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DTV Reception in Rural New England - Part II

Here's my update on DTV reception in Rural New England since the June 12th switchover. My summer cottage is on the New Hampshire-Maine border, 100 miles north of Boston, 35 miles west of Portland and 45 miles northeast of Manchester. The cottage is just a few feet above lake level, surrounded by hills, so we need several tools for decent reception. There's a large, early 90s Radio Shack antenna on the roof mounted on a rotor, a Channel Master antenna booster and a Magnavox digital converter. If it weren't for the rotor, I'd have a hard time getting watchable TV signals.

Much has been discussed on these sites that digital stations switching to VHF channels have not fared as well as when they were on UHF signals. I've had mixed experiences with several stations that use VHF signals. Now that WMUR Manchester, an ABC outlet, switched its DTV signal to its original dial position at VHF 9 (and I assume a more powerful transmitter than its previous DTV output) the station comes in quite well, although I do have to tune the rotor fairly precisely to get it. If I'm off by a few degrees, my converter says "No Signal." Previously, my converter did not pull in WMUR at DTV 59, although the analog signal used to come in no matter where the antenna was pointed. I also get very well New Hampshire PBS WENH, now on original dial position at VHF 11. It's my strongest channel, according to the meter on my converter.

But WMTW Poland Spring ABC 8 (the only station to return to its VHF channel in the Portland market) is not coming in as well as it had with its previous DTV signal on 46. It's still good, but the rotor on my rooftop antenna must pointed more precisely to pick up DTV 8.

So my channel line up in East Wakefield NH (near the junction of Rts. 110 and 153) is:

Ch. 6 WCSH NBC Portland DTV 44 (weather/news channel on .2)
Ch. 8 WMTW ABC Poland Spring DTV 8 (weather/news channel on .2)
Ch. 9 WMUR ABC Manchester DTV 9
Ch. 11 WENH PBS Durham DTV 11 (on .1 and .2, PBS Explore on .3)
Ch. 13 WGME CBS Portland DTV 38 (on .1 and .2)

If I position it in exactly the right spot, I can get all five channels without having to adjust the rotor everytime I change the channel. But if it's only a few degrees off, I can lose WCSH, WMTW and/or WMUR. I also notice on a bright sunny day between noon and 4pm, I sometimes lose these three stations for a few seconds, no matter how well I position the rotor.

On the other hand, WGME Portland CBS was just barely watchable as an analog channel, with ghosts and snow. Now its DTV signal, from its tower in Raymond ME, is one of the strongest at the cottage. (No more having to put up with double or triple David Lettermans, doing their monologue in a snow storm.) WMTW also had ghosts, whether it was on Mount Washington NH or its more recent location near Sebago ME. Now the DTV signal is perfect, provided I adjust the rotor correctly.

I did lose WPXG Concord NH, an Ion station originally on analog 21, now on DTV 33. That station gave me only a so-so analog signal at my cottage. Now it doesn't come in at all. But I have little interest in Ion's line up so that isn't much of a loss.

When conditions are right, on some nights and mornings (sunset to around 9 or 10am), these Boston stations can be received in the following order:

Ch. 7 WHDH NBC DTV 42 (and 70s movies on .2)
Ch. 4 WBZ CBS DTV 30
Ch. 25 WFXT Fox DTV 31
Ch. 2 WGBH PBS DTV 19 (on .1 and .2)
Ch. 5 WCVB ABC DTV 20

I'm guessing WHDH has been experimenting with its VHF 7 transmitter while it also uses its UHF 42 transmitter because a few times I hit "scan" and two 7.1 and 7.2 channels registered on my converter. While the UHF signal was the better of the two, I did get good reception on VHF 7 when conditions were right. 42 is the easiest Boston channel to bring in, but 7 comes in better than other Boston signals after WBZ and WFXT. According to other posts, WHDH wants the FCC to let them stay on 42 and forget 7.

The website www.tvfool.com predicts that Maine PBS WMEA Biddeford DTV 45 should be among the easiest stations to receive at my cottage. Instead, I don't even get a blip when I look for it, not even when I rotate the antenna in all directions. One poster on this board said the station is broadcasting from a mountain in Sanford ME, which is only about 25 miles from my cottage.

I wonder why they chose Sanford for their transmitter? I believe WMEA-FM uses the WCSH TV tower in Sebago for its powerful Class C signal, one of only four Class C stations in the Portland market. Why not put WMEA-TV there too? WMEA-TV's transmitter in Sanford puts the station very close to the New Hampshire PBS outlet in Durham, WENH. I guess that's one of the quirks about digital television. Two PBS stations, only a dozen miles apart. One gives me excellent reception, while the other doesn't even register with my converter. And against conventional DTV wisdom, it's the VHF station that comes in great and the UHF station that I can't get.

In New York, several co-owned stations piggyback on each other's signals. For instance, Fox 5 WNYW has co-owned WWOR as its .2 programming. And My 9 WWOR has WNYW as its .2 programming. Same with Univision WXTV and Telefutura WFUT. So why doesn't WGBH make WGBX its .2 programming? Or why doesn't WBZ make WSBK its .2 programming? WGBX and WSBK have weaker signals than their sister stations. WMUR has (or had) a low-power Fox affiliate in Manchester. I wonder why they don't put that on a 9.2?


Gregg
[email protected]
 
Hi Gregg,
I'm very familiar with your location in East Wakefield, NH. I lived many a summer at Belleau Lake, just across the street from the Junction of Routes 153 and 110. Just about a half mile from that location. During the time I vacationed there (1969-1977), the line-up of receivable stations were....
2 *WGBH-TV Boston (fair)
3 WCAX-TV Burlington, VT (very weak but sometimes watchable)
3 WTIC-TV Hartford (a frequent visitor in the summer months)
4 WBZ-TV Boston (fair)
5 WHDH-TV/WCVB-TV Boston (fair)
6 WCSH-TV Portland (strong)
7 WNAC-TV Boston (somewhat weaker than 2, 4 or 5)
8 WMTW-TV Poland Spring, ME (a killer signal from Mt. Washington)
9 WMUR-TV Manchester (weak)
10 *WCBB-TV Augusta (weak)
11 *WENH-TV Durham (snowy)
13 WGAN-TV Portland (ghosty)
26 *WMEG-TV Biddeford, ME (very strong, now WMEA-TV)

Only on strong trops were we able to get the Boston UHF's 38, *44 and 56. We had no outside aerials at the cottage, so the nightly trops from Boston were essential to get some local news from home. But with the absense of any strong signals on 2, 3, 4 and 5, it opened up a great opportunity to do some e-skip DX'ing (which I did quite often).

Out of curiosity, did you ever get WCDC-TV (Channel 19, Adams, MA) up in East Wakefield before WGBH took over 19?

I must say that getting the Boston DTV's (on a semi-regular basis) way up there in East Wakefield, NH is truly amazing! Congratulations!


Peter Q. George (K1XRB)
former Belleau Lake resident
East Wakefield, NH (1969-77)
 
I'm going to guess no...but are you getting any digital signal from either MY of Derry, NH or Telemundo of Merrimack, NH?
 
A theory (and simply that), is that WMEA-TV (which is licensed to Biddeford) being far south is for better southern Maine penetration. I know in York Beach, I could watch a solid signal from WMEA-TV at the hotel right on the beach when I was younger. The Portland area is covered by both WMEA and WCBB. Southern Maine would have issues with 11 being so close to receive a clean WCBB signal there back in the analog days.
 
From Poland Springs ME (2nd floor of a motor lodge with ave elevation), we could only get the NBC, CBS, and FOX affiliates (6.1,13.1, 23.1) on a digital TV and indoor antenna when we vacationed in late June. It did rain almost constantly...Being stubborn, I tried for other stations numerous times but no success.
We got the "Big Five" clearly last year plus 3-4 out of market stations from N.H. and Bangor in previous years albeit with snow with a B and W with a single rabbit ear and 99 cent loop. But we didn't watch much TV anyway.
But as in the orignial post no WMTW from Poland Spring ME or PBS for that matter.
And the antenna had to be positioned perfectly to get those 3.
People in the hotel at the top of the hill reported getting the same 3 stations and no ABC. They were about 100 ft higher up than us with better LOS.
 
So you were in Poland Spring, ME, the city of license of WMTW-DT...and you got nothing from them? Wow! Just how far is Poland Spring from their Baldwin, ME transmitter site anyways?
 
Didn't look it up but I guess about 15-20 mi-about the same distance as the other 3 stations I actually received.
A number of people staying at the hotel (long time guests) noted the irony.
 
From a vacation home in Eaton, NH, on the second floor, I get (in order of strength):

---------------------------------(Good)
1. WMTW (ABC-Portland/18 miles away)
2. WGME (CBS-Portland/30 miles)
---------------------------------(Medium)
3. WCSH (NBC-Portland/20 miles)

Before DTV:

---------------------------------(Good)
1. WCSH (NBC-Portland/20 miles)
2. WMTW (ABC-Portland/18 miles)
3. WGME (CBS-Portland/30 miles)
4. WCBB (PBS-Augusta/56 miles)
---------------------------------(Medium)
5. WPXT (CW-Portland/39 miles)
6. WPME (MyNet-Portland/39 miles)
7. WPFO (FOX-Portland/56 miles)
---------------------------------(Very Weak)
8. WLBZ (NBC-Bangor/108 miles)
9. WVII (ABC-Bangor/138 miles)

So, with DTV, I have lost most stations.
 
vibe said:
From Poland Springs ME (2nd floor of a motor lodge with ave elevation), we could only get the NBC, CBS, and FOX affiliates (6.1,13.1, 23.1) on a digital TV and indoor antenna when we vacationed in late June.

So you were in Poland Spring, ME, the city of license of WMTW-DT...and you got nothing from them? Wow! Just how far is Poland Spring from their Baldwin, ME transmitter site anyways?

Despite Kevin's comment, I don't believe this has anything to do with the WMTW transmitter or it's signal strength in Poland Spring.
Most indoor antennas are really only good for solid UHF reception, I've only seen one or two models (of the MANY which I have seen personally in use) which do well with VHF DTV reception. Simply put for good solid VHF Hi reception, youre better off with a good VHF design antenna (rabbit ears) or roof top antenna. All of those stations he mentioned are UHF (6 on 44, 13 on 38, 23 on 23), and 8 which is on 8 VHF. I noticed you didnt mention reception of 10.1 (which is on 10, co-located with 23, at about the same height to boot.)
 
Sorry about that! I thought WMTW-DT was still on channel 46 or whatever. I haven't been up that way in quite some time! Here in greater Hartford, WTNH-DT (ABC) of New Haven was channel 8 on analog. They use channel 10 for digital. I get them MOST of the time here in southern Hartford County.
 
Didn't get 10.1 PBS while at Poland Spring despite repeated attempts. FWIW in an attempt to get the 2 VHF digitals (8 and10) I lowered the rabbit ears considerably to about 1/3 mast; tried them at 2/3 mast and fully extended-simply no go. Not even a sniff.l
 
I assume you mean you collapsed them inward then outward? That doesn't help as much as you'd think. You would be better off to try positioning them, changing the location etc. Did you have a VHF amplifier on them? Indoors, especially in multiple unit places (apartments, hotels) tend to be notoriously noisy for good VHF reception. DTV on VHF-High works perfectly fine if you have the right equipment to recieve it and are in a good enviroment for it.
Most indoor antennas are terrible for VHF High, unfortunatley, and thus people tend to think that it's the transmission band that's bad, when its really the inferior receive side that causes the biggest headaches.
 
Necrat-Poland Springs is a seasonal resort (pool,golf course,numerous activites etc) that got its start by offering ridiculously low prices for an "in season" vacation. Their lowest priced package is $500 for 7 nites incl taxes/service fees includes 14 buffet meals each.
Previous to this year all TV's were 12" B and W that got the Big 5 perfectly clear. Because of digital, (and presumably because the cable company didn't want to deal) the owner installed new digital TV's with an indoor, non amplifed antenna, that in retrospect does the job for UHF but not VHF. Guests in the main hotel (about 100 ft higher up) MAY be able to pull in VHF but the few people we talked to said they didn't get ABC 8.1 or PBS 10.1 either. Which further reinforces that VHF hi on digital is near useless.
 
vibe said:
Because of digital, (and presumably because the cable company didn't want to deal) the owner installed new digital TV's with an indoor, non amplifed antenna, that in retrospect does the job for UHF but not VHF. (clipped) Which further reinforces that VHF hi on digital is near useless.

Useless in a situation where poor receive equipment is used, absolutley. I agree. The owner of the hotel should've done a better job with the master antenna system. I am familiar with where Poland Spring is, and if I owned a hotel there with OTA TV sets in the room, a outdoor RF system (amplified, good antennas) would've been on my list as soon as I changed the TV sets over. For both the VHF and UHF reception.
(I would use an outdoor antenna system on any master distributed RF system I install, no matter where I am, that's just a matter of good buisness practice for decent reception).
 
Nerat-I'm just curious-what IS the cost of a master antenna system that can feed, say, 30 to 50 units in locations such as P.S. where the distance to the transmitters (less than 30 mi) is doable?
You would need VHF and UHF antennas pointed in 2 different directions since PBS (10) and FOX (23) are to the N of P.S. and the others presumably S-SW.
I would hardball the cable company if I were the owner and pass the added cost to the customer who is already getting a cheap vacation. Or am I talking out of my hat??
 
vibe said:
Nerat-I'm just curious-what IS the cost of a master antenna system that can feed, say, 30 to 50 units in locations such as P.S. where the distance to the transmitters (less than 30 mi) is doable?
You would need VHF and UHF antennas pointed in 2 different directions since PBS (10) and FOX (23) are to the N of P.S. and the others presumably S-SW.

I would need to sit down and figure this out off the top of my head.

vibe said:
I would hardball the cable company if I were the owner and pass the added cost to the customer who is already getting a cheap vacation. Or am I talking out of my hat??

Oh absolutley not, but good luck trying to get a deal out of the cable operators. Who is the cable operator up there?
The other question is, how many of the vacationers are actually watching TV while there?
That also goes into play.
 
I don't know who the cable operator is up there. I do know that most of the people I talked to watch very little TV (or so they say).
 
This time at Poland Spring (same room, same TV one month later) I got CBS 13.1, NBC 6.1 and Fox 23.1 AND ABC 8.1 and PBS 10.1 It would seem that ABC and PBS may have tweaked their signals. Or maybe I tweaked the antenna . PBS came in every nite except last night. ABC was solid all week.
 
Well it's been a couple of years since no one else has replied to this topic, and which I would like to respond is: Has anyone ever had ord done any DTV scans in Kittery, Maine? Acorrding to aol's tv listing website, this is what viewers in Kittery actualy get for OTA TV stations:

Ch. 2 WGBH PBS Boston DTV 19
Ch. 4 WBZ CBS Boston DTV 30
Ch. 5 WCVB ABC Boston DTV 20
Ch. 6 WCSH NBC Portland DTV 44
Ch. 7 WHDH NBC Boston DTV 42
Ch. 8 WMTW ABC Poland Spring DTV 8
Ch. 9 WMUR ABC Manchester DTV 9
Ch. 11 WENH PBS Durham DTV 11
Ch. 13 WGME CBS Portland DTV 38
Ch. 21 WPXG ION Concord DTV 33
Ch. 26 WMEA PBS Biddeford DTV 45
Ch. 44 WGBX PBS Boston DTV 43
Ch. 50 WBIN IND Derry DTV 35
Ch. 60 WNEU TEL Merrimack DTV 34
Ch. 62 WMFP PLUM Lawrence DTV 62

Has anyone in that town been able to recieve those stations, and possibly more too? Hope someone knows all this.
 
Never believe online TV listings sites for available OTA channels. They're usually very inaccurate. I'm in Natick MA and if you type in my zip code (01760) I don't get about half of what's listed there.
 
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