DTV Experience

[Red1]

This question came to me as I travelled into the Adirondacks with a digital converter for the first time. I found that I couldn't receive a digital signal for channel 5 in Plattsburgh and had to switch back to analog. (That means that next year I will no longer have the benefit of "Storm Tracker 5000"'s excellent Adirondack weather report.)

That got me to thinking about the viewers that still receive local TV channels over the air. Analog was much more forgiving of distance. You could receive more distant signals even if they were "snowy." Living in the Bristol Hills, I often received analog signals from Syracuse or Buffalo. My point is that stations may lose those viewers who don't receive their signal over cable or satellite. Could this number be significant? Did the government consider this before making us all switch to digital?

 

[dhett]

Plattsburgh should have been well inside the coverage for WPTZ, so that shouldn't have been an issue. I'm assuming you had a UHF antenna - was your antenna pointed correctly? While WPTZ analog transmits from a tower in NY SW of Plattsburgh, WPTZ digital comes from a tower in Vermont east of Burlington.

Other possibilities could be a temporary power down for work at the transmitter site - it's hard to say exactly.

 

[BobRoss]

Plattsburgh should have been well inside the coverage for WPTZ, so that shouldn't have been an issue.

I don't believe Red1 said he was in Plattsburgh; rather he referred to the station as "Channel 5 in Plattsburgh."

That being said, Red... it might be more helpful if you could say where in the Adirondacks you were. And yes, there is a great swath of the Adirondack Park that seems like it could wind up being in a black hole... too far from Plattsburgh, Albany, Watertown or Utica to pick up any of those signals. Especially considering with digital -- you have it or you don't. There's no "partial" reception like you can get with analog.

If/when any reception holes become apparent, perhaps the FCC will allow one or more stations to increase their power. Or perhaps the FCC just figures, as long as there's ample radio reception, those people in the "TV hole" will just have to rely on radio for EAS alerts and other emergency information.

 

[benwolf]

The dirty little secret, which it is because nobody's reporting it and few have hooked up their converter box early, is that for many folks, many stations will be lost forever. I can't get 2 stations at all no matter how I raise the antenna. This will be a big story come February.
I recall reading that the U.S. decided against using the band used in Europe for this, and as a result our reception will be lacking compared to overseas. damn shame!

 

[dhett]

Plattsburgh should have been well inside the coverage for WPTZ, so that shouldn't have been an issue.

I don't believe Red1 said he was in Plattsburgh; rather he referred to the station as "Channel 5 in Plattsburgh."

D'oh!!! Read for comprehension, Dave, read for comprehension!

 

[Red1]

I was 11 miles northeast of Tupper Lake. But I've also run into the same problem in Romulus at Sampson State Park. I could get all the Rochester stations in analog but nothing through the digital converter.

It would seem something would need to be done. All those sets of eyes suddenly blind....

 

[dhett]

It looks like the change in transmitter location for WPTZ is the issue, then.

Tupper Lake is within the approximate WPTZ analog service contour, but outside the WPTZ digital service contour.

As for Sampson State Park, you're at the edge of each station's service area. Rochester's three VHF stations have UHF pre-transition digital allocations, so curvature of the earth could be a problem. Signal coverage of all three is less for their DTV signals than for analog, and in WHEC's case, significantly less. Post transition, both WHEC-TV and WHAM-TV are going back to their VHF channels, so you should get them back. WHAM's predicted DTV coverage is about the same as the analog coverage, while WHEC's is greater than analog.

 

[fybush]

It looks like the change in transmitter location for WPTZ is the issue, then.

Tupper Lake is within the approximate WPTZ analog service contour, but outside the WPTZ digital service contour.

As for Sampson State Park, you're at the edge of each station's service area. Rochester's three VHF stations have UHF pre-transition digital allocations, so curvature of the earth could be a problem. Signal coverage of all three is less for their DTV signals than for analog, and in WHEC's case, significantly less. Post transition, both WHEC-TV and WHAM-TV are going back to their VHF channels, so you should get them back. WHAM's predicted DTV coverage is about the same as the analog coverage, while WHEC's is greater than analog.

Being quite close to the issue at hand (literally - it's 4300 feet from my driveway to the Pinnacle Hill towers!), I can say that dhett is right on. It's not just a question of the pre-transition allocations, it's that they're all running their DTV signals from directional antennas fairly low on their towers. After 2/17/09, 10 and 13 will be running their digital signals into their old analog antennas, so coverage replication shouldn't be an issue.

As for WPTZ, it's moving its coverage to where the bulk of the market's population is. By going to Mount Mansfield with the Burlington stations, they'll have equal coverage to 3 and 22 (and 44, too, which now operates off the side of the WPTZ tower on Terry Mountain SW of Plattsburgh) - not good news for Tupper Lake, to be sure (I couldn't see any of the Mansfield DTV signals from a motel room in Lake Placid last month, either), but it's what's needed, competitively.

I'm hopeful that stations in situations like WPTZ's will start looking into DTV translators or SFN boosters once the heat of the transition is over, if that's what's needed to restore service in areas that are losing it. We'll see.

 

[dhett]

I'm hopeful that stations in situations like WPTZ's will start looking into DTV translators or SFN boosters once the heat of the transition is over, if that's what's needed to restore service in areas that are losing it. We'll see.

Fifteen years ago, that might have been the solution. Today, with the explosion in popularity of cable and satellite TV, I'm not so sure. Over-the-air TV has taken a real beating.

I wanted to think that digital subchannels might be the salvation of OTA TV, but in my home market, where I'm about the only person it seems not to have cable or satellite, one of the LP DTV stations was scheduled to add RTN as a digital subchannel back in January, but still haven't added it. Why? They can't get the dominant local cable "service" to add the channel. We probably won't see it until September, when the cable company shuffles their lineups and raises their rates the typical 8%. So basically, OTA TV is being held hostage by cable because cable penetration is so high, they can't sell advertising on an OTA-only subchannel.

 

[jiminCT]

You could receive WPTZ (albeit somewhat snowy) via antenna in Potsdam and Canton. This was from their analog transmitter in North Pole.

I suspect one will have no chance of picking up the digital signal from their Mt. Mansfield tower in those locations. St. Lawrence County as a whole will probably be affected by the switch. Time Warner will probably fiber it from the Champlain head end.

I know that DWS Cablevision in Star Lake and Cranberry Lake pick up WPTZ via antenna for their cable service (as well as WFFF). When they switch to digital, they may have to do what Hammond and Alex Bay do (they are out of the NBC reception antenna range..citizens cable picks up via satellite). Alex Bay picks up WDIV and Hammond picks up WHDH.

 

[pqgeorge]

It looks like the change in transmitter location for WPTZ is the issue, then.

Tupper Lake is within the approximate WPTZ analog service contour, but outside the WPTZ digital service contour.

As for Sampson State Park, you're at the edge of each station's service area. Rochester's three VHF stations have UHF pre-transition digital allocations, so curvature of the earth could be a problem. Signal coverage of all three is less for their DTV signals than for analog, and in WHEC's case, significantly less. Post transition, both WHEC-TV and WHAM-TV are going back to their VHF channels, so you should get them back. WHAM's predicted DTV coverage is about the same as the analog coverage, while WHEC's is greater than analog.

Being quite close to the issue at hand (literally - it's 4300 feet from my driveway to the Pinnacle Hill towers!), I can say that dhett is right on. It's not just a question of the pre-transition allocations, it's that they're all running their DTV signals from directional antennas fairly low on their towers. After 2/17/09, 10 and 13 will be running their digital signals into their old analog antennas, so coverage replication shouldn't be an issue.

As for WPTZ, it's moving its coverage to where the bulk of the market's population is. By going to Mount Mansfield with the Burlington stations, they'll have equal coverage to 3 and 22 (and 44, too, which now operates off the side of the WPTZ tower on Terry Mountain SW of Plattsburgh) - not good news for Tupper Lake, to be sure (I couldn't see any of the Mansfield DTV signals from a motel room in Lake Placid last month, either), but it's what's needed, competitively.

I'm hopeful that stations in situations like WPTZ's will start looking into DTV translators or SFN boosters once the heat of the transition is over, if that's what's needed to restore service in areas that are losing it. We'll see.

Hi Scott:
While you were in Lake Placid, was there any sign of W55AI (Channel 55//WVNY-22)? I recall this repeater while visiting Lake Placid/Wilmington over the years. I believe this was the same original translator that was on Whiteface during the '80 Olympics to allow for ABC to get the network feed (via WVNY), but had to leave the mountain after the games due to the Adirondack Park's insistence that no commercial operations (including TV or FM transmitters) are to be located on the mountain ("Forever wild" is the motto.) W55AI is supposed to be located at the Lake Placid Holiday Inn and mainly serves the village of Lake Placid. When the digital transition is complete, this repeater might be useful for those who don't subscribe to cable or satellite. 73.

 

[fybush]

I didn't see W55AI, either on the air or at the Holiday Inn...but I'll try to remember to ask WVNY's CE next time I talk to him.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Fifteen years ago, that might have been the solution. Today, with the explosion in popularity of cable and satellite TV, I'm not so sure. Over-the-air TV has taken a real beating.

I suspect in areas with decent population far from the towers, which used to get a snowy or at least watchable analog signal, the stations could still mount digital translators. I'm guessing around these parts, the Mansfield/Ashland area, on the edge of the Cleveland market and next to the edge of the Columbus market, would be a candidate.

Or maybe we'll see a resurgence of the "community antenna" groups that locally own translators that bring in the "big city" stations.

But I suspect you're mostly correct...the stations will either just live with cable/satellite carriage that far out, unless they have an existing analog translator network that will be converted to LD.

 

[dhett]

Personally, I hope DTV translators and LP stations do make it. The thing I hate about cable and satellite, and I don't seem to be alone on this, is that there's so much sameness out there. Every channel is trying to be like every other, going for the same demographic. It's like living in a town where the only eating choices are McDonald's, Taco Bell, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, and Denny's. National TV franchises are as interesting as national restaurant franchises. I'd rather see local establishments succeed.

Out west, LPDTV conversion is well underway. In Utah, where most of the translator TV systems are either owned by the town or by the county, similar to the CATV associations you mentioned, there are several LPDTV stations already operating and hundreds more are in the works. In Arizona, the Phoenix stations own the translator systems in the larger towns and seem to be committed to continuing translator TV. I'm not so sure how the smaller towns are going to fare though.

I can see a city like Mansfield keeping OTA service, as there are enough people to justify the cost, but apart from the CATV model, I can also see smaller towns being abandoned due to the expense of conversion.

 

[jiminCT]

A translator for NBC in Northern NY (Jefferson, St. Lawrence, Franklin, and Clinton) might be a real neccesity. I certainly hope so!

 

[cnymike]

The only NBC affiliate that would even consider is WSTM. But Watertown does need an NBC affiliate, or at least a translator. I'm tired of WWNY being the only choice, and the worst part is 7News acts it. Watertown needs competition.

 

[BobRoss]

I'm tired of WWNY being the only choice, and the worst part is 7News acts it.

You may be tired, but apparently people who actually live in Watertown aren't. WWTI tried to revive news in the late 90s when Smith owned it (and believed in spending a lot of money to revamp a news operation, as they had with WKTV a few years earlier). If the viewers really cared, WWTI would have overtaken WWNY... but apparently they didn't. I don't remember if it was Ackerley or Clear Channel who saw the writing on the wall, but they eventually realized WWTI would never win the battle, so they scaled things back to where they are today. At least WWTI tried, but if the viewers want to be stubborn and stay with WWNY... so be it.

You could say Smith's attempt to revive WWTI gave them a chance to feel what it's like to be WUTR.

But really, Watertown is pretty similar to Utica. You have one VHF station that signed on decades before the competition. And when the competition did come along, it was just a UHF station. While that doesn't really matter so much in a world where cable makes all local stations equal, it was a pretty big deal in the days before cable. WWNY had a very big head-start on WWTI... literally decades to get viewers hooked on their brand. And decades with a monopoly on local TV ad dollars... enough to build up a strong local news product. Anyone who hopes to compete head-to-head with WWNY would need to spend literally millions of dollars to outstaff and outdo them. Few, if any, owners will spend that kind of money in such a small market. It would take a long period of losing money to finally turn the tables and start making a profit.

For Utica, just replace WWNY with WKTV, and replace the WWTI references with WUTR. For the most part, you could even say the same circumstances describe why Binghamton's WBNG has always such a strong domination over WIVT.

 

[jiminCT]

The advent of the subcarrier has allowed Watertown to bring in good signals for FOX, CBS, ABC, CW and PBS. It's a shame WSTM's owner does not have a radio/tv operation up north. I've always though someone could do an NBC in Ogdensburg/Watertown to serve Kingston and Ottawa as well...do a "Two Nation Station" like WPBS has done. Anyway..just some rambling thoughts....

 

[cnymike]

With WWTI I've noticed more coverage of stuff happening in Lewis county, which I've heard a few people say that they liked WWTI better than WWNY back when they had news going. The problem with that though is that their antenna pattern pretty much leaves Lewis county in the dark, so they're relying on cable to carry them.

Also, I think Ackerley had a "News Channel 50" WIXT'ified logo on their website for a while before it was overtaken by ClearChannel. From the look of the current set, I was thinking that it was a temporary one, but it does have a lot of the elements of the other "NewSet" (company that made them) sets that Ackerley had made, just with blue coloring. I personally feel that the old Smith Media set that looked just like WKTV's was better than this one.

 

[BobRoss]

Just wondering... why can't WWTI get a VHF signal?
Channel 2 - Utica
Channel 3 - Syracuse
Channel 4 - OPEN
Channel 5 - Syracuse
Channel 6 - OPEN
Channel 7 - Watertown
Channel 8 - Rochester
Channel 9 - Syracuse
Channel 10 - Rochester
Channel 11 - CKWS
Channel 12 - OPEN
Channel 13 - Rochester

You could argue that Channel 4 is no good because of CBOT/Ottawa and Channel 6 is no good because of CJOH/Deseronto. But that still leaves channel 12 wide open.

Heck, I'd even argue that Rochester's a bit of a stretch from Watertown. With the proper set-up, a Watertown station should be able to use channel 8, 10 or 13 without causing a problem... especially pointing southeast towards Lewis County.