Duh Bone

[stench]

Someone put that station out of its misery.

 

[pittdave]

When on earth is everybody going to realize that we simply CANNOT change what the radio gods(consultants) deem is a good radio station. The Bone is Classic Rock... That means Godzilla, Smoke On The Water, Freebird, More Than A Feeling and Hey Joe. LIVE WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!! If you can't handle it, put on your IPOD and get on with your teacup dog carrying, BMW325i driving kind of a life. Any complaining done here on this board does no good and I'm sure the aforementioned consultants get a nice Capital One chuckle out of it. I've been all over this country and, yes I agree, The Bone and the rest of Dallas radio sucks a big pickle through a little straw, but short of the masses running into CC and Cume-less and lopping off a few heads and getting some blood on our hands, IT AIN"T CHANGING! It is disheartening that a city like Albany, NY and even Minneapolis has better music stations than market #5, but that's the hand we've been dealt and even going all in with a 10-2 offsuit won't change the crap-pot we are mired in.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I Can't Drive 55 is on again and I need to put some more strychnine in the guacamole.

PD

 

[jeffdfw]

When on earth is everybody going to realize that we simply CANNOT change what the radio gods(consultants) deem is a good radio station. The Bone is Classic Rock... That means Godzilla, Smoke On The Water, Freebird, More Than A Feeling and Hey Joe. LIVE WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!! If you can't handle it, put on your IPOD and get on with your teacup dog carrying, BMW325i driving kind of a life. Any complaining done here on this board does no good and I'm sure the aforementioned consultants get a nice Capital One chuckle out of it. I've been all over this country and, yes I agree, The Bone and the rest of Dallas radio sucks a big pickle through a little straw, but short of the masses running into CC and Cume-less and lopping off a few heads and getting some blood on our hands, IT AIN"T CHANGING! It is disheartening that a city like Albany, NY and even Minneapolis has better music stations than market #5, but that's the hand we've been dealt and even going all in with a 10-2 offsuit won't change the crap-pot we are mired in.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I Can't Drive 55 is on again and I need to put some more strychnine in the guacamole.

PD

Well said! Esp the pickle through the straw part... priceless!

 

[johnqdoe]

If they had any sense, they'd be goin deeper with the playlist. KZPS was doing that a few months before they flipped...and lo & behold, they're ratings spiked way up....

 

[rbrucecarter5]

If they had any sense, they'd be goin deeper with the playlist. KZPS was doing that a few months before they flipped...and lo & behold, they're ratings spiked way up....

Well the ratings ought to really spike with the only competition in town going hillbilly music! All the Bone has to do is play the best of their playlist and the best of KZPS playlist, and they are SET!
Oh - and keep promoting that "no country" guarantee.

Its new car radio time for me - Pioneer supertuner for first adjacents - the real stations between the stations - like KTCU. And senstivity for KMAD, KNIN. XM add-on. HD - don't make me laugh!

 

[txchipk]

If they had any sense, they'd be goin deeper with the playlist. KZPS was doing that a few months before they flipped...and lo & behold, they're ratings spiked way up....

KDBN is not much different sounding than most classic rock stations anywhere else.

I think the issue is the format itself...its old and tired. When the format -- "AOR oldies" as it was sometimes originally called by some newsletters -- began popping up in the mid-80s, it was playing classic rock music that on average was 10 years old targeting guys in their late 20s and 30s. It just has never evolved...most of them are still mostly playing songs that are now 30 years old to a rapidly aging demo.

When it first came on, KDBN was different than KZPS as it was playing a lot of '80s hair bands plus some 70s and 90s -- and scored an immediate win of KZPS. It then lurched into a more traditional, 1970s-based classic rock playlist. The problem is most of the classic rockers are stuck there.

Most other formats periodically adjust as the audience ages...adult standards/MOR stations today don't play some of the 30s/40s music the format played 20 years ago. Oldies stations today have largely eliminated 50s/early 60s oldies. Most ACs have long phased out 60s music and much of the 70s now; again, 20 years ago, most of them would have played the "best of the 60s, 70s, and 80s". Oldies stations have picked up what ACs have dropped; standards outlets have picked up a lot of the 50s/60s music oldies stations have dropped. For whatever reason, most classic rock stations have never adjusted...they are still largely 70s centered. After 10,000 spins, "Stairway to Heaven" and "More than a Feeling" are going to be worn out for 98% of the audience out there...

 

[little1]

I made the comment here the other day about how how KLUV has moved up their playlist, so I agree with your post re changing music ...

And I saw this post when I was surfing at lunch, and decided to listen to teh Bone on my drive home- I don't remember everything they played, but there was some AC/DC< Bon jovi, Steve Miller, and Stone Temple Pilots...off hand, 80's, 90's, 70's and 90's I'd guess...

Someone last week posted about an hour or two 's worth of music from the Bone, and I seem to remember it showed the same thing - they don't seem to be locked into a particular decade, but are all over 30 years of the map...

And define 'old and tired'. Sure us insiders may be sick of teh same music, but classic rock stations generally do pretty well revenue wise, since most of their audience is that prime 25-54 age group...

 

[txchipk]

I made the comment here the other day about how how KLUV has moved up their playlist, so I agree with your post re changing music ...

And I saw this post when I was surfing at lunch, and decided to listen to teh Bone on my drive home- I don't remember everything they played, but there was some AC/DC< Bon jovi, Steve Miller, and Stone Temple Pilots...off hand, 80's, 90's, 70's and 90's I'd guess...

Someone last week posted about an hour or two 's worth of music from the Bone, and I seem to remember it showed the same thing - they don't seem to be locked into a particular decade, but are all over 30 years of the map...

And define 'old and tired'. Sure us insiders may be sick of teh same music, but classic rock stations generally do pretty well revenue wise, since most of their audience is that prime 25-54 age group...

Must have had bad timing with me and KDBN...it seems like every time I flip by, they are playing a Fleetwood Mac, Boston, or Bad Company song. I don't actually have a problem with "Feel Like Making Love"...I think most folks in 2007 are not passionate about hearing it twice a day every day.

I think the format was doing well 25-54, but I remember reading an article on the problems of oldies stations (when CBS was flipping some of theirs to "Jack FM" clones in other markets) not long ago talking about formats in 25-54 trouble...oldies, smooth jazz, AC, and classic rock. The audiences were reaching a tipping point where they are rapidly aging out of the range or getting close to it. Thus, oldies stations moving to the 70s (and some mixing in 80s) or moving out of the format, ACs getting "Fresh" (like CBS did in New York...or essentially did to KVIL a couple of years ago when the music was made more current and the "Lite FM" name was adopted), smooth jazz disappearing here and some other markets, and so on.

 

[melonhead]

txchipk YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT! The Bone sounds too predictable, too boring and too stuck in the 70's. Playing the hits wont gain them any points when the burn factor on every song isnt so high that people want to punch their radio. There is no element of surprise whatsoever. It's the same top testing 200 songs from the 70s and a sprinkling of hits from 80's/90's, but not enough to make it compelling. Result= boring, dull, old sounding, not exciting. My cd's/ipod are a much better option.

This station sounds like they have no vision of their own. Theyre a bad copy of old school ZPS at best, and zps's ratings had been poor for years. So why copy something that wasnt working?

Plus they still carry the stigma of "rocks harder" even though they haven't used it in years. Which makes every burned out hit a perceptual hypocracy to anyone that ever formed an image of them in their mind. If they want to be percieved as something different than the Scott Strong version of BONE, they should drop the BONE moniker. It sucks anyway.

 

[txchipk]

I think KDBN ought to mix in currents and broaden out...i.e. "everything that rocks." It should retain much of the current audience and could add folks from KDGE (particularly in AM drive when there is no music there).

My guess is nothing will happen for the time being. With KZPS shifting, no dobut they are going to see if they pick up that audience by default in the next few trends.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

The Pd there said "the station should reflect mid America".In other words the same corporate homoginzation.

 

[little1]

This station sounds like they have no vision of their own. Theyre a bad copy of old school ZPS at best, and zps's ratings had been poor for years. So why copy something that wasnt working?

Their ratings were poor but their revenue was great back before the Bone cut into it...
Which gets back into the age-old question, would you rather have ratings or revenue?

And if you say ratings, riddle me this...When was the last time you heard of a station getting flipped because their revenue was great but thier ratings sucked?

And when was the last time a station had decent ratings, but wasn't cutting it dollar wise and got flipped...Isn't that the Smooth Jazz/Moving issue right here in town?

 

[jeff715]

Does anyone think that the rating system might not be 100% accurate? Can you honestly say that you never listened to The Oasis or KDL? I am sure there are some but I can't believe that the current "Top 10" stations actually reflect what most people are listening too. Did you hear anyone you know say "I can't believe The Oasis is gone?" I heard it all over. Who is keeping these diaries anyway? Where do I sign up? ???

 

[little1]

I'm sure it's inaccurate, but it's also the only system still going, so there's not a lot of choice. And, in it's defense, everybody is playing by the same system, so it's not like it's not a level playing field.

And yes, I can say I never listened to The Oasis, and I'm not even sure what station used KDL.

And why do you think the current top 10 isn't what people are actually listening to? Kiss is #1, IIRC, and every pre teen and early teenager I know seems to listen to them...

And it's referenced someplace else on the board- the inaccuracies show themselves the most in teh wile swings from poor sampling...It's entirely possible for a station to go from a 3.0 in one book, to a 1.0 in the next and bounce back to a 3.0...

Now does anybody REALLY think that they lost 2/3rds of their audience for a month (for a trend) or a 3 month period (for a whole book)??? Or that they were teh victim of some poor sampling, 1 station diaries and the like...

 

[Robert Bass]

Oh boy you guys are issuing an invitation to D.E. to come in here and spread more of his so-called esteemed knowledge.

R

 

[txchipk]

Does anyone think that the rating system might not be 100% accurate? Can you honestly say that you never listened to The Oasis or KDL? I am sure there are some but I can't believe that the current "Top 10" stations actually reflect what most people are listening too. Did you hear anyone you know say "I can't believe The Oasis is gone?" I heard it all over. Who is keeping these diaries anyway? Where do I sign up? ???

Well, I work for in the tech industry...folks tend to be very early adopters on stuff (i.e. buying PCs, cell phones, DVD players, satellite TV, iPods, HDTVs, etc. when the products first came out). I can safely say most of them spend little time with local radio...i.e. they burn their own CDs and listen to them on the way to work, listen to their iPod via an adapter in the car, subscribe to one of the satellite services, etc. I can assure you in 1989 when KZEW went to all-Christmas music (and then soft AC KKWM), this was a discussion point around the office. As for the change of KOAI or KKDL, no, there wasn't a discussion at work. I wasn't a KOAI listener neither...Kenny G and old Phil Collins singles are like a kick to the nuts.

At work, there are some middle aged women who still listen to KVIL. The sports stations get some love among guys. But that's about it. Go to lunch with the group and hop into someone's car, it seldom is on local radio. 10-12 years ago, that wasn't true (KDGE 94.5, KTXQ 102.1, KDMX 102.9, KTCK, etc. would have been on). My parents only listen to WRR; they are thinking about satellite since there is nothing else they like (they just turn it off when WRR is running the city council meeting or Sunday church services).

Being a radio geek, if I ask why they don't listen, basically they have been run off. KDGE should be a natural choice for many at work (large pool of guys in their 20s/30s)...they don't care for it as none like the syndicated talk morning show and musically, they can find more cutting edge stuff by poking around on the Internet and look at what new bands are getting downloads that commercial radio ignores or is too slow to discover.

I think satellite radio is only an interim alternative. Once WiMax and other wireless networks are everywhere, it won't be a problem to have an Internet connection anywhere (at work, via your phone device, in your car, etc.) and listen to any source that streams online...whether some far off radio station or Internet only content provider. Right now, satellite is just a means for some to get programming they can't get here (one co-worker wanted access to all the Braves games, for example). Once you have the Internet at your disposal 24/7, satellite and local radio will have a tough time, IMO. The exception may be the local stations that generate original material that hits home locally (i.e. KTCK -- "our teams, our town, our guys"; or KZPS's new format that is playing stuff you can't hear on 99% of the radio stations licensed in this country).

 

[stench]

Does anyone think that the rating system might not be 100% accurate? Can you honestly say that you never listened to The Oasis or KDL? I am sure there are some but I can't believe that the current "Top 10" stations actually reflect what most people are listening too. Did you hear anyone you know say "I can't believe The Oasis is gone?" I heard it all over. Who is keeping these diaries anyway? Where do I sign up? ???

Once WiMax and other wireless networks are everywhere, it won't be a problem to have an Internet connection anywhere (at work, via your phone device, in your car, etc.) and listen to any source that streams online...whether some far off radio station or Internet only content provider.

Personally, I look forward to Wi-Max, however, the Copyright Royalty Board has insured that only the BIG boys will be able to compete...a sad day for independents, NPR and those nuts who just love music and want to share their "thing" online...we will be stuck with Google, Yahoo, Clear Channel, CBS, Starbucks et al to provide us with music content via online, mobile and terrestrial...that's right Google, Starbucks and Yahoo...it's a pac-man game...guess who is going to win? Can you say paradigm shift?

 

[txchipk]

Personally, I look forward to Wi-Max, however, the Copyright Royalty Board has insured that only the BIG boys will be able to compete...a sad day for independents, NPR and those nuts who just love music and want to share their "thing" online...we will be stuck with Google, Yahoo, Clear Channel, CBS, Starbucks et al to provide us with music content via online, mobile and terrestrial...that's right Google, Starbucks and Yahoo...it's a pac-man game...guess who is going to win? Can you say paradigm shift?

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I think that remains to be seen...

For folks that are afraid of new music or different music and prefer to cling to music of when they were younger or of a time when they were happier, the status quo will remain the same. For those that like whatever corporate companies pump out for today's new music, the status quo will remain the same. There will always radio owners with stations like KDBN, KLUV, KMAD-FM, KJKK, KMVK for those clinging to the past or KSCS, KPLX, KHKS, KDMX, etc. for those who want to listen to vanilla music of the present.

Today's wired kids are different..they are finding stuff outside what's on the radio...often independent stuff they find on sites they network with others, iTunes, youTube, etc. Some artists -- in all sorts of genres -- are unsigned or let their stuff get distributed with no strings attach to build followings. So, there is content that can be made available if you are independent. Local talk programing like KTCK isn't really affected. Bonneville has put on an unsigned bands channel on some of its HD2 stations in other markets. So, independents will have a problem if they are trying to start up a classic rock station to play old Boston songs. But, the world doesn't need another classic rock station...

So, if big corporate radio wants to make sure no else can play Boston, Beatles, Kellie Clarkson, or Rascal Flatts but their radio stations in the future, that isn't any different than the current world. To be honest, thank goodness. It opens up competitors to find completely new and different programming and hopefully contain the overplayed and corporate to the corporate channels where they can be isolated to the folks that want it.

With respect to all the big record companies and corporate radio controlling what we hear, if you don't work in radio (and thus didn't have a direct investment in it) and are just a normal consumer on the street, if KEOM, KDBN, KSOC, KSCS, KTYS, KBFB, KLUV, KPLX, KJKK, KDGE, KDMX, KVIL, KKDA-FM, KRNB, KHKS, and KMVK went off the air tomorrow, would your life be impacted? The answer for me and most people I know is a big no. Why? Most of them play oldies of some sort. Most folks have their old favorites on CD or MP3 and listen to that in the car or at the gym or at work. For the new stuff, for the stations targeting younger crowds, they are already learning what's hot and cool online; the days of the local top 40 station or MTV telling them what's cool are over. What a local station could offer is unique local programming (DJs people like, etc.). But, radio is trending to replacing DJs with syndicated programming that is found anywhere. In many markets, the local AC has a syndicated show in AM drive (Whoopi, Bob & Sheri, etc.) plus a syndicated show in PM drive or evenings (John Tesh, Delilah). In many markets, the local urban AC is mostly syndicated shows (Joyner, Harvey, Williams, Baisden, etc.) now. In many markets, the country station is syndicated at night and overnight (Lia, After MidNite, etc.). The reality is, if these all went off the air, the music they did play is easily available elsewhere these days.

The current exception to this is Spanish-language radio, but much of its audience doesn't have options. I seem to recall reading an Arbitron demo breakdown of various formats a couple of years ago. I believe half of the audience to Spanish-language radio doesn't even have a high school degree. If you don't have a degree in this country and have limited or no English skills, you are pretty much going to be damned to minimum wage (or less) work and have limited buying power. So, Internet connectivity and iPods, etc. aren't going to be an option.

 

[MikeShannon914]

Sure, if some of those stations you mentioned signed off, it would affect me. There's still something interesting to me about not knowing what the next song will be, and occasionally being surprised by someone else's choice of songs. It's also a convenience factor--for security purposes, the XM unit seldom remains in the car, same for the .mp3 player and such, and same for CDs and tapes. The radio is always there (well, at last check it was) and is still my primary resource for entertainment...oh, and local news and weather, when you can find it.

You also built a strong argument for something missing in this market, which is an all-80s station. Something that harkens folks back to those better or happier times, and looking at the prized demo out there, 80s pop would seem to meet those expectations of listeners and advertisers. 70s stations (or heavy on 70s music) popped up about 11 years after the decade ended, so using that model, we're about 7 years overdue here. Trying to mix the old with the new (KDMX, KVIL, etc) or the old with the older (KLUV)...they end up pissing me off more than anything. One song I like, perhaps two, then it's surfing time.

 

[little1]

If you've ever done any broad based music research, you'd find that the one problem with a lot of 80's music is that the 'hate' factors are HUGE. In other words, to a large segment of the population, no they really don't want to wang chung tonight. Or no, they really don't want poision to talk dirty to them.

Off hand, you've got the early new-wave-ish, early Edge style synth pop, the hair metal wave, and the rise of chick-pop like Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, etc...None of which has broad based appeal outside their relatively narrow niches...