Domestic shortwave

[KTN Corp]

Is it true that the FCC doesn't allow shortwave broadcasting to domestic audiences? If it is true, should the restriction be lifted?

 

[w9wi]

Yes, and yes.

**I think** the prohibition stems from the 1930s when shortwave first got started. It more or less coincides with WLW being allowed to operate at 500kw and other major stations filing for a similar power increase. Network affiliations were important to radio in a way they'd be important to TV in another 25 years. Smaller local affiliates were afraid they'd lose their affiliations to a handful of monster stations.

Domestic shortwave would make the problem worse, making it easier for a handful of stations to cover the entire country.

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Of course, today local stations have nothing to worry about, in terms of competition from shortwave. Receivers are rare (in relative terms) and the poor quality (compared to universally available local FM) leaves nobody really interested. (again in relative terms)

I would guess nobody has asked for this change because they've figured out how to get around the ban, they don't *need* it relaxed. Put your transmitter in Tennessee, then use the 60 or 90-meter bands to broadcast to a target audience in Ontario. Yep, it's "foreign", you can't help it if you have intense spillover coverage in the entire eastern half of the U.S....

 

[Darth_vader]

That was how VOA was when they were still operating out of California in the 1990s. Pointed at Canada and Mexico, but never mind the fact that practically the entire western United States could clearly hear it at mid-day without even having to pull the telescoping antenna up!

Despite little technicalities like Smith-Mundt, it was practically a "domestic" service (metaphorically speaking) as such things went.

 

[KeithE4]

I would guess nobody has asked for this change because they've figured out how to get around the ban, they don't *need* it relaxed. Put your transmitter in Tennessee, then use the 60 or 90-meter bands to broadcast to a target audience in Ontario. Yep, it's "foreign", you can't help it if you have intense spillover coverage in the entire eastern half of the U.S....

60 and 90 meters are not broadcast bands in the US. Of course, neither are the fixed-service frequencies adjacent to the SW broadcast bands that the FCC allows the religious broadcasters to use. The FCC no longer licenses fixed-service stations on HF, so as far as I know, anything goes there as long as fixed-service stations in other countries are not interfered with.

 

[w9wi]

I would guess nobody has asked for this change because they've figured out how to get around the ban, they don't *need* it relaxed. Put your transmitter in Tennessee, then use the 60 or 90-meter bands to broadcast to a target audience in Ontario. Yep, it's "foreign", you can't help it if you have intense spillover coverage in the entire eastern half of the U.S....

60 and 90 meters are not broadcast bands in the US. Of course, neither are the fixed-service frequencies adjacent to the SW broadcast bands that the FCC allows the religious broadcasters to use. The FCC no longer licenses fixed-service stations on HF, so as far as I know, anything goes there as long as fixed-service stations in other countries are not interfered with.

True, but that doesn't mean U.S. shortwave stations haven't used them.

 

[nd2023]

The number of shortwave radios in active use in the US is orders of magnitude larger than the number of HD radios in active use. Perhaps empty portions of the shortwave bands could have been used for AM and FM HD instead of destroying the AM band.

 

[Darth_vader]

Surprisingly enough, that'll never actually happen under the FCC's watch. Don't hold your breath. Besides, there's already a digital audio system being used on shortwave: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale

"Unlike most other DAB systems, DRM uses in-band on-channel (IBOC) technology and can operate in a hybrid mode called Single Channel Simulcast, simulcasting both analog signal and digital signal.

*snip*

"The United States Federal Communications Commission states in Part 73, section 758 that: 'For digitally modulated emissions, the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) standard shall be employed.' Part 73, section 758 is for HF broadcasting only."

Yeah, apparently the FCC actually brought themselves to select a transmission format that's an open, international standard. For real. No, I couldn't believe it either. What a sad day that must have been in D.C., the day they actually decided to mandate a data transmission format the rest of the world uses. That noted, I'm looking forward to the day they fire up Delano again and start pumping out VOA in D.R.M. format. At least that'll be an excuse to make the statements I had made in this thread a reality. Hey, it might happen.* Sure be an improvement over the tinny, scratchy <5 kHz signal we used to somehow get by with in the 90s!

[size=8pt]__________________________________________
* And monkeys might fly out of my butt...

 

[KTN Corp]

**I think** the prohibition stems from the 1930s when shortwave first got started. It more or less coincides with WLW being allowed to operate at 500kw and other major stations filing for a similar power increase. Network affiliations were important to radio in a way they'd be important to TV in another 25 years. Smaller local affiliates were afraid they'd lose their affiliations to a handful of monster stations.

Domestic shortwave would make the problem worse, making it easier for a handful of stations to cover the entire country.

I would think that local MW stations would become independents while SW stations are exclusively network programming, which is pretty much what is in demand in the broadcast industry today.

Of course, today local stations have nothing to worry about, in terms of competition from shortwave. Receivers are rare (in relative terms) and the poor quality (compared to universally available local FM) leaves nobody really interested. (again in relative terms)

Why are the receivers still poor quality with the advances in technology?

Surprisingly enough, that'll never actually happen under the FCC's watch. Don't hold your breath. Besides, there's already a digital audio system being used on shortwave: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale

I expect it to flop like HD radio. Nobody's "really interested."

 

[LibertyNT]

I expect it to flop like HD radio. Nobody's "really interested."

But, Unlike HD radio, DRM actually works. And it works well.
DRM radios can also be built by anyone, its open source.

DRM has far more going for it than HD, but that being said, there's not a lot of interest in it.

 

[KTN Corp]

But, Unlike HD radio, DRM actually works. And it works well.
DRM radios can also be built by anyone, its open source.

Hopefully it doesn't require so many digital decoding/encoding chips that it doesn't make the radio large or heavy. We would still end up with AM if that was the case.

 

[LibertyNT]

Hopefully it doesn't require so many digital decoding/encoding chips that it doesn't make the radio large or heavy. We would still end up with AM if that was the case.

I want to say DRM is computer based (at least for broadcasting I know it uses a computer, real CPU intensive)

as for the radios http://www.drm.org/products

 

[w9wi]

**I think** the prohibition stems from the 1930s when shortwave first got started. It more or less coincides with WLW being allowed to operate at 500kw and other major stations filing for a similar power increase. Network affiliations were important to radio in a way they'd be important to TV in another 25 years. Smaller local affiliates were afraid they'd lose their affiliations to a handful of monster stations.

Domestic shortwave would make the problem worse, making it easier for a handful of stations to cover the entire country.

I would think that local MW stations would become independents while SW stations are exclusively network programming, which is pretty much what is in demand in the broadcast industry today.

That's exactly what would have happened in the 1930s -- but since the most popular programming was on the networks, quite a few local stations would have gone bust.

Of course, today local stations have nothing to worry about, in terms of competition from shortwave. Receivers are rare (in relative terms) and the poor quality (compared to universally available local FM) leaves nobody really interested. (again in relative terms)

Why are the receivers still poor quality with the advances in technology?
[/quote]

Sorry, I meant the poor quality of the shortwave audio, resulting from propagation variations. The radios (and transmitters) are fine, but the ionosphere inserts distortion between the two.

 

[RadioFan2J3]

That noted, I'm looking forward to the day they fire up Delano again and start pumping out VOA in D.R.M. format. At least that'll be an excuse to make the statements I had made in this thread a reality. Hey, it might happen.* Sure be an improvement over the tinny, scratchy <5 kHz signal we used to somehow get by with in the 90s!

[size=8pt]__________________________________________
* And monkeys might fly out of my butt...

The two ISB transmitters and the three Collins 821s, AM, are the only transmitters left at Delano. None have operated in years, but that doesn't mean it would be impossible to get the back on the.

Only takes money, money and more money.

 

[davideduardo]

I would think that local MW stations would become independents while SW stations are exclusively network programming, which is pretty much what is in demand in the broadcast industry today.

While syndicated talk shows are widely employed by radio stations, network radio is not very much used today. Although many shows, with a good example being Ryan Seacrest, are in dozens of markets, the program is not networked; it is delivered as work parts which each station assembles with its own music, promos, ads, weather, contests, etc.

Shortwave would have the disadvantage of delivering the East Coast's mid-day show in the West Coast's morning drive.

 

[1L6E6VHF]

I'm surprised that nobody here has pointed out the biggest barrier to domestic shortwave: It is against international regulations, and has been for decades.

This is because it was obvious, even 80 years ago, that a country could keep international broadcasters out of their subjects' ears simply by building domestic stations on the same frequency, other countries would follow suit, and every channel in the shortwave broadcast bands would sound like what 1490 AM at night sounds like in the US - rendering shortwave useless.

Some countries did get special dispensation for domestic shortwave stations. In the early 1950s, amateurs lost 14350-14450 in the 20m band so the Soviet Union could use it for domestic shortwave. Later on, Australia was able to use specific channels on the international bands for daytime broadcasts to the "Outback" (night transmitters were done on the "tropical" bands, which actually have been domestic shortwave, and shortish mediumwave, all along).

Other SW broadcasters have bent the rules with legal fictions. 41m broadcasting from Eastern Europe to the USA that was supposedly directed to Anglophones in Scandinavia after midnight, "just happened" to carry into the shacks of amateurs in North America trying to use 40m in the evening. USA shortwave stations "targeting" Europe or Africa from cities deep in the Southern US, where the highly populated Great Lakes and Eastern Seaboard regions happen to be in the major lobe at the distance of a single F layer hop.