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Double hop e skip
- Thread starter nd2023
- Start date
Never have IDed one, but did get a tentative 95.1 KORQ Abilene, TX on 6/22/11 in Bothell, WA. They were playing Pitbull's "Give Me Everything"-and it was a song match, but by the time I got back it turned into 1x skip [KATC Colorado Springs, CO, 1070 mi]. KORQ [if it was IDed] would be 1582 mi [probably short 2x].
-crainbebo
-crainbebo
The following thread deals with double hop Es on the FM band...
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=189426.0
http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=189426.0
C
cd637299
Guest
Never got it, but I *thought* I did, about 2 years ago, from south FL, with a Global on ch 2 and a commercial for Hakim Optical with locations in Winnipeg (and there is CKND2 in Minnedosa MB, a Global affiliate on ch 2 which relays CKND Winnipeg). I e-mailed the folk at Global, and got a reply, but they just could not get themselves to confirm. I thought the next thing would be to write Hakim, but they must have thought I was nutty to write about it, and ignored me apparently.
Last fall/winter I got a CTV affiliate on 2 with a Pizza!Pizza! ad with locations in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area), Hamilton & Ottawa. However the only CTV on 2 in normal E range* is Wiarton which relays CKCO Kitchener.
In other words, apparently "location, location, location" means zilch in Canadian ads!
[*I did get the one in Sault Ste Marie last year. It was highly likely my Global was Bancroft ON, despite the Winnipeg locations!]
cd
Last fall/winter I got a CTV affiliate on 2 with a Pizza!Pizza! ad with locations in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area), Hamilton & Ottawa. However the only CTV on 2 in normal E range* is Wiarton which relays CKCO Kitchener.
In other words, apparently "location, location, location" means zilch in Canadian ads!
[*I did get the one in Sault Ste Marie last year. It was highly likely my Global was Bancroft ON, despite the Winnipeg locations!]
cd
I wish I could say I've had a double hop but not anything on FM and not on old analog TV that I've been able to ID anyway.
In the 70s, I used to be obsessed with TV e skip when I was in New Jersey but at the time, I didn't know it was called 'sporadic E' or 'E skip' nor did I know what caused it or any of the dynamics of it.
When I'd start to see the rolling bars on channel 2 and then see it sometimes move up to channel 6, I thought it had something to do with solar activity.
There was certainly a pattern to it as far as distance was concerned, the time of day, and which times of day brought in stations from a certain direction.
Late mornings would typically be from Florida with Channel 2 from Miami and Daytona Beach being the strongest and sometimes crystal clear like a local for seconds at a time.
There was even one instance when viewing channel 3 on my antenna that was directed at New York and nulling out the direction of local channel 3 from Philadelphia that I got channel 3 from Tampa overriding our local channel 3 for a short time.
In the mid to late afternoons, the stations would be from the midwest and then later nearer the early evenings, the upper midwest and Canada where I'd get the French speaking channels.
At the time, I never understood why I could never ID anything from any more than half way across the country and my wish at the time was to get a station from the San Francisco Bay Area because I was familiar with them having visited my brother out there. Channel 2 KTVU seemed like it would have been the most easy to identify with their unique logo of the '2' but I never could see it when I would look through all the mess of stations that appeared on channel 2.
I do remember some times where TV stations during e skip events would be very unstable and never stable for any length of time to be able to tell where they were from and I'm thinking I could have been seeing a double hop and didn't know it.
Of course, without any official ID it doesn't count.
In the 70s, I used to be obsessed with TV e skip when I was in New Jersey but at the time, I didn't know it was called 'sporadic E' or 'E skip' nor did I know what caused it or any of the dynamics of it.
When I'd start to see the rolling bars on channel 2 and then see it sometimes move up to channel 6, I thought it had something to do with solar activity.
There was certainly a pattern to it as far as distance was concerned, the time of day, and which times of day brought in stations from a certain direction.
Late mornings would typically be from Florida with Channel 2 from Miami and Daytona Beach being the strongest and sometimes crystal clear like a local for seconds at a time.
There was even one instance when viewing channel 3 on my antenna that was directed at New York and nulling out the direction of local channel 3 from Philadelphia that I got channel 3 from Tampa overriding our local channel 3 for a short time.
In the mid to late afternoons, the stations would be from the midwest and then later nearer the early evenings, the upper midwest and Canada where I'd get the French speaking channels.
At the time, I never understood why I could never ID anything from any more than half way across the country and my wish at the time was to get a station from the San Francisco Bay Area because I was familiar with them having visited my brother out there. Channel 2 KTVU seemed like it would have been the most easy to identify with their unique logo of the '2' but I never could see it when I would look through all the mess of stations that appeared on channel 2.
I do remember some times where TV stations during e skip events would be very unstable and never stable for any length of time to be able to tell where they were from and I'm thinking I could have been seeing a double hop and didn't know it.
Of course, without any official ID it doesn't count.
There's been some really good trans-Atlantic e-skip from NE USA/Canada to Ireland & England.
http://forums.wtfda.org/forumdisplay.php?24-Got-FM-DX
http://forums.wtfda.org/forumdisplay.php?24-Got-FM-DX
As a kid, I got double-hop on channel 2 -- once. KTVU/San Francisco to Pascagoula, MS. That's about 2000 miles. Oddly, it was an easy catch; it was all by itself.
Of course, on 6m ham (just below channel 2), I get multiple-hop stuff all the time. Even 5W will work in a beefy opening.
Double-hop on TV has become almost commonplace now. With almost all low-band TV gone in the US, DXers are getting paths into Latin America, double-hop. Venezuela is particularly common in places like New England.
DE
Of course, on 6m ham (just below channel 2), I get multiple-hop stuff all the time. Even 5W will work in a beefy opening.
Double-hop on TV has become almost commonplace now. With almost all low-band TV gone in the US, DXers are getting paths into Latin America, double-hop. Venezuela is particularly common in places like New England.
DE
Nick said:
*Once*.
I'm near Nashville.
I've had a number of Albuquerque openings over the years. On this particular one, the New Mexico stations faded out & were replaced by a few unstable Arizona signals. Amid those signals, I briefly heard a promo for a "Summer Cash Splash" on "Kixie 96.5", followed by an ad for Sunglasses Warehouse. (ancient memory, I fear I have that business name wrong)
Googling showed Sunglasses Wearhouse has several locations in the San Diego area, and none anywhere else. There's a KYXY on 96.5 there ("Kixie"), and their website did show a "Summer Cash Splash" contest.
Wasn't able to get any response to a QSL request but I think I'm reasonable to consider that a KYXY logging.
Multihop on the 6m ham band is indeed fairly commonplace; I've even made a contact into Croatia that way.
C
cd637299
Guest
TV via double hop (or 2Es in our code) is also commonplace, when folk in New England catch Venezuela on ch 2. I believe I read that it's because there is no land (or no channel 2's) in the path at 1000 miles, so "the coast is clear," one could say.
cd
cd
There's a very detailed early treatment of Sporadic E in one or more of the NAB Engineering Handbooks. There's also a discussion of F layer low VHF DX, which is most common during the sunspot maximum. Obviously, chances fall off rapidly with frequency (Channel 2 most common), but it's all about probability and paths. Obviously, double hops are more common when the midpoint is over salt water, and less common over fresh water. With the low number of US VHF-Low assignments, these might be possible from Canada and Mexico.
Once.
I had HIGM 88.1 Santiago, DR with 'Primera FM' one early afternoon in Summer 2009. Interestingly enough, I heard them again in the early evening hours. Double-hop in itself is pretty rare, but getting the same station twice in two separate openings in one day seems even more elusive.
Would love to get double-hop within the United States or Canada though.
I had HIGM 88.1 Santiago, DR with 'Primera FM' one early afternoon in Summer 2009. Interestingly enough, I heard them again in the early evening hours. Double-hop in itself is pretty rare, but getting the same station twice in two separate openings in one day seems even more elusive.
Would love to get double-hop within the United States or Canada though.
C
cd637299
Guest
Now....how about multi-hop?
Was viewing Sherlock tonight, and saw multi-hop outta my location to Chile & nearby. Nothing on ch 2 at all, but I believe the Lord told me to check my scanner, because I did get Chile on 47.9 (recorded music only).....Lo and behold, 47.9 AND 48.3 arrived early this evening, and also what sounds like an STL on 38.8 in Spanish (sounds a bit like SSB), but I have no clue who it is.
Anyway I direct you here for more....click further....
http://forums.wtfda.org/search.php?searchid=3140
cd
Was viewing Sherlock tonight, and saw multi-hop outta my location to Chile & nearby. Nothing on ch 2 at all, but I believe the Lord told me to check my scanner, because I did get Chile on 47.9 (recorded music only).....Lo and behold, 47.9 AND 48.3 arrived early this evening, and also what sounds like an STL on 38.8 in Spanish (sounds a bit like SSB), but I have no clue who it is.
Anyway I direct you here for more....click further....
http://forums.wtfda.org/search.php?searchid=3140
cd
Just to illustrate how common double-hop is at 50 MHz, check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uopluLi4qsw
That's 5W and a wire on the balcony of a hotel room. Easy. 1900 miles.
I think the point here is that double-hop actually happens quite a bit. See discussion of Venezuelan TV above. But it's often covered up by single-hop signals that are likely at least 20 dB stronger.
DE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uopluLi4qsw
That's 5W and a wire on the balcony of a hotel room. Easy. 1900 miles.
I think the point here is that double-hop actually happens quite a bit. See discussion of Venezuelan TV above. But it's often covered up by single-hop signals that are likely at least 20 dB stronger.
DE
A friend of my blog sent in the picture of KHTV in Little Rock, AR when he was a youngster in Chicago.
http://mighty1090kaay.blogspot.com/search?q=KHTV
I used to live on a ridge in Semmes, AL; when I got home at night, I'd regularly watch the even channels to the west in LA and Ch. 7 WDAM up in Laurel/Hattiesburg, MS around midnight and after. Couldn't get them in the early evening or toward's daylight. This is small potatoes next to you guys, BUT....
...I was in Mexia, AL years ago (near Monroeville, AL in Monroe County). I was on the outskirts of town, after hours in the company camp-house, after supper. I had (still have) a little Panasonic 5" B&W TV, with AM/FM radio. On the 4' telescoping rod, I was picking up stations from channel 14 all the way up to channel 83, from across the border into Mexico- UHF!!! I'd never done this before, only on VHF. I called a buddy of mine over in Evergreen, who I worked with, and he set up his VHS movie camera in front of the TV (everything was so old, there were no direct hook-ups) and taped each channel he flipped to! He shared the tape with me, but I don't know what happened to it.
That was about twenty years ago and I'll never forget it...my longest UHF skip ever....
Bud
http://mighty1090kaay.blogspot.com/search?q=KHTV
I used to live on a ridge in Semmes, AL; when I got home at night, I'd regularly watch the even channels to the west in LA and Ch. 7 WDAM up in Laurel/Hattiesburg, MS around midnight and after. Couldn't get them in the early evening or toward's daylight. This is small potatoes next to you guys, BUT....
...I was in Mexia, AL years ago (near Monroeville, AL in Monroe County). I was on the outskirts of town, after hours in the company camp-house, after supper. I had (still have) a little Panasonic 5" B&W TV, with AM/FM radio. On the 4' telescoping rod, I was picking up stations from channel 14 all the way up to channel 83, from across the border into Mexico- UHF!!! I'd never done this before, only on VHF. I called a buddy of mine over in Evergreen, who I worked with, and he set up his VHS movie camera in front of the TV (everything was so old, there were no direct hook-ups) and taped each channel he flipped to! He shared the tape with me, but I don't know what happened to it.
That was about twenty years ago and I'll never forget it...my longest UHF skip ever....
Bud
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