Doug Hoerth Memories

[ScottyBman]

Lynn Cullen remembers Doug:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/12280455 (Thurs.)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/12300893 (Fri.)

I thought Lynn did a wonderful job talking about Doug, while also stating he was a little eccentric. I worked as an intern at KD when he was there in the early/mid 1980's and he was not friendly or nice in the general office setting. I still did listen to him on the air.

The only other exception I have is that Lynn blamed the Renata's for killing him by removing him from radio. It is not the responsibility of an employer to make sure that your life is so encompassed by work and they have no responsibility to that. Its nice that he found an job that he enjoyed, but if the numbers or market doesn't work then you have to adapt. She did and she said that he didn't have the ability to do that Again not the responsibility of the Renata's. He could have done volunteering (I do on a Radio Reading Site for the visually impaired) or some other outlet. Podcasting....

Again, I think she did a wonderful job. I think the state of radio in today's world is awful. But I also think that to blame an employer for killing an employee is wrong, and shifts the blame from personal responsibility to someone else being responsible for you.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Well, Scott, that's Lynn.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the man was a chain smoker, which probably had more to do with him dying at 66 than anything else.

And, come to think of it, had more to do with Bob Prince passing at 68 than his broken heart from being let go from the Pirates broadcasts in 1975 did, had to be the ultimate cause of death for Myron Cope, is likely why Don Meredith passed away in December at a rather early age, etc.

On the other hand, it's also why we're going to get Mark Twain's autobiography now instead of in 15 or 20 years!!!!

If people think I'm being disrespectful, I apologize. But somebody tell Lynn Cullen that Kool cigarettes had a lot more to do with Hoerth's death than Renda Broadcasting making a programming change.

 

[GrizzledVet]

For the record, it's Renda Broadcasting (not "Renata").

While Lynn Cullen was dramatic in her presentation (and who would expect otherwise given her general style and the specifics of this story, personally and professionally), her point was not that the world owed Doug Hoerth a living; it was that Doug's will to live began declining precipitously after no longer having a radio program and audience. While she mused on the industry's apparent unwillingness to "find an hour for Doug", she also spoke of his apparent unwillingness to adapt or change.

While I understand your condemnation of smoking, her remarks are spot-on in this situation and I'd suggest you think more broadly. I would imagine that Bob Prince, Myron Cope and the others you cited continued to have an above-average zest for life after stepping aside. In Doug Hoerth's case, those close to him witnessed a man whose will to live greatly declined over a period of 24 months that included job loss, a changing industry, and death of a young friend. Perhaps some might argue that such a precipitous decline is due to weakness, self-infliction, or cognitive distortion (as in, the world owes someone a living), the point is still that the decline occurred and indeed the trigger point was the end of the Renda gig. And if you know anything about mental health, the acute and chronic consequences -- from loss of sleep, inadequate nutrition, disinterest in exercise and many other physical symptoms (not to say Doug had these, but to say that this and more is common) -- are far as detrimental or even moreso than those of smoking or a Western diet.

 

[CaliRadioGuy]

Just out of curiosity, what did Doug die from? The paper said natural causes, but that can be anything natural and he was only 66.....

I loved Lynn's tribute to him. As Lynn said, Doug could not learn how to adapt to or change like she learned how to do. It would have been great to hear him on Internet radio. I think a lot of his loyal listeners from around the world would have listened to him. Nevertheless, he helped define Pittsburgh radio during an era that is past us now and he will live on in a lot of us through the stories he shared and the times he made us laugh.

And for the record, if you go to Youtube, someone posted not only a clip from his show on WPTT in December of 2006, but someone else has part of a show he did on WTAE-AM in January 1997. He seemed to have a little more zest back then than in yhr 2006 show, but otherwise he was the same Uncle Doggie. I think WTAE-AM changed formats that November, but as I recall, Doug stayed on briefly during the format change to sports for awhile, right?

 

[ScottyBman]

For the record, it's Renda Broadcasting (not "Renata").

While she mused on the industry's apparent unwillingness to "find an hour for Doug", she also spoke of his apparent unwillingness to adapt or change.

I apologize for this misspelling. And she did indeed blame the employer and that how dare they say anything nice about the guy after taking his show from him.

For the record, it may have been his show, but their station. They have every right to do with it as they may please and that no one else wanted him might be as while there was just no market for him. Just as there is no market for Beta tapes today. Beta tapes were great, but we have to change and adapt.

Also, maybe it was the person that made some the of the decisions that stations made. Talented, yes. But the world is bigger than that. It takes the total package, again he was not a nice person in the general office settling. I am sure I am not the only to say that. And why would anyone stick their neck out for someone who was not friendly, cordial, nice, etc.

At the same time as my experience at KD, I ran into Patrice King Brown. A wonderful, nice genuine person, I could see why when they canceled her show, they worked to keep her. Could the same ever have ever been said about Doug.

Its more than what you know that keep you afloat in almost any business, radio is no different.

 

[fromtheinsideout]

[/quote]

At the same time as my experience at KD, I ran into Patrice King Brown. A wonderful, nice genuine person, I could see why when they canceled her show, they worked to keep her. Could the same ever have ever been said about Doug.

[/quote]

I could easily say the same thing about Doug after working with him for a number of years. When I had the opportunity to be on the air as a substitute host, the first person to call me and let me know what he thought of my work was Doug. He didn't have to sit around listening to me blab away on the radio, but he took the time nonetheless. He also had me on a number of his Friday shows, and even when he and I would disagree about something I never got a single cross word from him.

And I understand Lynn's frustration as well, to a certain degree I share it. It strikes me as just a tad bit hypocritical for Renda to sing the praises of how great they thought Doug was, when in fact they had no use for him and were all to willing to kick him to the curb. While I grant it is their station and they were within their rights of cancelling both of Doug's shows (he was let go from the oldies show the same day they cancelled the talk show), their new found praise of him rings a tad bit hollow.

 

[Boss Radio]

Exactly. My take on her rant was that it took some nerve for Alan Serena to offer a flowery quote to the Tribune about how good Doug was when he fired him from WPTT.

I never got the impression she was saying "Renda killed him" as much as she was saying it's a shame radio doesn't have room for a broader variety of shows. She also made the point that no one picked even picked him up for the oldies show.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Doug did Oldies as well as anybody I've ever heard. I doubt if he was ever actually a Top 40 jock in the Sixties, but he had a huge appreciation for what and how they did it back then. He knew how to communicate that so well and though he might have been too young to have been a "Good Guy"----------he really caught the feeling. Although we never met, he was cool to E-mail with because we seemed to share a strong memory of the same things. I hope he is finally really getting to share a time slot on the same station with BMR, Hy Lit, Ron Lundy, and Joe Niagra cause he was and will always be their peer.I remember that he said something like Hoerth that rhymes with Earth and his mother told him that he really liked being a kid. Rock,n, Roll is here to stay and when I get to where I can tune that station in, I wanna hear Dougie again and maybe send some more requests. Maybe this time we can get a cup of coffee at the big Starbucks. And his new GM don't make no budget cuts.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

You are correct Doug was not a jock in the '60's. He got into radio late, around 1977. I worked with him in the early days when he was in Florida. We had fun!

I'm glad to see him get his due here. The posts here prove Pittsburgh was the right place for his talent and passion.

Renda might have appreciated him, but like all businesses they will look after their own interests and bottom line. He had a long run that anyone could be proud of.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Renda was cool to let him communicate with fans while was he on the air.

 

[ScottyBman]

Exactly. My take on her rant was that it took some nerve for Alan Serena to offer a flowery quote to the Tribune about how good Doug was when he fired him from WPTT.

I never got the impression she was saying "Renda killed him" as much as she was saying it's a shame radio doesn't have room for a broader variety of shows. She also made the point that no one picked even picked him up for the oldies show.

One can appreciate talent, and still have to fire someone if they don't fit with the plans of the company. Many good people have gotten fired and moved on to bigger and better things. I, myself have fired people, but yet recognize their talents, it just wasn't what I was looking for. But I could recommend them for other things....

If you didn't get the impression that she meant "Renda killed him" you weren't listening.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Didn't Renda get rid of most everybody from 1360 and 1320. I know Lynn Cullen got axed from WPTT and for awhile WJAS was automated after 2 or 3PM. I presume WSHH has only 3 local shifts. I got downsized in 2008, but by then Doug was off the air . Wish he was still here cause we had that in common along with an enormous love for Sixties Top 40 radio.

 

[Boss Radio]

Exactly. My take on her rant was that it took some nerve for Alan Serena to offer a flowery quote to the Tribune about how good Doug was when he fired him from WPTT.

I never got the impression she was saying "Renda killed him" as much as she was saying it's a shame radio doesn't have room for a broader variety of shows. She also made the point that no one picked even picked him up for the oldies show.

One can appreciate talent, and still have to fire someone if they don't fit with the plans of the company. Many good people have gotten fired and moved on to bigger and better things. I, myself have fired people, but yet recognize their talents, it just wasn't what I was looking for. But I could recommend them for other things....

If you didn't get the impression that she meant "Renda killed him" you weren't listening.

No, I was listening. In fact, I listened to that show more than once. There was an equal emphasis on the fact that nobody else in the market picked up Hoerth, not even for the weekly oldies show. She also emphasized that Laurence Gaines tried to get him to try other platforms, including the Internet, and he showed no interest in that.

I'm not a fan of Renda and the way the stations operate, but they had also reached a point where they could not make money with Hoerth's show. He had also been dropped in the past by WWSW, KDKA and WTAE. Did they kill him? The difference was when he was fired from those places, there was another opportunity, including Renda for eight years.

If you read Matt Pritt's blog on Hoerth, he was also quite upset that Alan Serena had responded to the Tribune with comments about how good Hoerth was. He, like Cullen, found that hollow since Serena had fired Hoerth from WPTT. I can understand that outrage.

But to suggest that Renda had an obligation to keep Hoerth on the air is irrational.

 

[ScottyBman]

If you read Matt Pritt's blog on Hoerth, he was also quite upset that Alan Serena had responded to the Tribune with comments about how good Hoerth was. He, like Cullen, found that hollow since Serena had fired Hoerth from WPTT. I can understand that outrage.

But to suggest that Renda had an obligation to keep Hoerth on the air is irrational.

Would you have preferred him to say something derogatory?

 

[fromtheinsideout]

I would have preferred he kept his mouth shut. There was no real reason for Alan Serena to comment on someone who hasn't been an employee of his for 3 years and one he had in fact fired. After all, if it were simply the case of commenting on the death of former employees, one would have to wonder where his glowing comments for Bruce Keidan are.

 

[ScottyBman]

I would have preferred he kept his mouth shut. There was no real reason for Alan Serena to comment on someone who hasn't been an employee of his for 3 years and one he had in fact fired. After all, if it were simply the case of commenting on the death of former employees, one would have to wonder where his glowing comments for Bruce Keidan are.

Maybe no one asked.

 

[Pratte4Life]

I didn't think Serena put Hoerth in the best light he could have, stating how Hoerth talked about politics, pro wrestling, and porn stars. Two of those three aren't flattering. Yet that's not what Cullen or this board is criticizing, rather that he dared open his mouth.

Had Serena told the Trib "no comment," it likely would have resulted in further probing, and likely pursuing a path that uncovered of the side of Hoerth that wasn't flattering.

If you read between the lines, Cullen's anger at the Serena quote has to be more manifested into the fact she and he were both let go from the station and the right wing Tribune-Review's obit did seem hastily crafted, whereas the PG spent much more time eulogizing Hoerth.

Though the PG's obit, and for that matter Cullen, seemed to spend a tremendous time on portraying Hoerth as a lonely old man rather than a great talk show host. Because of that, I thought the Trib did the more flattering remembrance.

 

[FreddyE1977]

I think the Trib's obit was poorly crafted because they are cheap and hire lousy,
inexperienced writers, not due to right-wing bias per se. I'm rather right-wing
myself, and never had any problem with Hoerth on the radio. Or with Cullen for that matter.

 

[Pratte4Life]

I'm not saying the obit was poorly crafted because the paper has a right-wing slant and that Hoerth was a champion of the left. Hoerth wasn't, as I learned from my personal dealings with the man as well as that famous promo that ran forever on WTAE where he demanded harsher criticism of illegal drug users as well as the dealers.

I am saying to Cullen and an awful lot of people who do lean to the left politically, they will search for any reason to criticize the content in the paper.

Again, as another poster mentioned, what was Serena supposed to tell the reporter?

Cullen's criticism shouldn't have been with Serena making a comment. The critism should have been-

A- He made Doug out to be a slob watching pro wrestling and a porno fiend.

B- You touched on this Fred- Why would an obit writer search a quote out from someone who fired him? How would you like it if the local paper ran an obituary of you quoting an employer who terminated you?


"Sure Barry Obama, that's what we called him then, became President, but when he worked for us here at Burgerama when he was 16 he kept getting the orders mixed up. I had to let him go."

Still, at least the Trib didn't make his final legacy out to be that of a lonely old man.

 

[Boss Radio]

It ain't complicated: All Serena had to say was, "We appreciated the work Doug did for our stations for eight years, and we offer our condolences to his friends and fans."

If you knew the true story of Hoerth's last couple of years, you'd know that "lonely old man" portrayal was, sadly, spot on. The purpose of a news obit is to tell the story of the person, not to buff things up.