Doesn't it just bother you when....

[another_guy]

...you get a spot from an agency and the production on it is HORRIBLE! I just recieved this spot that sounds like someones mother put it together. The edits are horrible, the persons read is even worse and the music sounds like it was taken from a tape recorder. It gets under my skin because I feel the listeners will think the spot was produced here. Sometimes I feel like putting a tag before the spot that says, "this spot was not produced by me" haha. Just wanted to vent a little.

 

[xdjproductions]

> ...you get a spot from an agency and the production on it is
> HORRIBLE! I just recieved this spot that sounds like
> someones mother put it together. The edits are horrible,
> the persons read is even worse and the music sounds like it
> was taken from a tape recorder. It gets under my skin
> because I feel the listeners will think the spot was
> produced here. Sometimes I feel like putting a tag before
> the spot that says, "this spot was not produced by me" haha.
> Just wanted to vent a little.
>
Who is the poor client with the bad spot?

 

[upndownthedial]

> ...you get a spot from an agency and the production on it is
> HORRIBLE! I just recieved this spot that sounds like
> someones mother put it together. The edits are horrible,
> the persons read is even worse and the music sounds like it
> was taken from a tape recorder. It gets under my skin
> because I feel the listeners will think the spot was
> produced here. Sometimes I feel like putting a tag before
> the spot that says, "this spot was not produced by me" haha.
> Just wanted to vent a little.
>
Yes, it does. And there have been times when I've gone to the people involved and said, "This is not up to our standards." Do it tactfully, and there's a chance you can produce it yourself. As a matter of fact, I did that just last month. But, I'm always amazed that somewhere someone is getting PAID to do that kind of garbage. At one time I would also send demos to the agency, but usually it's a shop that doesn't have a big broadcast dept. They just do it as a favor to the client. And they usually don't hold on to the account long, either.

 

[denmac]

> > ...you get a spot from an agency and the production on it
> is
> > HORRIBLE! I just recieved this spot that sounds like
> > someones mother put it together. The edits are horrible,
> > the persons read is even worse and the music sounds like
> it
> > was taken from a tape recorder. It gets under my skin
> > because I feel the listeners will think the spot was
> > produced here. Sometimes I feel like putting a tag before
>
> > the spot that says, "this spot was not produced by me"
> haha.
> > Just wanted to vent a little.
> >
> Yes, it does. And there have been times when I've gone to
> the people involved and said, "This is not up to our
> standards." Do it tactfully, and there's a chance you can
> produce it yourself. As a matter of fact, I did that just
> last month. But, I'm always amazed that somewhere someone
> is getting PAID to do that kind of garbage. At one time I
> would also send demos to the agency, but usually it's a shop
> that doesn't have a big broadcast dept. They just do it as
> a favor to the client. And they usually don't hold on to
> the account long, either.

I can't believe some of the crap that people pay for to get on the air...yet we're expected to create and distribute our very best for FREE.

 

[another_guy]

> Who is the poor client with the bad spot?
>


I'd rather not say, so not to offend anyone or tick off the client.

 

[bigwoody]

> I can't believe some of the crap that people pay for to get
> on the air...yet we're expected to create and distribute our
> very best for FREE.


If you're at a radio station, and the spot airs on a station(s) in the cluster, you are being paid. You draw a salary for doing production.

If the spot you produced/voiced/wrote goes out of house to a competing station, then you SHOULD get a talent fee, based on the fee structure for your cluster.

In our cluster there's fees for voicing, producing, writing, tags, revisions, etc. If one person writes/voices/produces the spot, and it goes out of house, that's 3 fees for the person.

And we're not a large market, we're #84.

If no fee, then I wouldn't let my work out of house. I'd tell the GM that too. Nothing is free.


As far as quality, I agree that if it's substandard, based on your Prod Dept's protocol's, send it back or reproduce it.

I've had spots, in a Top 25 market, come in on cassette. I just laughed at the Rep. I then calmed down and explained that the spot would, under no circumstances, be pulled off a cassette. Thankfully as Prod Director I had full backing from the PD's and GM. Can you imagine the tape hiss one would hear once it hit the processing?

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bigwoody on 03/03/06 08:36 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[denmac]

> > I can't believe some of the crap that people pay for to
> get
> > on the air...yet we're expected to create and distribute
> our
> > very best for FREE.
>
>
> If you're at a radio station, and the spot airs on a
> station(s) in the cluster, you are being paid. You draw a
> salary for doing production.
>
> If the spot you produced/voiced/wrote goes out of house to a
> competing station, then you SHOULD get a talent fee, based
> on the fee structure for your cluster.
>
> In our cluster there's fees for voicing, producing, writing,
> tags, revisions, etc. If one person writes/voices/produces
> the spot, and it goes out of house, that's 3 fees for the
> person.
>
> And we're not a large market, we're #84.
>
> If no fee, then I wouldn't let my work out of house. I'd
> tell the GM that too. Nothing is free.
>
>
> As far as quality, I agree that if it's substandard, based
> on your Prod Dept's protocol's, send it back or reproduce
> it.
>
> I've had spots, in a Top 25 market, come in on cassette. I
> just laughed at the Rep. I then calmed down and explained
> that the spot would, under no circumstances, be pulled off a
> cassette. Thankfully as Prod Director I had full backing
> from the PD's and GM. Can you imagine the tape hiss one
> would hear once it hit the processing?
>

We, too, charge talent fees. Most of the time, we collect on 'em. However, when a client requests a CD copy of their ad, we put a fees-for-redistribution
clause on the CD, both on the label and in the audio. Yet no matter how much our account reps try to educate our advertisers, the advertisers still think radio creative should be free for use all over the market and beyond.

As far as cassettes go, that's been supplanted with 40kbps mp3 files...even from national advertisers. And, yes, we call the agency and request higher-quality files.

 

[another_guy]

> > > I can't believe some of the crap that people pay for to
> > get
> > > on the air...yet we're expected to create and distribute
>
> > our
> > > very best for FREE.
> >
> >
> > If you're at a radio station, and the spot airs on a
> > station(s) in the cluster, you are being paid. You draw a
> > salary for doing production.
> >
> > If the spot you produced/voiced/wrote goes out of house to
> a
> > competing station, then you SHOULD get a talent fee, based
>
> > on the fee structure for your cluster.
> >
> > In our cluster there's fees for voicing, producing,
> writing,
> > tags, revisions, etc. If one person writes/voices/produces
>
> > the spot, and it goes out of house, that's 3 fees for the
> > person.
> >
> > And we're not a large market, we're #84.
> >
> > If no fee, then I wouldn't let my work out of house. I'd
> > tell the GM that too. Nothing is free.
> >
> >
> > As far as quality, I agree that if it's substandard, based
>
> > on your Prod Dept's protocol's, send it back or reproduce
> > it.
> >
> > I've had spots, in a Top 25 market, come in on cassette. I
>
> > just laughed at the Rep. I then calmed down and explained
> > that the spot would, under no circumstances, be pulled off
> a
> > cassette. Thankfully as Prod Director I had full backing
> > from the PD's and GM. Can you imagine the tape hiss one
> > would hear once it hit the processing?
> >
>
> We, too, charge talent fees. Most of the time, we collect
> on 'em. However, when a client requests a CD copy of their
> ad, we put a fees-for-redistribution
> clause on the CD, both on the label and in the audio. Yet
> no matter how much our account reps try to educate our
> advertisers, the advertisers still think radio creative
> should be free for use all over the market and beyond.
>
> As far as cassettes go, that's been supplanted with 40kbps
> mp3 files...even from national advertisers. And, yes, we
> call the agency and request higher-quality files.
>



wow...you guys get paid for that....wow haha. I'm lucky I get paid at all some weeks, but I guess that radio. I work just outside a top 10 market and I do a lot of production for clients that run heavily in that market and use the ads I recorded. because we are a smaller market we give them the spots for free in hopes they will spend money with us. I don't get anything extra for it. Same goes with tellin agencies or clients their spots aren't good enough. the way the station managers see it, we are getting money so don't complain to anyone!

 

[bigwoody]

> wow...you guys get paid for that....wow haha. I'm lucky I
> get paid at all some weeks, but I guess that radio. I work
> just outside a top 10 market and I do a lot of production
> for clients that run heavily in that market and use the ads
> I recorded. because we are a smaller market we give them
> the spots for free in hopes they will spend money with us.
> I don't get anything extra for it. Same goes with tellin
> agencies or clients their spots aren't good enough. the way
> the station managers see it, we are getting money so don't
> complain to anyone!
>

It's your managers small market mentality that ruins it for others, even in your own market.

My present market manager, who's now in his biggest market in his career, has had to be "re-educated" at times. It's difficult for those of us who know better.

 

[Kahn_II]

It ALSO bothers me when.....

Another thing that frosts my onions, in addition to poorly produced spots, are when the client INSISTS on writing the commercial, too. They jam sooo much information in and then get mad when I edit for content; usually I just reword it while preserving the message. In addition to doing production I am also a copywriter, but I don't like editing client's scripts. Nine times out of ten what I take out is the 'wrong' info. I also dislike when you try to write a creative spot and they trash it for thier laundry lists and cliches.

I guess thier 'friendly, knowledgeable staff' knows better.
<P ID="signature">______________
-DK
www.DKVoice.com</P>

 

[bigwoody]

Re: It ALSO bothers me when.....

> Another thing that frosts my onions, in addition to poorly
> produced spots, are when the client INSISTS on writing the
> commercial, too. They jam sooo much information in and then
> get mad when I edit for content; usually I just reword it
> while preserving the message. In addition to doing
> production I am also a copywriter, but I don't like editing
> client's scripts. Nine times out of ten what I take out is
> the 'wrong' info. I also dislike when you try to write a
> creative spot and they trash it for thier laundry lists and
> cliches.
>
> I guess thier 'friendly, knowledgeable staff' knows better.
>


I've reminded our sales staff, over and over, to encourage clients to NOT include phone numbers and/or addresses. It's been proven, very often, that phone numbers and addresses, no matter how many times they're mentioned, do not work. Websites are ok, if mentioned at the end.

Locations, ie, landmarks, to describe where located is ok. People can visualize almost immediately where the location is.

Use the time one has for actual "creative" instead of phone numbers, etc.

I also tell our reps that the client ISN'T always right. Clients, most of them, do not know what they're doing. It's up to us, the "professionals", to steer them in the right direction, explain marketing techniques that work, and in the end get repeat business from the client.

 

[another_guy]

Re: It ALSO bothers me when.....

> Another thing that frosts my onions, in addition to poorly
> produced spots, are when the client INSISTS on writing the
> commercial, too. They jam sooo much information in and then
> get mad when I edit for content; usually I just reword it
> while preserving the message. In addition to doing
> production I am also a copywriter, but I don't like editing
> client's scripts. Nine times out of ten what I take out is
> the 'wrong' info. I also dislike when you try to write a
> creative spot and they trash it for thier laundry lists and
> cliches.
>
> I guess thier 'friendly, knowledgeable staff' knows better.
>


The problem is, clients want to talk about the unimportant things about their buisness...

"come to my resturaunt, we sell steak and have fresh salads"

OH MAN, THEY HAVE STEAK, LETS GO THERE!!!!!!!

Although part of being a production director is also a little bit like doing sales, in that you need to sell your ability, but I think it's the AE's job mostly to "sell" the radio station to the client. To often they get the sale, then wipe their hands of it after that. They really don't care if the spot works or not...they already have their money. The good AE's realize how important it is to keep a client......

 

[robgrayson]

I remember, back in the day, getting a spot for an appliance place which specialized in "quality" home stereo systems. The dub itself was on a recycled piece of tape with 21 bad splices in the course of the 60 second spot. Or how about the studios that saved money by using 1/2 mil tape, which seemed to stretch just by looking at it.

 

[xdjproductions]

Re: It ALSO bothers me when.....

What's even worse is when a person, who is supposed to know better writes the copy and it's still full of all that fluff. Many times I have sent copy back to be edited and I hear, "I can't cut anything...it all has to be in there" So, I cut it and guess what? When they hear how fast it has to be read, suddenly the client can find a few places to cut some copy. Which is good for me and bad for them because they get to pay for another read.

I know there were complaints about some national spots, but for the most part, if clients would take a lesson from the national ads....they would realize they are trying to say too much. I remember hearing a sales manager at a station I worked for telling sales people ways to handle the old...."Advertising doesn't work....or people know about my business I've been here for 20 years". He told them to talk about the fact that everyone knows about Pepsi, yet they advertise all the time.....everyone knows about Wal Mart...you get the idea. But this same manager would allow the worst copy to go on air, just to get the sale. It's really a simple idea. Make sure you take care of each client the right way....not just the way they think they want to be taken care of...and instead of having to work on new business 90% of the time, you can take care of renewing and growing the good clients you have. The ones that now see they need you to get their message to the people. Spending less time having to struggle with new clients over and over again.

Our business has created the monster we now do not know how to handle. There are too many outlets with people in charge that care nothing about the production value of the station. I know there are some exceptions, and they are very successful from a ratings and revenue standpoint. But there are many that struggle having to constantly bring in NEW business because they do not deliver on what they sold the client to start with.

One final thought.....I'll use a car dealership for an example here. I always thought it would be a good idea to tell a dealer who says, "Radio doesn't work for my business"....OK fine...let's test it. We'll produce an ad that we write letting listeners know that in 2 weeks from today we will give away a brand new 2007 Loaded Chevy Tahoe. There WILL be a winner and all you have to do is sign up and be there at 3pm. No catch...no test drive...just sign up and you have a chance to win.

If he says no....then he must think radio would work or no one would hear it and show up. If he says "Yes" the lot will be full of people wanting to win a $40,000 prize showing him it does indeed work...IF YOU MAKE A GREAT OFFER! No one cares about your phone number or how long you've been in business. They care about if you have the vehicle they want at the price they can afford. That's all you need to tell them!

 

[denmac]

Re: It ALSO bothers me when.....

> Another thing that frosts my onions, in addition to poorly
> produced spots, are when the client INSISTS on writing the
> commercial, too. They jam sooo much information in and then
> get mad when I edit for content; usually I just reword it
> while preserving the message. In addition to doing
> production I am also a copywriter, but I don't like editing
> client's scripts. Nine times out of ten what I take out is
> the 'wrong' info. I also dislike when you try to write a
> creative spot and they trash it for thier laundry lists and
> cliches.
>
> I guess thier 'friendly, knowledgeable staff' knows better.
>
These are the same clients who cancel their schedules because "radio isn't working" for them.

 

[jefflaurence]

Re: It ALSO bothers me when.....

The same car dealer that says that radio does not work uses his bottom line as the ultimate "litmus" test for the success of a radio station's remote.

"Hey..we only sold two cars all weekend..your station sucks!"

I drive by that dealer and even though the midday girl who is doing the remote is on a cell phone from her car and out of sight..the lot is FULL to the edges with people..the sales holes are over gabbing it up with the hooter's girls and stuffing chicken wings and station tee-shirts into thier sportjackets to give to thier kids..They sold two cars because the dealer's staff was too busy during the remote to actually take care of any customers..NOT because the station didn't bring the "ups" on to the lot.

The previous post gives a good comeback for this type of client..

"If your SO sure that radio doesn't work, and nobody is listening, let's give away a few twenty dollar bills to the next..oh 200 people or so..Since there's "nobody listening" you won't lose a dollar..."

 

[jefflaurence]

Oh man..let's start a thread about technically inept stations and the equipment you had to use "in the day" remember Magnecorders?