Semple McPherson's operation in Los Angeles.

And today, with few investors wanting radio stations, we are going to be seeing more religious and special interest groups buying stations.

 

[TheBigA]

And today, with few investors wanting radio stations, we are going to be seeing more religious and special interest groups buying stations.

That's really the issue with religious groups buying stations in the commercial band. This would not be possible if there were more commercial broadcasters offering to buy those licenses. No one could ever imagine WPLJ in NYC being sold to a religious group. But they made the best offer and it was accepted. I've suggested many ways for fans of various musical genres to do the same thing as EMF. All it takes is the ability to organize and put together a competitive offer.

 

[Kelly A]

Not just RKO. KMPC in 1950 is a good example here, and a more relevant comparison to the Salem case:

Newscaster Tells of Order to 'Slant'

I REALLY recommend anyone read the contents of that link before commenting.

Following a hearing, the chief counsel of the FCC recommended George A. Richards be stripped of his licenses, but before oral arguments could begin, Richards died. His widow sold KMPC to Gene Autry.

Kind of reminds me of what a couple cable TV networks do weekly. One in particular settled for North of three quarters of a billion dollars, so not related to a license, but they felt the pain none the less.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Warning: I am about to present a circular argument. If you get caught up in it, you may have trouble finding the exit. 🙄

That's really the issue with religious groups buying stations in the commercial band. This would not be possible if there were more commercial broadcasters offering to buy those licenses. No one could ever imagine WPLJ in NYC being sold to a religious group. But they made the best offer and it was accepted. I've suggested many ways for fans of various musical genres to do the same thing as EMF. All it takes is the ability to organize and put together a competitive offer.

The religious broadcasters are pretty much all sitting on piles of cash donated by their loyal audience who are somehow convinced that their "radio from Heaven" would go off the air tomorrow if they didn't. (I know of one particularly odious religious "network" which actually encourages their listeners to tithe a percentage of their income to them, and they are the most efficient at that "donate or we can't stay on the air" pitch.)

Those piles of cash, if they were a commercial broadcaster, would be used for operating expenses. Part of the reason the commercial broadcasters get outbid is that EMF (and VCY, and Family, and pretty much all the rest of them) comes in, buys a station, shuts down the local offices, studios, and phone number, puts a satellite dish at the transmitter site with a simple automation system to play the legal I.D. once an hour, and then their only expense is the electric bill and whatever engineering maintenance might be occasionally needed.

And that is why they can outbid anyone else when they want a station in a market. EMF paid more for 100.3 in Los Angeles when Entercom had to spin it off than any of the commercial groups could, because the latter had to consider expenses and EMF did not. Same thing with WPLJ. (And VCY did the same to acquire two of the stations in the Stolz' bankruptcy, for that matter.) And now they are all making even more money to toss onto the pile because each acquisition brings a new group of sheep ... er, listeners to donate, or tithe, or whatever.

There is no such thing as a "competitive" offer when the unfairness of the religious broadcasters' direct listener-provided revenue is contrasted against their much lower operating costs ... and when each new station acquired by those piles of cash practically guarantees that the pile will be bigger the next time they want to outbid everyone else for a signal.

So I can't buy your argument, A. The deck is stacked against everyone else.

 

[Kelly A]

That's really the issue with religious groups buying stations in the commercial band. This would not be possible if there were more commercial broadcasters offering to buy those licenses. No one could ever imagine WPLJ in NYC being sold to a religious group. But they made the best offer and it was accepted. I've suggested many ways for fans of various musical genres to do the same thing as EMF. All it takes is the ability to organize and put together a competitive offer.

But you know as well as I, that most music nerds/aficionado's aren't necessarily good at business like radio requires. They're too wound up about the nuances and planting their flag on some hill, while not paying attention to serving a broader audience and their customers-advertisers.

 

[Kelly A]

Warning: I am about to present a circular argument. If you get caught up in it, you may have trouble finding the exit. 🙄



The religious broadcasters are pretty much all sitting on piles of cash donated by their loyal audience who are somehow convinced that their "radio from Heaven" would go off the air tomorrow if they didn't. (I know of one particularly odious religious "network" which actually encourages their listeners to tithe a percentage of their income to them, and they are the most efficient at that "donate or we can't stay on the air" pitch.)

This has been going on for decades. Religion is based around guilt, so the ability to bilk little ol' ladies out of their social security checks comes with the territory.

Those piles of cash, if they were a commercial broadcaster, would be used for operating expenses. Part of the reason the commercial broadcasters get outbid is that EMF (and VCY, and Family, and pretty much all the rest of them) comes in, buys a station, shuts down the local offices, studios, and phone number, puts a satellite dish at the transmitter site with a simple automation system to play the legal I.D. once an hour, and then their only expense is the electric bill and whatever engineering maintenance might be occasionally needed.

Actually now most use a simple Internet connection, including Starlink. Traditional satellites are being phased out due to cost.

There is no such thing as a "competitive" offer when the unfairness of the religious broadcasters' direct listener-provided revenue is contrasted against their much lower operating costs.

This is true. When I sold my last Class C FM, I'd had it on the block for over a year. EMF came along with by far the best offer and the promise for a short time Commission review. And you know what? They made good on their promise.

So I can't buy your argument, A. The deck is stacked against everyone else.

There are some stations, like Class A's in smaller markets that these groups aren't interested in. That's why I keep telling these radio nerds who think they can do better than us pros, to take out a second mortgage and buy a station or two. Nothing will show you what it's like until you're sitting down at the kitchen table at 1AM writing checks while praying enough collections come in the following week to cover at least half of the checks. Talk about getting religion!

 

[K.M. Richards]

Those piles of cash, if they were a commercial broadcaster, would be used for operating expenses. Part of the reason the commercial broadcasters get outbid is that EMF (and VCY, and Family, and pretty much all the rest of them) comes in, buys a station, shuts down the local offices, studios, and phone number, puts a satellite dish at the transmitter site with a simple automation system to play the legal I.D. once an hour, and then their only expense is the electric bill and whatever engineering maintenance might be occasionally needed

Actually now most use a simple Internet connection, including Starlink. Traditional satellites are being phased out due to cost.

GREAT. Now they have an even lower cost of operation.

There are some stations, like Class A's in smaller markets that these groups aren't interested in.

Very true, but even if they did, there would not be as much listener opposition to a Class A changing hands than a WPLJ or KSWD.

My point is that these groups can afford to buy the larger market, bigger signal stations because of the inequity of their finances compared to any commercial broadcaster. Which is why I think they should, at the very least, have to pay the annual FCC fee commensurate with being on a commercial allocation and then the coverage of same. It might at least slow them down a little, for a while.

 

[Kelly A]

Very true, but even if they did, there would not be as much listener opposition to a Class A changing hands than a WPLJ or KSWD.

You're right, but rightfully so, they're interested in population density for that edge when it comes to reaching the largest audience.

My point is that these groups can afford to buy the larger market, bigger signal stations because of the inequity of their finances compared to any commercial broadcaster. Which is why I think they should, at the very least, have to pay the annual FCC fee commensurate with being on a commercial allocation and then the coverage of same. It might at least slow them down a little, for a while.

I like the concept, but you know it would be challenged in court for discriminating against a religious group or organization.
Heck, Christa Ministries in the Seattle area managed to challenge and win against federal EEO laws by allowing religious stations/organizations to discriminate against applicants of religions other than Christians.

 

[TheBigA]

I like the concept, but you know it would be challenged in court for discriminating against a religious group or organization.

Correct, in fact right now the religious broadcasters have a case in front of the Supreme Court saying their music royalty rates are higher than NPR's:

Supreme Court Asked To Overturn CRB Streaming Rates For Religious Radio Stations.

Religious broadcasters are asking the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn a Copyright Royalty Board rate-setting decision that they allege is violating federal law by requiring religious stations to pay more

www.insideradio.com

Religious Broadcasters: CRB ‘Backpedaling’ On Rate Decision, Want Supreme Court To Step In.

Apparently there is a law that says they should pay the lowest royalties of anyone.

 

[TomásEstefan]

Salem which owns KKLA and 95.9 the fish might win this case. The article does not state how much is owed. So it must be significant amount

Don't forget KRLA 570 "The Answer"

 

[K.M. Richards]

My point is that these groups can afford to buy the larger market, bigger signal stations because of the inequity of their finances compared to any commercial broadcaster. Which is why I think they should, at the very least, have to pay the annual FCC fee commensurate with being on a commercial allocation and then the coverage of same. It might at least slow them down a little, for a while.

I like the concept, but you know it would be challenged in court for discriminating against a religious group or organization.
Heck, Christa Ministries in the Seattle area managed to challenge and win against federal EEO laws by allowing religious stations/organizations to discriminate against applicants of religions other than Christians.

Well, as I said earlier in the thread, if the fee applied equally to all licensees operating on commercial authorizations, and included all non-profits (both religious and non-religious) who held such licenses, the principles of that EEO challenge and the CRB matter would not apply because the basis for any "discrimination" would be based on whether you were licensed between 88-92 or between 92-108.

"We're a religious organization and this discriminates against us."
"Pacifica is also a non-profit organization on a commercial frequency, which is the same basis for the fee as is being applied to you. Religion does not enter into the basis. Case dismissed."

 

[TheBigA]

"We're a religious organization and this discriminates against us."
"Pacifica is also a non-profit organization on a commercial frequency, which is the same basis for the fee as is being applied to you. Religion does not enter into the basis. Case dismissed."

There are also WNYC and WQXR, both of which are non-profits in the commercial zone, but not religious.

To me, the inequity is that non-profits are allowed in the commercial zone, while the NCE area is still restricted. To me, it makes that restriction obsolete. The restriction may have been useful in the early days of FM, but no longer.

 

[Kent]

I've always wondered, at least when it comes to religious stations, if someone who may be atheist or just cranky towards religion in general, routinely files license renewal arguments against against them.

These kinds of disputes don’t happen much anymore. I believe it was the Telecommunications Act that required the FCC to presume all license renewals were in the public interest. It also prohibited filing for an allocation of a station or permit already licensed. Thirty years ago, if you didn’t like EMF having 95.5 in NYC or 100.3 in LA, you could file for those frequencies yourself when those licenses went up for renewal. Winning a license that way was rare, but it occasionally happened.

That's not to say you can’t get a license renewal denied, but the burden of proof is now on the objector. That makes routinely filing objections a waste of time. Without a clear legally sound reason, you can’t get a license designated for hearing. You can’t win an objection without making a strong case If you manage getting it to hearing.

 

[michael hagerty]

Don't forget KRLA 570 "The Answer"

870. 570 is KLAC.

 

[Rusty Muck]

You would have thought that Salem may have shown this to their insurance company BEFORE releasing/backing it so the insurance company could have said "Are you outta your minds?!?! Delete this, edit that, etc. before you let it out into the wild or we're washing our hands of you! YOU can say 'God will provide' but we sure won't if you let this out without the cuts"

That implies there was even a shred of common sense used in the first place.

 

[TomásEstefan]

870. 570 is KLAC.

You got that right...I must have Dodgers on the brain right now!

 

[michael hagerty]

You would have thought that Salem may have shown this to their insurance company BEFORE releasing/backing it so the insurance company could have said "Are you outta your minds?!?! Delete this, edit that, etc. before you let it out into the wild or we're washing our hands of you! YOU can say 'God will provide' but we sure won't if you let this out without the cuts"

That's what lawyers are supposed to do.

If you approach an insurance company to say you're about to do something that could result in a claim, the insurance company will simply tell you not to.

And let's be clear: Salem did not want to be told "no" or to water it down. They weren't looking for a "responsible" approach. This movie was propaganda with no basis in fact intended to further the lie that the 2020 election was stolen.

 

[TheBigA]

This movie was propaganda with no basis in fact intended to further the lie that the 2020 election was stolen.

People make propaganda movies all the time. That's not the issue here. They defamed a private citizen and said he was committing a crime. That's stepping over a line.