Marketing??? As broadcasters, you have to wonder what it must be like for AEs to go out and try to sell advertisers on running commercials on their station, when the companies won't spend a penny on advertising or marketing the stations. Advertisers are not stupid...some have asked their AEs about this.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
DON'T DO IT KKSF !!
- Thread starter airpab
- Start date
Lkeller said:
This could happen, in a sense. Broadcast Architecture, the most influential consultants of the Smooth Jazz format, have a ready-made syndicated version of the format (the Smooth Jazz Network) that includes Dave Koz and other SJ artists as hosts. Sounds like the station's already on autopilot so it would probably be an upgrade.
tripton99 said:
Of course, it all has to do with being in, say, the top 5 stations selling to a particular demographic. So, if KKSF is going after, say, women, 25 to 49, they're competing against KOIT, KBLX, etc. That can be a tall order.
I agree with your take on sales staffs. I've said elsewhere and maybe here that I run 3 yellow pages ads and yet nobody from any radio or TV station has called me to try to sell me time. Sure, I'm a small fry, but so were C. Crane and New Pane when they began.
There's a station in Santa Rosa (KJZY) doing exactly what KKSF should do!
They dropped the "Jazz" part of their moniker and call themselves.."Smooth 937". This has allowed them to expand their playlist to include a wider variety of Jazz, A/C and even some select Adult Standard stuff!
The result is a great sounding, easy-to-keep-on-all-day kind of sound, with less repetition, that appeals to a wider audience and provides for some competition for the bland A/C outlet in the market.
They dropped the "Jazz" part of their moniker and call themselves.."Smooth 937". This has allowed them to expand their playlist to include a wider variety of Jazz, A/C and even some select Adult Standard stuff!
The result is a great sounding, easy-to-keep-on-all-day kind of sound, with less repetition, that appeals to a wider audience and provides for some competition for the bland A/C outlet in the market.
airpab said:
Refering to most of the music KKSF plays as any kind of "jazz" is laughable in any case. Last time I checked, much of their playlist was straight "old school" R&B mixed in with a few instrumental soft instrumentals.
In the 70s and 80s, when KBLX was still playing it - they didn't give it a label (just the Quiet Storm), and KRE (on 102.9 before that) called it "fusion," which is a better label, though I'd admit is not a very descriptive label for imaging.
Nope. I believe it started out as NAC, New Adult Contemporary. It wasn't until the Kenny G type music came up in profile that the smooth jazz handle was applied. It was even derisively called yuppie elevator music by some detractors a number of years back. No jazz musicians I know consider anything by Kenny G or his ilk to be jazz. Perhaps a radio rocket scientist that is lurking and has a better memory than I can add to or correct this, but it's how I remember it.
You are correct. The term "Smooth Jazz" as a format identifier did not exist when KKSF signed on in 1987. For years, even though KKSF employed Broadcast Architecture for music research, the station resisted the BA tactic of using the term "Smooth Jazz." With a large and eclectic playlist, KKSF was a true renegade among BA clients until ratings wobbles became an issue. As they realized they needed bigger cume along with TSL, they slowly sold the station's original values out and fell into the BA clone trap...losing any semblance of "hip" they had. What you hear today is almost a 180 degree opposite from the original KKSF. The only similarities: KKSF of yesterday and today is relatively mellow and targeted 25+.
Originally KKSF was a refuge from the hits of the day. Now it's anything but...mellow oldie followed by cover version followed by mellow oldie followed by cover version followed by another oldie, etc. They've just about bored themselves out of existence. With that simplistic formula in place, Clear Channel said "Who needs a PD?" and canned Ken Jones last week. Some say the writing is on the wall for KKSF, but truth be told, it's inexpensive to run...and that may be what saves the station (if the end hasn't already been determined by CC).
KKSF will turn 22 this year, if allowed to continue. It's no record, but still a pretty impressive life span.
Originally KKSF was a refuge from the hits of the day. Now it's anything but...mellow oldie followed by cover version followed by mellow oldie followed by cover version followed by another oldie, etc. They've just about bored themselves out of existence. With that simplistic formula in place, Clear Channel said "Who needs a PD?" and canned Ken Jones last week. Some say the writing is on the wall for KKSF, but truth be told, it's inexpensive to run...and that may be what saves the station (if the end hasn't already been determined by CC).
KKSF will turn 22 this year, if allowed to continue. It's no record, but still a pretty impressive life span.
Does anybody know if KIFM/San Diego plays more instrumentals than KKSF or other smooth Jazz stations? I listened to KIFM online for a couple of hours and must have heard 80% instrumentals. When I finally did hear a vocal (Al Green-I'm so tired of being alone") it sounded good because it was the spice and not the meat of the format. Great selection of instrumentals too. I wonder if more Smooth Jazz stations sounded like that if the format would be in better shape than it is today?
DavidKaye said:
David is right - KKSF never was real "jazz" in any way. "Easy Listening" is a better label, though it will never be used because of it's connotation - elevator music, Ray Coniff, etc.
As I said, KBLX used to play mostly music in this category, though they concentrated more on African-American sounds. I used to listen to KBLX fairly often, so I naturally tried KKSF when it went on the air - and found it far more "lite" than KBLX, and very dull.
To give the original owners of KKSF credit - they did a lot of good community work - those CD "samplers" to raise money for AIDS research for example. As I remember, they also sponsored numerous concerts to raise money for good causes. I went to one - I remember Tuck and Patty were the headliners. Truly a snooze-fest for the ages.
J
jimmydigits
Guest
1069_KIFR said:
I'm sorry, but that point is gone, 106. Get used to it. It's a new era!
M
majaman78
Guest
SFStatic said:
The problem with KKSF?
Broadcast Architecture.
These clowns ruined the smooth jazz format all around the country.
Smooth Jazz is an amalgam of genres.
"real jazz"? No such thing...Jazz is interpretation.
Traditional Jazz/Classic Jazz...wonderful music, artists, and history, our true American Music & Art Form, but it translates poorly to the confines of commercial radio.
This is by no means a scientific measure, but when I was working public radio 20+ years ago and we ran fund drives, the format that always has the least amount of donors and actual dollars was Jazz, while the Classical, Blue Grass, and other formats we played/carried always had money, support, and active listeners. What does that mean? Maybe not much other than support for Jazz as many would define it wouldn't survive a lick on terrestrial radio. Not that Coltrane, Miles, Parker, Brubeck (to name a very select few) aren't awesome and aw inspiring, but that style is tough to capture in a finite medium when the music is so deep, vast, expressive, and free form.
Smooth Jazz is "pop" Jazz...meaning it is made more palatable for the masses. Still giving you some of the essence of Jazz without playing a 10-20 minute masterpiece.
For those who rail on Smooth Jazz because it is not "sophisticated" enough for them, hate to tell you, the format is not aimed at you. Just like the "purists" of Classic Rock, likely they don't spend much time listening to their local Classic Rock station play the same 700+ songs. They want the "deeper" cuts and album sides.
The reason Smooth Jazz is losing on terrestrial radio, first from a sales/business side...folks are not trained enough to sell the qualitative...they focus on the quantitative. Agencies don't know how to buy/use the format for their clients (plus it doesn't help when an agency rep is in their 20's and doesn't get the format). Also, owners want results now, and they do not have the patience to grow and nurture the format. SJ stations need at least a year or more to gain traction...in these new days of PPM's, the already quick hook of management and ownership will be that much quicker in flipping formats.
From the programming side, unlike Classic Rock, Oldies, Country, AC, and a few others, Smooth Jazz has no "feeder" format from which to attain the younger audience who grows and matures into Smooth Jazz. The aforementioned formats have Top 40, New/Alt Rock, Hot Country (in some cases) where they will get their younger demos who eventually become 25-54. Smooth Jazz, outside of cherry picking a select song here or there from some of those formats, does not have that....there is no "Top 40 Instrumental Jazz" format.
This is just my insight having jocked and programmed on some very successful SJ stations in well known markets back 10-12 years ago and up until now.
I love the format, and think it has a place, but outside of Cali...with KKSF, KSSJ, KTWV, KIFM, and a few markets on smaller fringe signals, the format appears to be relegated to Satellite or Internet.
"real jazz"? No such thing...Jazz is interpretation.
Traditional Jazz/Classic Jazz...wonderful music, artists, and history, our true American Music & Art Form, but it translates poorly to the confines of commercial radio.
This is by no means a scientific measure, but when I was working public radio 20+ years ago and we ran fund drives, the format that always has the least amount of donors and actual dollars was Jazz, while the Classical, Blue Grass, and other formats we played/carried always had money, support, and active listeners. What does that mean? Maybe not much other than support for Jazz as many would define it wouldn't survive a lick on terrestrial radio. Not that Coltrane, Miles, Parker, Brubeck (to name a very select few) aren't awesome and aw inspiring, but that style is tough to capture in a finite medium when the music is so deep, vast, expressive, and free form.
Smooth Jazz is "pop" Jazz...meaning it is made more palatable for the masses. Still giving you some of the essence of Jazz without playing a 10-20 minute masterpiece.
For those who rail on Smooth Jazz because it is not "sophisticated" enough for them, hate to tell you, the format is not aimed at you. Just like the "purists" of Classic Rock, likely they don't spend much time listening to their local Classic Rock station play the same 700+ songs. They want the "deeper" cuts and album sides.
The reason Smooth Jazz is losing on terrestrial radio, first from a sales/business side...folks are not trained enough to sell the qualitative...they focus on the quantitative. Agencies don't know how to buy/use the format for their clients (plus it doesn't help when an agency rep is in their 20's and doesn't get the format). Also, owners want results now, and they do not have the patience to grow and nurture the format. SJ stations need at least a year or more to gain traction...in these new days of PPM's, the already quick hook of management and ownership will be that much quicker in flipping formats.
From the programming side, unlike Classic Rock, Oldies, Country, AC, and a few others, Smooth Jazz has no "feeder" format from which to attain the younger audience who grows and matures into Smooth Jazz. The aforementioned formats have Top 40, New/Alt Rock, Hot Country (in some cases) where they will get their younger demos who eventually become 25-54. Smooth Jazz, outside of cherry picking a select song here or there from some of those formats, does not have that....there is no "Top 40 Instrumental Jazz" format.
This is just my insight having jocked and programmed on some very successful SJ stations in well known markets back 10-12 years ago and up until now.
I love the format, and think it has a place, but outside of Cali...with KKSF, KSSJ, KTWV, KIFM, and a few markets on smaller fringe signals, the format appears to be relegated to Satellite or Internet.
- Status