Don Cherry's Days Numbered?

[landtuna]

I don't know how often you attend NHL games in your area, but I go about once a month. My experience is as I describe it, more like a KISS concert with hard rock, lights, and pyro, than a sports event. It gets pretty loud. And the fans are pretty young. There are meet & greets before the game, heavy promotions with contests and give-aways, and live music between periods. This seems to be what the NHL is aiming for. You may not like it, but that's the direction they're going in.

I have attended exactly two NHL games in the years the Coyotes have been in their new, west side, arena. And that tells another failing both of hockey in general and the Phoenix franchise specifically.

When the Coyotes came to town there was a big discussion about where their new arena would be built. The "well-heeled" people most likely to attend sporting events live primarily on the East and Southeast parts of the metro area so the first choice was on the near east side between two major freeways - an excellent choice. But alas, developers and politicos wanted a new shopping center in that location instead so the arena was built adjacent to the Cardinals football stadium on the far west side. But there is a major difference between NFL and NHL games. Virtually all NFL home games are on Sunday (no commute traffic) and in the afternoon to boot. A substantial number of NHL home games are on weekday evenings (right in the middle of commute traffic and 30-40 miles give or take from the fan base). If I were to leave my office right at 5PM I would make it to the arena about 15-20 minutes before game time (providing no crashes). The games begin at 7:15 and end roughly 2 1/2 to 3 hours later and it is midnight before you get home....and have to go to work the next day.

You can see the issues. Tack on $50 for a reasonable seat, I-don't-know for parking, another $25/person for refreshments and you have a $100+ evening - a tough draw in financially modest Phoenix.

Management has been another issue as the team has frequently changed hands and is now run by the league. Even a part-owner/coach like Wayne Gretzky couldn't make it work. Of course, he was rarely in town and the team rarely won in those days. In short, they blew an excellent chance to make a good first impression. They did attract the construction of four very nice ice rinks in addition to the couple of old ones we already had and that attracted lots of kids including two of mine.

We used to have a WHA team here that played in the fairgrounds arena (just north of downtown) and would draw an average of 3,500-4,000 for non-playoff games. During school holidays and playoffs 9,000+ would show up (capacity). Tickets were $3-$6 and parking was $1. The place was packed with youngsters and their siblings. That team contributed far more to hockey in the desert than the Coyotes ever will.

There are a couple of teams in the league in the same general condition as ours is and those need to be strengthened financially and placed in cities that will support them to the extent required. Until that is done all the glitz and hoopla at the arena isn't going to draw fans. They will simply go to the arena football game instead.

 

[landtuna]

Here's hockey the way it should be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6doRKqexqmU

I am very fortunate to have been exposed to hockey when players like Mikita, Hull, Orr, The Gag Line, Lanny MacDonald etc. (including my distant cousin Ron Ellis of Toronto) were still playing. The game has changed....and not for the better.

 

[TheBigA]

I have attended exactly two NHL games in the years the Coyotes have been in their new, west side, arena.

In my view, a hockey team in Phoenix is like a baseball team in Montreal.

 

[RADIO TRUTH]

Some of this has already been mentioned above but, I'll tell you what's wrong with the NHL and amateur hockey today. I played, officiated and covered the NHL for radio stations.
1-Almost no hitting in today's NHL versus the 6 team league...The rules today are interpreted differently and there are more of them. There is a major problem with concussions because the players are bigger and weigh more than back then. A way to solve the problem would be to put limitations on the size of elbow pads and shoulder pads. Before helmets were mandatory in junior hockey, everybody kept their sticks down.
2-A perception of nonhockey fans that fighting in hockey makes hockey violent. Fighting is just a waste of time that slows the game down. When I officiated, I just let the fighters punch the crap out of each other and when they ran out of gas, I escorted them to the penalty box. The serious injuries come from sticks, skate blades and pucks.
3-The NHL is a league with no dominant players who score way above the rest of the league like Richard, Howe, Hull, Mikita, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux and others did in the past. The NHL would get more publicity if there were any true superstars and especially if they were from North America.
4-All the new NHL buildings suck. They are too big and you sit too far away. I was in all of the original six buildings including the Madison Square Garden that closed in 1968. The current Madison Square Garden has the worst sight lines of any NHL building ever. The old garden was exactly like the Boston Garden. You could sit close just like Chicago Stadium, the Detroit Olympia, the Montreal Forum and Mapleleaf Gardens. They all had their own charm. All of the new buildings are sterile. I also don't like the loud rock music played at today's NHL games.
5-Talent dilution-You have 30 mediocre teams. I liked it better with 6 teams that all had good players. Part of the reason for this is hockey is too expensive to play today versus the dollar. When I started playing hockey, equipment and ice time were affordable. Dallas, Texas, has 30 ice rinks and 7000 amateur hockey games per season but, the only kids who play are spoiled rich kids who are doing it as a novelty. We played hockey to get a college scholarship to play hockey and I know plenty of my friends who did.
6-Inferior announcers-A guy like Mike Emrick might be good for today but, I grew up with Foster Hewitt, Danny Gallivan, Lloyd Pettit, Fred Cusick and others. All of the explayers who are doing analysis are not literate enough to be effective.
7-Somebody above mentioned goon hockey and the early 70s Bruins and 74-75 Flyers. In the case of the Bruins, they had a lot of talented players such as Orr, Esposito, McKenzie, Stanfield, Cheevers, Cashman, etc. They were tough but, they were talented. The Flyers that won two cups in 73-74 and 74-75 did it when the WHA diluted the talent in the NHL. If there had been no WHA, the goonery of those Flyer teams wouldn't have worked. They also had Bernie Parent who stopped everything so they didn't need to be that talented. Bobby Clarke was one of the dirtiest players ever. The early 80s Islanders teams were also very tough but, had a ton of talent and four future hall of famers.

I don't know if I covered everything. I will respond to any responses. I've been involved with hockey and the NHL since the late 50s.

 

[landtuna]

Dallas, Texas, has 30 ice rinks and 7000 amateur hockey games per season but, the only kids who play are spoiled rich kids who are doing it as a novelty.

I don't know about Dallas but youth hockey here in Phoenix requires a substantial financial and time commitment from parents. As I stated before hockey is expensive. So is dressage. If you can't afford hockey then soccer is a good, and more popular, alternative.

6-Inferior announcers-A guy like Mike Emrick might be good for today but, I grew up with Foster Hewitt, Danny Gallivan, Lloyd Pettit, Fred Cusick and others.

I realize it is personal preference but I could not stand to listen to Foster Hewitt. How he is rated as the all-time king of hockey announcers is way beyond me. My favorite would probably be Dan Kelly of KMOX but Emrick is perhaps the most descriptive, if not the most colorful, I've ever heard.

In the case of the Bruins, they had a lot of talented players such as Orr, Esposito, McKenzie, Stanfield, Cheevers, Cashman, etc. They were tough but, they were talented.

Undoubtedly the Bruins of the early 70's were among the most talented teams. But so was their opposition. Even a team like the Blues had a bunch of very capable and entertaining players then. I do disagree with your choice of Phil Esposito as one of the more talented though. His style was to park himself in the crease and obscure the goalie's vision while deflecting shots into the net. More size (and the ability to absorb punishment) than talent there.

Bobby Clarke was one of the dirtiest players ever.

I would say there were many who exceeded Clarke in this category, including players like Gordie Howe, but no one could question Clarke's heart. He gave 100% every turn on the ice and he did it being the first player with diabetes (to my knowledge).

I don't know if I covered everything.

I would only add that hockey used to be full of "characters" who brought more than skills to the game. They were entertainers in their own right. Guys like Pete Stemkowski, Keith Magnuson, Bob "Battleship" Kelly and Derek Sanderson. Semi-skilled players to be sure but definitely entertaining. Nobody like them playing today.

 

[TheBigA]

I would only add that hockey used to be full of "characters" who brought more than skills to the game.

I hear that said about a lot of things. The music industry, broadcasting industry, and many other areas "used to be full of characters." Baseball, football, even golf had its share of characters. Today, the focus is on skill.

The bad thing about being a character is you stand out. That's one of the reasons why Don Cherry may be on the outs. He's a character. He stands out. Some people love him. Some people don't. Hockey is a team sport. When you have a character on the team, it can be fun, but distracts from the team. And as you said, a character isn't always the most skilled player, and a team can't always afford a space on the roster with such a player. Everyone has to pull their weight. I know a current player who was a character and had built a fan base in his first few years because of his antics, but his average playing almost cost him his job. He got a trainer, beefed up his game a bit, and came back as a better player. But his antics were gone. That's the choice for these guys. I think there ARE characters today, but they've pulled back a bit on their personality in order to put focus on playing.

 

[landtuna]

I think there ARE characters today, but they've pulled back a bit on their personality in order to put focus on playing.

That's a good point with competition being so tough for jobs, especially with the added population of highly skilled European players, perhaps those of us outside major hockey markets don't see the off-ice "characters" as much as we used to. And, come to think of it, I don't recall hearing about the locker room stunts near as much as I used to either.

In the music industry though, "antics" still seem to be the norm. Clown costumes and crazy hair and the occasional stint in rehab seem to be all that's required to get a contract and keep it. It certainly isn't talent.

Broadcasting, especially radio, seems to be relatively unchanged. The morning shows are still the "zany" daypart populated by certifiable wackos - especially those stations trying to appeal to the twenty-somethings.

 

[blackgold]

TSN and CTV will take over the NHL contract in 2 seasons time. TSN and TSN 2, together with RDS, RDS 2 and RDS Info will have a lock on the NHL contract starting in 2014. They might air a few dozen games on CTV and SRC Radio-Canada, but hockey's a cable sport. And of course, if you talk hockey in the Southern USA, all they'll give ya is a shrug: they're into high school and college sports there.

 

[landtuna]

... but hockey's a cable sport. And of course, if you talk hockey in the Southern USA, all they'll give ya is a shrug: they're into high school and college sports there.

Well, I live in the "Southern USA" although not in the Deep South and can tell you that hockey here in the desert is alive and well. We have four ice rinks now, each with two playing surfaces and they are busy from very early in the morning (pre-dawn) to midnight 7 days per week. It isn't all hockey of course as there are figure skaters and open skating but the majority of ice time is hockey and there are thousands of kids (and older adults) playing.

The numbers are nowhere near the other youth sports of course and the primary reasons are the ethnic makeup of the Valley (large Hispanic population whose game is soccer) and the cost of the sport. Equipment and ice time are expensive and when more than one child is playing it gets very expensive for a family of modest means. High schools here do not have formal hockey programs although half-a-dozen or so do give some assistance to independent club teams.

As for hockey on cable.....not necessarily. In hockey-savvy markets OTA games get good numbers although most OTA stations don't seem interested in live sports programming of any kind. The Suns used to be carried by an indie station here but they've been on pay TV for some time now. The cost of licensing is most probably to blame and not a sport's popularity. The same is now true of the Sun Devils. The Cardinals are the only remaining sports team found on OTA TV and that is undoubtedly the result of the network contract.

 

[FreddyE1977]

When I went to my first hockey game, it was the Pittsburgh Penguins hosting the L.A. Kings, and I walked
up to the arena box office and paid $3.50 for my ticket.

Today you have to surf Stub Hub for hours and hours, and you are lucky to get out of there for less
than eighty bucks apiece.

That, in a nutshell, is what's wrong with the NHL these days.

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

When I went to my first hockey game, it was the Pittsburgh Penguins hosting the L.A. Kings, and I walked
up to the arena box office and paid $3.50 for my ticket.

That must have been when the Penguins, the L.A. Kings, and the other "Next Six" teams began play in the 1967/68 season!

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

There may be another issue at work here.

If my memory serves me correct, Don Cherry has either just turned or is about to turn 80 years of age.

Thus, "Grapes" may be thinking of retirement.

 

[landtuna]

When I went to my first hockey game, it was the Pittsburgh Penguins hosting the L.A. Kings, and I walked
up to the arena box office and paid $3.50 for my ticket.

Today you have to surf Stub Hub for hours and hours, and you are lucky to get out of there for less
than eighty bucks apiece.

That, in a nutshell, is what's wrong with the NHL these days.

Ticket inflation is affecting all sports, not just hockey.