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Drastic measures must be taken to help HD take off...some suggestions

So, I ask again....
What would it take top make some sort of Digital Radio work? I'm not specifically asking about "HD Radio (IBOC)".

Would there need to be different programming? Is it all about technical issues?
What innovations/gimmicks would it take?

Heck, for that matter...does it have to just have a monthly charge before people will accept it?
 
kenglish said:
So, I ask again....
What would it take top make some sort of Digital Radio work? I'm not specifically asking about "HD Radio (IBOC)".

Would there need to be different programming? Is it all about technical issues?
What innovations/gimmicks would it take?

Heck, for that matter...does it have to just have a monthly charge before people will accept it?
People "know" that when a radio blanks out there's something wrong...radio doesn't do that.
It must act like a radio before people will accept it "as a radio".
What would be needed?
Enough data redundancy to make droputs irrelevant, or enough power to "always" be there.
Diversity reception, "paired" frequencies, and a new band, ideally near existing FM.
That would work.

Any mixing of digital and analog will have some problems.


However, what I consider radio to be "working" is when I can listen to a single signal cover many states.
 
kenglish said:
So, I ask again....
What would it take top make some sort of Digital Radio work? I'm not specifically asking about "HD Radio (IBOC)".

If you really insist that digital is even necessary, then kill this current crap and launch DAB in a new band. That's what it's taken overseas and even there it's a tough slog to get it established.

Digital FM? How necessary is it?
 
What do you mean by "work"? Do you mean eliminating most of the technical issues? Or, do you mean making consumers accept it? If you mean the latter, the only thing that will do the job is legislation from Congress ending analog radio broadcasting. And that won't happen.
 
I enjoy HD radio, however, I don't think it will be around long in it's current form.

Right now, the only advantage to HD over plain ol' analog, is the "stations between the stations" mulitcasts. Even if we can get the technical issues ironed out, people won't be willing to buy an HD radio unless there's something new to hear on it.

Get the tech specs for HD up & develop & promote good multicast programming. Maybe then, people might want to invest in a new HD radio.

Simple as that.
 
dxer720 said:
I enjoy HD radio, however, I don't think it will be around long in it's current form.

Right now, the only advantage to HD over plain ol' analog, is the "stations between the stations" mulitcasts. Even if we can get the technical issues ironed out, people won't be willing to buy an HD radio unless there's something new to hear on it.

Get the tech specs for HD up & develop & promote good multicast programming. Maybe then, people might want to invest in a new HD radio.

Simple as that.

Amen! Stations need to think "out of the box" a little and not think of themselves so much as an FM station but as a local media provider. 20 years ago, if I didn't like your rock station, chances are I had one similar station (at best) to switch to...and maybe several tapes or CD's. Now, I just switch my car stereo to "aux" and tune in any number of radio stations streaming online or just listen to my own music from my cell phone.

And I have a happy medium for all this: The FCC considers HD to be mandatory on all full-fledged FM stations (class A voluntary, B and C classes mandatory)...by...well...we'll say 2022. This gives stations sitting on the bench 12 years to have a transmitter failure, move-in, or simply save money up to buy a HD transmitter. It gives the INDUSTRY AND STATIONS years to promote the switch and drill it in consumer's heads. Companies can have 90% recognition of a product in 12 months...we're giving them 12 years!!!!! If they can't pull this off, the consumers obviously don't give a damn!

FCC also makes HD a required component in all FM radios by 2016. Gives the public 6 years to buy a radio...no coupons, no converters needed. HD power gets bumped up then as well to basically 15% of analog signal...giving all HD stations roughly about the same signal as the analog. DXers and LPFM operators may have a cow due to the adjacent channel buzz near the station, but this is "serving the public interest", y'know? Speaking of, 2020 would be the year Ibiquity would stop collecting royalties on stations and this prevents a virtual monopoly on HD radio technology.

By 2021, we cut down analog power to 25% of current power which would cut the analog coverage to about 1/3 of its current area...factoring in nearby IBUZZ. If it can without interference, stations may bump up HD to 20% of original analog power giving a superior signal to the analog.

In 2022, we give stations one of two options: Either keep the analog at its current power levels, or eliminate it and use the extra space for HD-5,6,7,etc. As the firmware-upgradeable radios come into play, some of these can be "premium" pay channels...and I could see someone like CC setting up a nationwide talk network or news, ESPN Radio, etc. Eliminating the analog on half these stations could easily put 60-70 "CD quality" radio stations in a medium or small-ish market. This gives AM's, translators, colleges, and the LPFM's the option of being heard on a much better signal as well!

I'm only a wannabe engineer, so the specs may not work too well, but it beats the current FM standard which will go the way of the newspaper and AM radio by then...guaranteed.

Also note that I consider myself to be a pretty hard-core libertarian. But if the FCC is going to do more than regulate interference, they may as well have a respectable broadcast band plan in place to boot.

Radio-X
 
What about creating a new band for Digital (not "AM", not "FM") Radio?
Maybe putting it in TV channels 5 and 6, immediately adjacent to the current FM band.

As for consumer acceptance, having a much larger number of channels available, with local content on many of them, might do it. Still carry local "stations", as well. If the acceptance level is high enough in a few years, give the rest of the old FM band to it. If not, maybe compacting the 88-108 band analog stations in to a smaller spectral footprint, and expanding the Digital up in to the low end, leaving some analog stations available.

I'm thinking that different "stations" could have different tech formats, such as a wider audio bandwidth for classical music, or some channels using surround sound. Niche news and features channels could use less bandwidth, as "mostly voice" formats.

Using a wide multiplex, similar to an ATSC Digital TV channel, to carry dozens of channels, would mean that translator stations could extend coverage to outlying areas....two DTV-style 6 MHz wide translators would carry channels 5 and 6 to an adjacent (rural) area, with many dozens of channels of programming. Rural areas could then have the same selection of programming as the big-city listeners.

At the very least, why not upgrade the existing HD Radios to tune 76 to 108 MHz (TV channels 5 and 6, and the existing FM band) , and put higher-powered HD Radio channels there? How hard would that be...aren't HD Radios just software based anyway)?

As for the AM band, I wonder if it will just thin itself out due to economic reasons. Maybe then, there would be more room for AM IBOC...with or without re-packing the frequencies. Or, maybe we go ALL-Digital there one day, using something like full-powered DRM.
 
radioskeptic said:
Re: Reply # 26 That post was intended as satire, wasn't it?

It had better be, because with all the other choices out there, effectively telling people that they must buy a new radio by a certain date is not going to fly with a substantial percentage of the population.

Radio Business Report/Television Business Report commented on a story, in part, that if HD continues to consist of AM rebroadcasts and FM format re-hashes, it will never be successful...something those of us with an ounce of programming knowledge already knew. You want to see those HD radios start flying off the shelves, technical shortcomings aside? Start giving people reasons to listen. So far, there are none.
 
radiodxrichmond said:
And I have a happy medium for all this: The FCC considers HD to be mandatory on all full-fledged FM stations (class A voluntary, B and C classes mandatory)...by...well...we'll say 2022. This gives stations sitting on the bench 12 years to (snip).....

Twelve years? Twelve years? Do you have any idea where we are going to be twelve years from now? With no disrespect intended, that makes about as much sense as the FCC's adoption of CBS mechanical color for TV back in the mid-50s. By that time, we will long have tossed HD on the electronics scrap heap along with SQ, CD-4 and the Elcaset.
 
I have to agree with the part about choices.

But, in a market with 40+ stations, and only about four formats (in the analog radio domain), I welcome the little bit of variety that some of the HD stations are offering. We have World Radio Network (WRN), and I have a place to hear Smooth Jazz again. Unfortunately, most others are "clones" of their main channel, or "near-clones".

It's also nice to get a couple of AM-HD clearly, without the noise and interference. But, I wonder what adjacent channels are airing ;) .
 
If you "want HD Radios to start flying off the shelves," a few things would have to happen.

Thing One: HD would have to start working acceptably in the field. (It can't. So it won't.)

Thing Two: We'd all have to climb into George and Harold's Purple Potty Time Machine and rewind the public's listening attitudes and perceptions of "broadcast radio" to somewhere around....oh, say 1970.

Thing Three: The Commission will either have to decree a successful revision of the laws of physics, or there will have to be a massive reallocation scheme which would make the 1941 NARBA reassignment of North American AM look like rearranging the icons on your PC desktop. (Neither is possible.)

Somebody earlier posited a scenario to the effect that at some arbitrary point iBiquity would stop receiving royalties. Actually, if you look closely at it, iBiquity's secrecy and Gestapo/Kempeitai policing of licensee commentary about their system is designed to circumvent the US Patent system, for the precise reason they want perpetual exclusive ownership. The Stroob will be extracting annual royalties and fees on IBOC until the day iBiquity's revenue therefrom peters out to about 25 cents.

I figure that will take about another five years.... :D
 
HD radio is a dead end street

8% of advertising sales are going to digital, THE internet. Radio is stuck at 6% and has been flat for years!
38% of media time is now devoted to digital, the internet. So the ad dollars will follow the eyeballs.
Remember what I said, radio's slice of the advertising pie has been flat for years and isn't growing!

The reason digital, THE internet keeps growing is because advertisers can easily measure
results. They can count hits, clicks, eyeballs and where you've been online. Digital, THE internet also allows advertisers it easily target the right customers, because they know what you like eliminating waste.

I don't agree with the methodology, but clients buy for their reasons not ours..
Digital radio, THE internet is already mobile and coming to cars all over the place..
And we have a generation of teens who have grown up with digital radio, THE internet.
And they view digital, THE internet has the source for new music discovery!

And playing the playlist we like is dead, it's so old school...HD and radio has perception problems..
with anyone under 20.. the next generation. Don't believe me? ask your teenager or their friends what they think of radio.. You won't like what you'll hear..
 
But wired bandwidth and multi-repeater distribution systems are so 1800's!
Radio is everywhere and the bill was paid in the instant of creation or what ever you believe in.
 
Savage said:
Actually, if you look closely at it, iBiquity's secrecy ... is designed to circumvent the US Patent system, for the precise reason they want perpetual exclusive ownership.

Hmmmm... haven't heard this much said before.

- Jonathan
 
The US Patent System's concept is to provide a finite amount of time for inventors to recoup investment in patentable developments, inventions, processes, etc. After a statutory period of time the innovation, whatever it is, passes into the public domain. That's the "expiration" of the patent.

If you keep the invention secret, locked-down and proprietary, you extend your exclusive ownership indefinitely and can try to keep a revenue stream alive through licensure to any and all end-users.
 
Savage said:
If you keep the invention secret, locked-down and proprietary, you extend your exclusive ownership indefinitely and can try to keep a revenue stream alive through licensure to any and all end-users.

But if a competitor appears, you'll have to prove they're infringing on your trade secret by revealing it. Plus, if it's part of a product you've introduced to the public for more than a year, you can't patent it any longer.

Dangerous game, if that's what they're doing...
 
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