Does WKLU 101.9 Indpls, plan to increase coverage area toward Cincinnati?

[Radio Dav]

MacOConnor
rimember

WURK Elwood Sold To EMF
« on: Today at 12:08:59 PM » Quote

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According to All Access Oct. 6...

Will they
1) Simulcast 101.9
2) Downgrade or move 101.7 to allow 101.9 upgrade
3) Other


signalid

Posts: 34


Re: WURK Elwood Sold To EMF
« Reply #1 on: Today at 12:22:38 PM » Quote Modify

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Not sure they can upgrade 101.9 much more, they would put there contour closer to WKRQ 101.9, they would have to go directional or cut power to protect WKRQ.

I think if they did find a way to upgrade 101.9 any more they might start hearing them on certain sides of the hills around Cincy, then a result of complaints.

As of now I heard WKLU 101.9 past Batesville on I74.

 

[NoWayNoCC]

WURK Elwood Sold To EMF

Yet another reason to repeal the 1996 Telecommunications Act.

As of now I heard WKLU 101.9 past Batesville on I74.

Is Batesville within Q-102's contour? I thought Q-102 was a Class B that has a right - a gosh-darn freakin' RIGHT - to be heard in Batesville. I thought WKLU was a Class B1 at best, and Class A until only recently.

Since Batesville is much closer to Cincinnati than it is to Indianapolis, you should be able to get a Class B from Cincinnati instead of a Class B1 from Indianapolis.

In other words, something ain't right.

 

[Timewarp]

WKLU is and always was a short spaced Class A. Senator Edward M Kennedy pulled some strings
at the FCC so that Bruce Quinn a radio pirate could have this license 20 years ago.

EMF would have to buy 3 more licenses including WKRQ to upgrade to a Class B.

The hills west of Cincinnati block WKRQ's signal yet reflect WKLU's signal. This is why WKLU
can be heard near Cincinnati. It's the terrain.

 

[Radio Dav]

I thought the hills around Cincinnati block several of the radio stations signal, before 101.9 was on in Brownsburg Indpls, WKRQ came in often around Franklin / Greenwood IN, but that getting out a distance where Q 102 may have cleared those hills around Harrison.

To bad someone could not move the old WAVE analog 3 tower to near those other tower sites. When WAVE was analog it was on a tower that 1739 feet NNW of La Grange KY. The top of the tower may not be used for anything anymore. Heard WAVe moved back NW of Louisville on Floyds Knob.

That would been a ideal tower in Cincinnati. If Cincinnati had that tower there, WKRQ, WEBN, other class B stations in the same area could operate about 8k watts at 1298ft or 4k at 1732ft.

 

[greg.hahn]

I thought the hills around Cincinnati block several of the radio stations signal, before 101.9 was on in Brownsburg Indpls, WKRQ came in often around Franklin / Greenwood IN, but that getting out a distance where Q 102 may have cleared those hills around Harrison.

To bad someone could not move the old WAVE analog 3 tower to near those other tower sites. When WAVE was analog it was on a tower that 1739 feet NNW of La Grange KY. The top of the tower may not be used for anything anymore. Heard WAVe moved back NW of Louisville on Floyds Knob.

That would been a ideal tower in Cincinnati. If Cincinnati had that tower there, WKRQ, WEBN, other class B stations in the same area could operate about 8k watts at 1298ft or 4k at 1732ft.

What? Move the tower from LaGrange, KY to Cincinnati? That's crazy talk. Probably be cheaper to buy a new tower.

 

[Radio Dav]

Yes the labor would make it be a lot of money. Sometimes cell phone companies will buy a site and reduce the tower around 500 feet.

I guess they reuse the tower some where else.


A tower 1739 feet won't be cheap in no means, looking at that structure in Cincinnati would look like the huge skyscrapper in Chicago...

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I thought the hills around Cincinnati block several of the radio stations signal, before 101.9 was on in Brownsburg Indpls, WKRQ came in often around Franklin / Greenwood IN, but that getting out a distance where Q 102 may have cleared those hills around Harrison.

To bad someone could not move the old WAVE analog 3 tower to near those other tower sites. When WAVE was analog it was on a tower that 1739 feet NNW of La Grange KY. The top of the tower may not be used for anything anymore. Heard WAVe moved back NW of Louisville on Floyds Knob.

That would been a ideal tower in Cincinnati. If Cincinnati had that tower there, WKRQ, WEBN, other class B stations in the same area could operate about 8k watts at 1298ft or 4k at 1732ft.

What? Move the tower from LaGrange, KY to Cincinnati? That's crazy talk. Probably be cheaper to buy a new tower.

Amen brother...I've read some off the wall stuff on here, but moving the LaGrange tower to Cincinnati sets a new standard of some sort.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Let me answer the original question in the thread : No.

 

[Radio Dav]

If I remember right several, if not all of those towers around Cincinnati's antenna farm near downtown, are self supporting they take much less space because no guy wires spread out across acres.

When I think about this, I can imagine someone has thought about going up higher years ago, maybe the FAA would not approve a taller tower in that current area.

I could be wrong but that's why some areas in other cities could not put up a taller tower because the FAA would not allow them to.

Another thought, sense WKRC is around 305 meters, possible put up another self supporting tower around 302 meters near the WKRC tower site. The new tower would let stations go up another 124 feet higher, that should help improve stations trying to get over the higher peaks around Cincinnati.

In the past I heard Cincinnati really needed to have some class C stations.
When the FCC came out with C0 they should have tried to come out with a class BC and class CB 75k watts at 492ft but for stations to upgrade to that they would need distance separation set around between a class B, C2, and C1.

Now days around here it would be hard to get the space to upgrade these stations because there is so many stations packed in around the populated areas.


After looking at ways to upgrade WKLU 101.9, several stations would have to be moved or down graded. It would been cheaper to buy a station that is already a class B or B1 there. If it was some where like Tampa, Miami or a larger market it might be worth it.

The talks about WLS going dark is crazy, why would someone let a station go dark, when they could sell it. If they did let WLS go dark, that would be like walking a way from a house you bought, you just lost all the money you had in your house, when you could have made some of the money back. Maybe WLS is for sell but going dark would not be a option.

Yes there seems to be a lot of hiss around WLS 890, noticed that on WHAS 840 to. Back in the days when I wanted to hear an AM station better in my car, would double the length of the antenna and AM stations came in much better.

 

[Flying-Dutchman]

I guess since WKLU was once my station, I built it, I should answer this thread. WKLU can make no
change that will increase interference to 101.9 in Cincinnati.

The reports of WKLU being heard in Ohio are caused by tropospheric ducting. This happens frequently
between April and October. It goes the other way as well. I have heard Cincinnati FM's 200 miles out.

 

[techie2]

In the past I heard Cincinnati really needed to have some class C stations.
When the FCC came out with C0 they should have tried to come out with a class BC and class CB 75k watts at 492ft but for stations to upgrade to that they would need distance separation set around between a class B, C2, and C1.

Now days around here it would be hard to get the space to upgrade these stations because there is so many stations packed in around the populated areas.

You can't have a Class C in Cincinnati because it is in Zone I.

 

[MikeStandardsFromIndiana]

I guess since WKLU was once my station, I built it, I should answer this thread. WKLU can make no
change that will increase interference to 101.9 in Cincinnati.

The reports of WKLU being heard in Ohio are caused by tropospheric ducting. This happens frequently
between April and October. It goes the other way as well. I have heard Cincinnati FM's 200 miles out.

Bruce up here in anderson Indiana. besides the Dayton FM's the Cincinnati FM's are my 2nd most tropo ducted stations i get here. followed by Ft Wayne, St Louis, Evansville, Louisville and Columbus

 

[MikeStandardsFromIndiana]

In the past I heard Cincinnati really needed to have some class C stations.
When the FCC came out with C0 they should have tried to come out with a class BC and class CB 75k watts at 492ft but for stations to upgrade to that they would need distance separation set around between a class B, C2, and C1.

Now days around here it would be hard to get the space to upgrade these stations because there is so many stations packed in around the populated areas.

You can't have a Class C in Cincinnati because it is in Zone I.

The only way Cincinnati could have a Class C Signal is for a station to manage to get its tower stationed in Kentucky. but i dont think the fcc usually allows a city of License for one state to get another state tower classification for license

 

[Radio Dav]

WYGY went from Lebanon OH when Viacom owned them and moved to FT Thomas KY to become a C3.

I just heard with the hills Cincinnati had they needed more than a class B to get across the terrain better.

That why I think the FCC should came out with a class BC from 39.5 degrees and south, then in KY it would be called CB both having 75k watts.

That would be impossible around here now days with out down grading another station like a C1 or C2 the band is clogged up.

 

[Elephant]

Mike says: " i dont think the fcc usually allows a city of License for one state to get another state tower classification for license"

Huh? Mike, do you make these things up in your head or what? There are numerous stations licensed across the river from their towers:

WKRC-AM is licensed to Cincinnati, OH with towers in Cold Spring, KY
WNOP-AM is licensed to Newport, KY with towers in Cincinnati (Delhi)
WCVX-AM is licensed to Cincinnati, OH with tower in Covington, KY right next to the Brent Spence Bridge
WCKY-AM is licensed to Cincinnati, OH with towers in Villa Hills, KY
WYGY-FM is licensed to Fort Thomas, KY with tower in Cincinnati, OH (STAR Tower)
WIZF-FM is licensed to Erlanger, KY with tower in Cincinnati, OH (Price Hill)
WXIX-TV is licensed to Newport, KY with tower in Cincinnati, OH (right next to the Western Hills Viaduct)

 

[BobOnTheJob]

You can't have a Class C in Cincinnati because it is in Zone I.
[/quote]

But you can have the tower across the river in Class C country. WPAY-FM Portsmouth,OH is a good example. This map shows their tower south of the river, but their city of license in Ohio. http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WPAY&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

The real limiting factor is that the dial is so packed that finding a way to meet the spacing requirements of a Class C in that area would require buying, silencing & re-locating a number of stations that would quickly reach Biblical proportions.

 

[MikeStandardsFromIndiana]

Mike says: " i dont think the fcc usually allows a city of License for one state to get another state tower classification for license"

Huh? Mike, do you make these things up in your head or what? There are numerous stations licensed across the river from their towers:

WKRC-AM is licensed to Cincinnati, OH with towers in Cold Spring, KY
WNOP-AM is licensed to Newport, KY with towers in Cincinnati (Delhi)
WCVX-AM is licensed to Cincinnati, OH with tower in Covington, KY right next to the Brent Spence Bridge
WCKY-AM is licensed to Cincinnati, OH with towers in Villa Hills, KY
WYGY-FM is licensed to Fort Thomas, KY with tower in Cincinnati, OH (STAR Tower)
WIZF-FM is licensed to Erlanger, KY with tower in Cincinnati, OH (Price Hill)
WXIX-TV is licensed to Newport, KY with tower in Cincinnati, OH (right next to the Western Hills Viaduct)

Elephant i was Talking bout purposely trying to get your tower in Class C Country with a class B COL. just to get a Class C Facility. and if you look at most of your stations are AM's with COL's in Cincy and KY Towers. and the 2 fms have Class B Towers while COL's in KY and TV Stations dont have CLasses for Full power stations

 

[Elephant]

OK Mike. You got me on that one. Didn't understand it until you clarified.

 

[w9wi]

Elephant i was Talking bout purposely trying to get your tower in Class C Country with a class B COL. just to get a Class C Facility. and if you look at most of your stations are AM's with COL's in Cincy and KY Towers. and the 2 fms have Class B Towers while COL's in KY and TV Stations dont have CLasses for Full power stations

You can get a Class C allotment even if your city of license is in Class B territory. It's pretty rare though.

- The aforementioned WPAY-FM 104.1 Portsmouth -- COL squarely in Class B territory but tower in Class C in Kentucky.
- WARH 106.5 Granite City, Illinois. All towns in Illinois are firmly east of the Mississippi and in Zone I. But WARH's tower is in Missouri & they got a Class C (actually, C1) assignment.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM128451.html

TV stations don't have classes but they do have zones. TV and FM Zones I and II are roughly identical. (FM Zone I is Class B territory; Zone II is Class C) In analog, VHF stations in Zone I were required to reduce power if their antenna height exceeded 305m (1,000'). In Zone II, power reductions weren't required until tower height reached 610m (2,000'). Similar rules exist for digital TV.

Rock Island, Illinois, like Granite City, is east of the Mississippi and in TV Zone I. WHBF-TV is licensed there. Their analog antenna was 408m HAAT - and they were allowed to use the full 100kw analog power. Their antenna was (is) on a tower in Iowa, in TV Zone II.

Now, while you can have a Class C allotment to a town that's located in Zone I, in Class B territory, it's very, very rare. Offhand, WPAY, WARH, and WHBF are the only three I can think of. (will not be surprised if someone can cite another one, probably near St. Louis)

When allotments were made in Cincinnati (and elsewhere in cities in Zone I) they were made as Class B allotments. FCC policy wouldn't prevent those allotments being changed to Class C, if a properly-spaced tower site could be found in Zone II.

Problem is, other allotments were made on the assumption the Cincinnati allotments would be Class B. Those other allotments are too close to Cincinnati to allow for a properly-spaced tower site for Class C operation -- the increased coverage area of the Class C Cincinnati station would interfere with, and/or be interfered with by -- these other allotments. Offhand I would suppose WKLU and WVOW-FM (Welch, West Virginia) would be the major impediments.

If you could clear off the stations that would have mutual interference with a Class C WKRQ, (by moving them to different frequencies or downgrading them to a lower class) I would think you could move WKRQ across the river and make it a Class C. The number of moves that would be necessary in this crowded part of the country would be staggering; there is no way such a move would make economic sense. (It likely is not even possible due to lack of enough alternative frequencies to get everyone moved.)