Dumb Dumb Dumb

[Jersey Maiden]

it sucks being white and male and not having a rock station at all to serve you and struggling throughout town to find one. DHA is no help and neither is the Peak and the Q is only good when it's playing Nirvana or Pearl Jam (Neither of those are classic rock anyway).

F "Q-104.3, DHA, WEFX, WRKI and The Peak" for giving us total crap rock radio.

What don't you and Xcountry like about DHA? Do you prefer alternative or is it because they play classic rock? They play some of the same artists as RXP like STP, RCHP, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, AC/DC, Tom Petty and Foo Fighters to name a few. While I hadthem on my presets for a long time, I never knew what an awesome morning show they had until RXP went belly up. While I want them to come back, I'm thankful there's someone left in the area playing Foo and RCHP. On the other hand, DHA's sister station in Philly, MMR has the same format but sprinkles in alternative artists like Coldplay and Weezer once in a while. I find it weird that DHA isn't doing the same. While they have attracted some RXP listeners (their Middlesex-Somerset-Union share went up by 0.5 in August), you would think that they'd want to get more of them by making their playlist more like MMR's.

I've watched how narrow rock fans have become, and it really pains me.

I wish alternative and hard rock can be on one station but the Balkanization of the format means it will never happen again. I've heard complaints that some of RXP's playlist was out of place but personally, comparing it to Philly's 104.5 (and we're not even getting into subgenre combos like the now defunct Grock and Krock circa 2003), it wasn't broad enough. On the other hand, I don't think Ipods are the only thing breeding an intolerance for anything we don't like. I'm sure it started once presets were invented. I have little patience for commercials so I don't know what I'd do without them. This and "familiar favorites" are getting played to death. It's not a one-way street.

On the other hand, do genre purists really chip away that much at the ratings? I heard Trans Siberian Orchestra a few weeks ago on the Q and was thinking the whole time that it wasn't classic rock but still kept it on until the song was over. If someone likes AC/DC but thinks they don't belong on an alternative station, are they really going to switch because of that?

One more thing about country, it's crossing into a lot of formats these days. AC, CHR, even urban (man Jason Aldean is a beast at rapping!) If it's crossing over to hip hop, that's even more reason to think there would be an audience for country in New York.

What is far more interesting to me is how many non-commercial stations have also ignored those same formats.

Lots of college stations play alternative and dance although those tracks are much more obscure than what commercial ones play. But otherwise, you're right that non coms are mostly ignoring those niche formats.

 

[mikerock]

If someone likes AC/DC but thinks they don't belong on an alternative station, are they really going to switch because of that?

Yes, that is exactly what I did every time AC/DC came on RXP. It was completely ridiculous in the midst of a long set of songs that blended well and fit with the format that a crass classic rock oldie from AC/DC, which has no business being on an alt station would pop-in.

That is the thing with all these rock stations I listed, that they are an oldies format. It is bad enough for young people but I am 45 and I cannot stand it anymore. How many times can you listen to these beat to death songs over and over again. Years ago when stations played these songs they were new and mixed in with allot of new music. Now we get 0 new rock music on these stations except for "The Peak" which gives of few but has moved too far into beat to death classic rock.

 

[TTalkradio1]

WDHA is playing the same songs that they were playing 13 years ago. I'm sick of those songs, and I'm not talking about classic songs.

 

[TonySantiago]

I've watched how narrow rock fans have become, and it really pains me. Rock music used to be a very broad format. Not any more. It's been niched to death. Couple that with total confusion in the music industry, and you get today's rock music, and an unwillingness on the part of radio to support it.

I'm glad you said it and I didn't.

Okay, I don't hate rock and will never bash on it but admittedly I'm not into it. However, and these are based on talks from rock fans, there is such a divide on what people consider "real" rock or not. Some may think of everything before 1975 as pure rock with everything else that came after it as crap. Some folks love the alternative sound more. And that's the problem right there.

And if this sounds like a familiar mantra on my part, I felt that way with 'KTU back in 1996 whereas I felt they should have played more current dance versus those wanted it to remain with the classic disco/freestyle aspect. In hindsight I was wrong to have done that and since apologized to Frankie Blue and Jeff Z (the PD's) for that. But at least the station lasted with that format for 10 years before they turned into what they are now.

I think a station like 'RXP (and please correct me if I am wrong) tried to go everywhere for everyone and in the processing of doing so, most people didn't support it. You have those that wanted more Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin and then you had those that wanted more grunge, Guns N' Roses, etc. And then there were those that wanted more alternative. Because of that, rock became "niched" whereas you have classic rock stations, alternative stations instead of one broad station that everyone supports.

In that sense, I have to give credit to WPDH (Poughkeepsie). They keep it honest with classic rock but they also keep it current too and I haven't heard of any complaints. They may be the only AOR oriented station in the Hudson Valley but at least they are keeping it broad as opposed to going one direction or another.

I also think another rock "revolution" is needed. The last one I can remember was grunge (early 90's). There definitely is more out there, but as you said BigA, everything became niched and people have their specific interests at hand instead of looking at the big picture.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

If someone likes AC/DC but thinks they don't belong on an alternative station, are they really going to switch because of that?

Yes, that is exactly what I did every time AC/DC came on RXP. It was completely ridiculous in the midst of a long set of songs that blended well and fit with the format that a crass classic rock oldie from AC/DC, which has no business being on an alt station would pop-in.

That is the thing with all these rock stations I listed, that they are an oldies format. It is bad enough for young people but I am 45 and I cannot stand it anymore. How many times can you listen to these beat to death songs over and over again. Years ago when stations played these songs they were new and mixed in with allot of new music. Now we get 0 new rock music on these stations except for "The Peak" which gives of few but has moved too far into beat to death classic rock.

That's an unfair thing to say about DHA. They play new songs from Foo Fighters, Shinedown, Chickenfoot, and Black Stone Cherry (I'm not going to spend all day naming current artists they have). But I agree with you that there's an oversaturation of classic rock and I would have preferred RXP to have it in smaller portions in favor of more punk and alternative artists like 104.5 does. That said, DHA advertises the fact that they play old and new rock so they have to include the classics. And I discovered a lot of classics I liked through RXP. The funny thing is that genre purists don't seem to hurt the Q. They still get high numbers when they veer outside the format.

 

[Dick Skinner]

I'm a 27, and I haven't listened to FM radio in years. I listen to AM radio though, but only a couple of shows.

Well, there you go!

 

[SAYWOT]

Just checked. The Peak is #2 adults 25-54 (and beating Q handily) in Westchester County with better than an 8 share (Dec PPM.) In the Westchester/Rockland combo they are #3 25-54 adults and virtually tied with Q. It would seem that whatever they are doing is working as they are beating everybody but Q and 'KTU 25-54 where they have a usable signal. Would more alt and no classic rock make them number one?

 

[mikerock]

Just checked. The Peak is #2 adults 25-54 (and beating Q handily) in Westchester County with better than an 8 share (Dec PPM.) In the Westchester/Rockland combo they are #3 25-54 adults and virtually tied with Q. It would seem that whatever they are doing is working as they are beating everybody but Q and 'KTU 25-54 where they have a usable signal. Would more alt and no classic rock make them number one?

There you go, the only station playing a few new songs is doing pretty well. So it is nonsense when people say that NY is not a rock town or stations that play new rock cannot make it in NY,

 

[TheBigA]

So it is nonsense when people say that NY is not a rock town or stations that play new rock cannot make it in NY,

The Peak is not in NYC.

 

[MarcR]

it sucks being white and male and not having a rock station at all to serve you...

Where in the Bill of Rights are white males guaranteed rock-oriented musical gratification?

Since you won't find that guarantee, it must simply be that there are too few like you to justify someone investing in a radio station to do what you want.

Chill, hoist a cold one and download some tunes you like. Enjoy.

And David needn't worry that Hispanics will flee from terrestrial radio because it's the college graduates who aren't listening as much, and Hispanics lag far behind the rest of the country in educational attainment.

 

[davideduardo]

And David needn't worry that Hispanics will flee from terrestrial radio because it's the college graduates who aren't listening as much, and Hispanics lag far behind the rest of the country in educational attainment.

Considering that less than 30% of the US population 25 and older has a college degree, that means that 75% of the population will continue to listen "a lot?"

Many of those "college grad" studies are so poorly designed that they are the equivalent of doing a written survey on literacy.

Many people who are not college grads say they are due to the supposed social stigma of not having a sheepskin. I used to be rather proud of not having a degree but that is somewhat of an exception, I found.

 

[letreg]

Been listening to 91.5 WNYE in the mornings for alternative.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

A few random regional thoughts, if I may ......

The only real accumulation of sheepskin in these parts are the coats sold at the chief subsidizing sponsor of downstate WWSM 1510 (a country station, if that's actually necessary to say ......

Was at the Columbia Mall in Buckhorn a few days ago at a Perkins for lunch. Just outside Bloomsburg. Across the turnpike, good location, was a big but closed chain eatery. Next to Perkins, which is slow and pricey itself, was a Home Depot with about six cars in the lot. Across the highway behind the closed restaurant was -- go figure -- a Lowe's -- with about six cars parked there, too. If these megaliths are being crammed down the throats of local shoppers and merchants *in an unrated county*, where does the competition siege END? ........

These conglomerate chains have inundated our own little stretch of home, too. In St. Clair -- SAINT CLAIR, population 3000 -- there is also a Lowes and a Home Depot. And a Wal-Mart. Two local hardware stores (ironically an Ace and a True-Value, former corporate opponents themselves) no longer exist. A third source, for decades a private place, has maybe 1/10th of the traffic it used to have. Yeah, it's real nice to have a big chain/big warranty place nearby. But the siege always seems to end with several thousand people being but out of work when the marketers cover up their blundering projections by closing THOSE places. And, I reiterate, Pottsville-St.Clair-Frackville-Shenandoah is ALSO an unrated market ......

WPAM Pottsville (Phoenix 1450 now for several years) is currently running what sounds like 50 watts and playing some form of Suicide Metal. Whatever the music is called makes the old Z-Rock 1480 in New York sound like WVNJ by comparison. WPAM is right across the parking lot from a big coed high school and is being completely ignored and unsupported. Evidently there is *nothing* going on to link young people and radio in this region -- that is, if WPAM's musical fare per se is considered by any stretch to be the Fillmore North in these parts ......

Can't help but believe that a good deal of blame should be shipped in a leased Lowes or Wal-Mart 36-wheeler and dumped at the ornate doors of the music industry -- which has become conglomerated in much the same way ; you know, legislating and regimenting our leisure time as well as our time on the clock, for crying out loud. Independent labels and other promising grass-roots acts have about as much of a chance of making a living as that former True-Value does (now a thrift shop). The kids have to sense this avarice, if they're not convinced of it already. Consider once more that this boardroom-oriented approach to entertainment and leisure is nationwide ; by no means limited just to major markets ......

Migrations work both ways. Just as radio and TV and other fields have reached the dubious point at which nothing is apt to go back ..... no more one-spot exclusitivity .... no more 12-17 mass appeal/double-digit pop music as a generational reference .... no more Standards, 50's and jazz ....... so will the migration of youth, away from radio altogether, be a constant. That contempt is apt to grow, more and more alarming, with each graduating class .....

You're not alone in your exasperation, Jake Hirsch. But by going through this thread you'll at least pick up a few reasons why that exasperation exists ......

 

[TheBigA]

You're not alone in your exasperation, Jake Hirsch. But by going through this thread you'll at least pick up a few reasons why that exasperation exists ......

That "exasperation" can be measured in the power of, to paraphrase Moody Blues, 10 million butterfly sneazes. Ah-choo.

When the "migration" becomes noticable, you'll see "pirate" formats attempting to entice them. That's how the system works. The pendulum swings one way, and then it swings the other. Wherever you see a big crowd of people gathering, you'll see an insurance salesman looking to make a deal.

It's not that people in radio are "dumb, dumb, dumb." They have a choice to make. They can't be all things to all people, because there aren't enough radio stations to make everyone happy. And it's not personal, it's business. So they focus on the formats most likely to make an impact. If you find what you like from among what's there, this is a non-issue. If not, then you find alternatives. By the way, the Perkins in my neighborhood just shut down.

 

[BobSmolarek]

I think the big problem is that rock is really not mainstream at all anymore. Where are the U2's, the Aerosmith's, and the Stone Temple Pilots of today? Not only are there not stations playing them, but if you go out to a ballgame, the only rock you'll hear is some ancient rock. I don't even hear from groups like Hoobastank or Evanesance anymore. What happened to rock? I'd say it's a dead fringe format. Country is much more mainstream, I don't listen to it but I know Toby Keith, Kenny Chesney, Taylor Swift, Trace Atkins and Jason Aldean.

 

[TonySantiago]

And David needn't worry that Hispanics will flee from terrestrial radio because it's the college graduates who aren't listening as much, and Hispanics lag far behind the rest of the country in educational attainment.

Is there ever a moment in your life where you really need to put a sock in your mouth or something? And this does fit in this thread because what was stated just now was "dumb dumb dumb"

 

[MarcR]

And David needn't worry that Hispanics will flee from terrestrial radio because it's the college graduates who aren't listening as much, and Hispanics lag far behind the rest of the country in educational attainment.

Is there ever a moment in your life where you really need to put a sock in your mouth or something? And this does fit in this thread because what was stated just now was "dumb dumb dumb"

Admittedly, I wasn't particularly proud of that post, but I was so put off by what I perceived as arrogance on David's part that I decided to go for the jugular. Since David has such a passion for Spanish language radio, that for me constituted the jugular. I apologize to those who took offense to it.

 

[TonySantiago]

And David needn't worry that Hispanics will flee from terrestrial radio because it's the college graduates who aren't listening as much, and Hispanics lag far behind the rest of the country in educational attainment.

Is there ever a moment in your life where you really need to put a sock in your mouth or something? And this does fit in this thread because what was stated just now was "dumb dumb dumb"

Admittedly, I wasn't particularly proud of that post, but I was so put off by what I perceived as arrogance on David's part that I decided to go for the jugular.

Okay. That's fair. I'm cool now with your apology.

Admittedly David states his opinion strongly. But I will say this...if there is ANYONE that I give major props to for his subject, I give it hands down to DavidEduardo (Gleason). Even if I don't agree with his postings, I'll never argue against him because he does know Spanish radio. The only other people I'll never argue on is Scott Fybush since he knows the technical aspects of radio and John Parker, who has been in the dance music industry long enough to know his stuff and to that I respect him.

 

[davideduardo]

Admittedly, I wasn't particularly proud of that post, but I was so put off by what I perceived as arrogance on David's part that I decided to go for the jugular. Since David has such a passion for Spanish language radio, that for me constituted the jugular. I apologize to those who took offense to it.

I'm now curious how it is arrogant to state that formats that a few posters want but which are not on the air in a particular local market is due to the economic reality of radio.

The original poster was, in my opinion, arrogant. He asked where the fairness was in not having his particular mix of rock available to him. If he looked out the window on a drive around NYC, he could see the answer himself...

I'm sure somebody has an indoor pool in Fairbanks, but there is likely no need for a bunch of pool supply stores in the market. It's just economics.

And unlike years past, there are plenty of alternatives online and via downloads and satellite.

 

[mikerock]

Admittedly, I wasn't particularly proud of that post, but I was so put off by what I perceived as arrogance on David's part that I decided to go for the jugular. Since David has such a passion for Spanish language radio, that for me constituted the jugular. I apologize to those who took offense to it.

I'm now curious how it is arrogant to state that formats that a few posters want but which are not on the air in a particular local market is due to the economic reality of radio.

The original poster was, in my opinion, arrogant. He asked where the fairness was in not having his particular mix of rock available to him. If he looked out the window on a drive around NYC, he could see the answer himself...

I'm sure somebody has an indoor pool in Fairbanks, but there is likely no need for a bunch of pool supply stores in the market. It's just economics.

And unlike years past, there are plenty of alternatives online and via downloads and satellite.

NYC radio covers outlying surrounding counties in Staten Island and Manhattan, New Jersey, Long Island, Rockland/Westchester where non-Hispanic whites maintain a majority. The areas where the population is more equalized or minority status for non-Hispanic whites is in Brooklyn/Queens around about 32-34% and the Bronx 14%.

To stereotype and claim that all non-Hispanic whites or other groups do not listen to rock or alternative is ridiculous. You have people that have been here for generations and not everyone in these groups has migrated recently thus only listens to Spanish language, Latino or Rythmic format. Now add back a percentage of these groups and you still have a significant majority for the rock or alternative formats.

Just look at the ratings for Q104.3 with a 4.5 share in October and WRXP had a 3.6 share in making them the sixth largest station in the 18-49 group. If we go by your post about demographics then this should never have happened. The only reason WRXP does not exist is because Emmis needed the cash and sold it.

To take it a step further, if you look at the FM formats the majority seem to be geared towards women regardless of race. Q104.3 is essentially an oldies station for the 45+ crowd. So maybe the OP who says he is a white 30 year old male is in fact under-represented.