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DTV in the RGV

fredcantu said:
This would be a switch but maybe the English language stations (at least channels 4 and 5) would LMA an SD subchannel on the Telemundo signal to extend their reach up the Valley. Or maybe they can trade subchannels. Now that's what I call thinking out of the box.
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First of all, to W9WI, I looked through your listing for Colorado and couldn't find anything matching your description. I found one carrying Fox/CW/My/PBS, but nothing with four independents. I'd be curious to see this one.

Second, I like this idea. I could see KGBT, specifically, going for it since they don't already have a bunch of subchannels. It'd be interesting to see if something comes of it.

As for the translator idea, how does KTLM's DT-20 signal make it out right now? That signal is 14 kW from about 200 feet, if they bumped it up to a higher point on the tower, it could be used as a translator, assuming a license could be obtained for it. The channel 20 frequency has already been coordinated with Mexico, so it wouldn't have that stumbling block.

- Trip
 
The map I found for KTLM ( http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS634005.html ) shows its coverage to be more than adequate for what we're talking about here. However...allow me to slip back into my Valley mindset for a moment ... <grin>...

KTLM is owned by a local company (apparently) called Sunbelt Multimedia. If I'm the owner of this company, have gone into an area that's been underserved by TV for years, made the investment and established the reputation, I'd have to think long and hard before allowing the other stations to piggyback on my carrier...unless some serious coin changed hands, of course!
 
tripinva said:
First of all, to W9WI, I looked through your listing for Colorado and couldn't find anything matching your description. I found one carrying Fox/CW/My/PBS, but nothing with four independents. I'd be curious to see this one.
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That's the one I meant. (consider that post the result of being in too much of a hurry. Really I do consider CW and My independents ;) )

Second, I like this idea. I could see KGBT, specifically, going for it since they don't already have a bunch of subchannels. It'd be interesting to see if something comes of it.
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That *is* an interesting idea.
 
mmnassour said:
The map I found for KTLM ( http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=DS634005.html ) shows its coverage to be more than adequate for what we're talking about here. However...allow me to slip back into my Valley mindset for a moment ... <grin>...
Click to expand...

I saw the map too, but those maps can be wrong. I figured maybe someone in the area would have a better idea of its actual coverage.

KTLM is owned by a local company (apparently) called Sunbelt Multimedia. If I'm the owner of this company, have gone into an area that's been underserved by TV for years, made the investment and established the reputation, I'd have to think long and hard before allowing the other stations to piggyback on my carrier...unless some serious coin changed hands, of course!
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How about gaining OTA coverage in Brownsville? I could see KTLM on 4-3 and KGBT on 40-2. Sort of an even exchange, as it were. Since it's English, KGBT wouldn't really be directly competing. (That's actually the main reason I said KGBT and not KVEO with Estrella TV coming on 23-2 and KRGV with LATV on 5-2)

- Trip
 
tripinva said:
How about gaining OTA coverage in Brownsville? I could see KTLM on 4-3 and KGBT on 40-2. Sort of an even exchange, as it were. Since it's English, KGBT wouldn't really be directly competing. (That's actually the main reason I said KGBT and not KVEO with Estrella TV coming on 23-2 and KRGV with LATV on 5-2)

- Trip
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While I think it would be great for the market, I'm betting the owners of KGBT wouldn't bite. KTLM would be gaining more in Brownsville than KGBT would in Starr County. Oh and trust me, English and Spanish stations do directly compete with each other in the RGV, especially for ad dollars!
 
tripinva said:
As for the translator idea, how does KTLM's DT-20 signal make it out right now? That signal is 14 kW from about 200 feet, if they bumped it up to a higher point on the tower, it could be used as a translator, assuming a license could be obtained for it. The channel 20 frequency has already been coordinated with Mexico, so it wouldn't have that stumbling block.

- Trip
Click to expand...

I've only been able to pick up this signal once or twice and it was very early in the morning. I don't live in the predicted coverage area though. This past weekend though KTLM tested their DT 40 signal. The signal was as strong and in some cases stronger than the other stations. I had forgotten that KTLM is also facing coverage issues but at the opposite end of the market (Brownsville). I agree with mmnassour- KTLM would gain more in Brownsville than KGBT would in Starr county.
 
mmnassour said:
KTLM is owned by a local company (apparently) called Sunbelt Multimedia. If I'm the owner of this company, have gone into an area that's been underserved by TV for years, made the investment and established the reputation, I'd have to think long and hard before allowing the other stations to piggyback on my carrier...unless some serious coin changed hands, of course!
Click to expand...

The owner of Sunbelt Multimedia is from Starr County.
 
God love Sunbelt for putting a signal over Starr County. But could it also be that Sunbelt went with 40 in RGC because all the good Valley allocations were already taken and a rim shot was the best they could do?
 
Well, there's certainly no channel 40 anywhere else near the RGV. I know that when I was down there, and for years afterward, several groups spent a lot of money and time trying tying to get the first Spanish-language station, channel 48 in McAllen, up and running. Then, only a very short time later, the application for channel 40 in RGC was OK'd. I get a feeling that the application was approved not only because of the city of license, but also due to the locally-based, minority ownership. I certainly don't have a problem with that, as we certainly need more locally-owned TV in Texas.

But KTLM may not be the Rio Grande City-centered organization we think it is. When you search for KTLM at the FCC website, the first thing you see is this link: http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report2/Harlingen-Weslaco-Brownsville-McAllen_TX.pdf .

It appears to be a proposal to move KTLM's transmitter from the Rio Grande City area to the general Rio Grande Valley antenna farm at LaFeria. So perhaps all of our speculation here is for naught. Also, FWIW, KTLM has been granted permission to change its post-digital allocation from channel 20 to channel 40.
 
It was approved, but they asked to relocate back to channel 40 and keep the current tower site. KTLM wanted to move, but decided not to.

- Trip
 
Speaking of DTV in the RGV-- XHRIO now has a digital assignment, channel 26. I wonder if Fox ''asked'' them to get moving on it.
 
mmnassour said:
Well, there's certainly no channel 40 anywhere else near the RGV. I know that when I was down there, and for years afterward, several groups spent a lot of money and time trying tying to get the first Spanish-language station, channel 48 in McAllen, up and running. Then, only a very short time later, the application for channel 40 in RGC was OK'd. I get a feeling that the application was approved not only because of the city of license, but also due to the locally-based, minority ownership. I certainly don't have a problem with that, as we certainly need more locally-owned TV in Texas.
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Channel 40 would have been limited to a site well west of the rest of the RGV by other nearby channels. It had to be at least 31km from channel 48 because if the two stations' signals mixed, they could form an "IF beat" that would interfere with every channel. It had to be the same distance from any station on channels 35-45 due to "crossmodulation". (channel 36 is allotted to Reynosa and channel 42 to Rio Bravo.

That, and the tower farm is too far east of RGC - a maximum-power UHF station in the tower farm can't put an 80dBu signal across RGC, as required by 73.685(a). (they could have rectified that by having the channel allotted to some other town further east, though again that wouldn't have been possible due to the Mexican assignments and KNVO)

It appears to be a proposal to move KTLM's transmitter from the Rio Grande City area to the general Rio Grande Valley antenna farm at LaFeria. So perhaps all of our speculation here is for naught. Also, FWIW, KTLM has been granted permission to change its post-digital allocation from channel 20 to channel 40.
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As Trip says, KTLM changed their mind about moving to channel 20 in the main antenna farm. It looks like they plan to attach a channel 40 DTV transmitter to the existing analog antenna at the existing site. I might venture a guess they decided in the current economy they can't afford to build a new tower/antenna.
 
w9wi said:
Channel 40 would have been limited to a site well west of the rest of the RGV by other nearby channels. It had to be at least 31km from channel 48 because if the two stations' signals mixed, they could form an "IF beat" that would interfere with every channel. It had to be the same distance from any station on channels 35-45 due to "crossmodulation". (channel 36 is allotted to Reynosa and channel 42 to Rio Bravo.
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Thanks...I did not know about the Mexican UHFs, and was sadly rusty on my transmitter knowledge.

That, and the tower farm is too far east of RGC - a maximum-power UHF station in the tower farm can't put an 80dBu signal across RGC, as required by 73.685(a). (they could have rectified that by having the channel allotted to some other town further east, though again that wouldn't have been possible due to the Mexican assignments and KNVO)
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We've got an example of that right here in Austin, where we've got...in theory...a Univision affiliate licensed to "Killeen/Austin" (whatever that is) that can't be seen anywhere in the Austin metro area without some major UHF antenna hardware outside.
 
Um... KAKW is a VHF station, not UHF. That might be why you're having so much trouble receiving it.

- Trip
 
tripinva said:
Um... KAKW is a VHF station, not UHF. That might be why you're having so much trouble receiving it.

- Trip
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I think he's referring to the analog station, on channel 62, not the digital, on channel 13. The discussion was about 47 CFR 73.685(a), which deals with analog TV.
 
Ah, whoops, my turn to not be paying full attention! Most people don't talk about "major antenna hardware" these days about analog... :)

- Trip
 
My bad, I should have been more clear about KAKW.

Actually, I was referring to the current analog signal. It wouldn't surprise me if the RGC station has the same issues in the Valley. The maps say one thing, but the actual signal is a whole other animal.
 
mmnassour said:
My bad, I should have been more clear about KAKW.

Actually, I was referring to the current analog signal. It wouldn't surprise me if the RGC station has the same issues in the Valley. The maps say one thing, but the actual signal is a whole other animal.
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The ch 40 analog signal is one of the strongest where I live and that's about 25-30 miles SE of the transmitter. I would imagine the further east you go (Harlingen), one would need a stronger antenna to pick up KTLM. Their digital signal also came in pretty strong during the recent test- using the signal meter on my Zenith converter box.
As for XHRIO, I hope DT 26 puts out a much better signal than analog Ch 2. 2 has awful reception. I always had to unplug the VCR/DVD to get a somewhat decent picture.
 
silverthree said:
As for XHRIO, I hope DT 26 puts out a much better signal than analog Ch 2. 2 has awful reception. I always had to unplug the VCR/DVD to get a somewhat decent picture.
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Ironic, since I once picked up XHRIO here in the Phoenix area. FWIW, it wasn't a very good signal here either. ;)
 
dhett said:
silverthree said:
As for XHRIO, I hope DT 26 puts out a much better signal than analog Ch 2. 2 has awful reception. I always had to unplug the VCR/DVD to get a somewhat decent picture.
Click to expand...

Ironic, since I once picked up XHRIO here in the Phoenix area. FWIW, it wasn't a very good signal here either. ;)
Click to expand...

Agreed. XEFB has a much better signal here in Nashville :)
 
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