Dumb Dumb Dumb

[Jake Hirsch]

It kicked the pants off of RXP because it's established and familiar. Playing "The Sweater Song" from Weezer although not common these days...isn't that earthshattering.

K-Rock isn't around anymore because it was treated like a CHR station. I'm sorry...but Coldplay has no place on a ROCK station. K-Rock played them almost hourly. Don't kid yourself. K-Rock isn't around anymore NOT because of Q..but because of themselves.

"For every one person who says "Q104 sucks," there are five people who listen every day" SO? For every ONE person who uses "there, their and they're" correctly, hundreds of thousands of people don't.

At the end of the day the discussion is NOT about personal taste. It's about a market saturated with flowers and smiley thoughts. Where are the tattoos and guns? People like tattoos and guns.

 

[Jake Hirsch]

Too much time has passed for rock radio to make changes now. These changes may have worked over ten years ago.

You sir get a gold star

 

[TheBigA]

It kicked the pants off of RXP because it's established and familiar.

That's what radio is all about. Radio is about numbers. Not music.

Had K-Rock tried to be like WRXP, it would have suffered the same fate. In fact, it did. Proving there is no substantial audience for that kind of music. And that's why I don't expect another station to attempt RXP's format.

At the end of the day the discussion is NOT about personal taste. It's about a market saturated with flowers and smiley thoughts. Where are the tattoos and guns? People like tattoos and guns.

That IS personal taste.

By the way, I see tattoos and guns at country concerts. I had an interesting day watching the police at the Chesney show at the Meadowlands. When Uncle Kracker breaks into "Cowboy," everyone sings along.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

I think the big problem is that rock is really not mainstream at all anymore. Where are the U2's, the Aerosmith's, and the Stone Temple Pilots of today? Not only are there not stations playing them, but if you go out to a ballgame, the only rock you'll hear is some ancient rock. I don't even hear from groups like Hoobastank or Evanesance anymore. What happened to rock? I'd say it's a dead fringe format. Country is much more mainstream, I don't listen to it but I know Toby Keith, Kenny Chesney, Taylor Swift, Trace Atkins and Jason Aldean.

It depends on which subgenre you look at. This year, the only alternative band I can think of that made it to Z100 was Foster the People. Once in a while it does happen (like with Snow Patrol's Chasing Cars getting on Lite FM and Ingrid Michaelson getting played on 102.7). But when it comes to active rock, more of those bands have crossover success. Bands like Daughtry and Nickelback make one set of songs for lite stations but also make their share of hard stuff that get played by the likes of DHA and MMR. It's a smart move on their part.

You might not agree with or like Merlin's execution of a news format. However, they are not dumb people. They did their research.

I'm sure the people at Merlin have looked at the data David Eduardo often brings up on FM spoken word stations but more importantly, Randy Michaels has said it was his favorite format. Based on their ratings however, it's clear that they (particularly Walter Sabo) have not done their research on what women want to hear. But as much as I hate Michaels for taking RXP away, I have a grudging respect for him since he didn't overanalyze the format like a typical consultant or programming director. He started Merlin primarily because he's genuinely passionate about spoken word.

K-Rock isn't around anymore because it was treated like a CHR station. I'm sorry...but Coldplay has no place on a ROCK station. K-Rock played them almost hourly.

What era are you talking about? The 2003-05 period where they played both alternative and active rock or the later years when they were primarily active? In either case, playing what doesn't belong isn't an automatic kiss of death. Philly's WMMR is primarily active but plays Coldplay once in a while. And they're still in the top 5.

Had K-Rock tried to be like WRXP, it would have suffered the same fate. In fact, it did.

What? ??? The first time I tuned into RXP after K-rock died, I noticed a big difference.

 

[oldies76]

That's what radio is all about. Radio is about numbers. Not music.

Not music?? Not talk shows?? Not sports?? Not News?? Really??

And the Beatles had no number one singles either, I get it.

Television isn't for the "The Price is Right" too, I assume then.

 

[TheBigA]

Not music?? Not talk shows?? Not sports?? Not News?? Really??

You don't seem to understand what I mean.

Radio is about the music, talk, sports, and news that helps it achieve ratings and sales numbers. If it's great music but doesn't attract the kind of audiences that lead to ratings or sales, they skip it.

 

[mikerock]

In Philadelphia for example, three of the top 7 stations are a flavor of rock. People talk about the demise of RXP but they were doing well the last year but the fact is Emmis needed cash. So I would not so quick to rule out alternative coming back to NYC by blaming it on a failed format.

I pointed out in an earlier post about most of the FM formats being female oriented, 45+ male and posted the population demographics that prove there is something to what the OP is saying about the lack of a format catering to a 30 year old white. Yet the response I get back is about AM news/talk which is still older demographics, not music and is AM not FM.

The numbers tell a different story as well as the execution and histories of these stations like K-Rock and RXP.

 

[TheBigA]

In Philadelphia for example, three of the top 7 stations are a flavor of rock.

That's Philadelphia. I've lived & worked in both places, and I can tell you there's a big difference.

People talk about the demise of RXP but they were doing well the last year but the fact is Emmis needed cash. So I would not so quick to rule out alternative coming back to NYC by blaming it on a failed format.

If the format wasn't a failure, the new owners would have kept it. That's usually what happens when a new owner buys a station. Not the case here. If you read all of the comments in this thread, and try to build a format around what people want, you'll see quickly why rock has trouble in NYC: Everyone wants something different, and not enough people are willing to sit through music they don't like in order to hear music they do like. Q104 has put together a mix that works for a large enough group of people to make it work, and edge out any new competitor who might try to shave off a portion of the rock audience.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

People talk about the demise of RXP but they were doing well the last year but the fact is Emmis needed cash. So I would not so quick to rule out alternative coming back to NYC by blaming it on a failed format.

If the format wasn't a failure, the new owners would have kept it. That's usually what happens when a new owner buys a station. Not the case here. If you read all of the comments in this thread, and try to build a format around what people want, you'll see quickly why rock has trouble in NYC: Everyone wants something different, and not enough people are willing to sit through music they don't like in order to hear music they do like. Q104 has put together a mix that works for a large enough group of people to make it work, and edge out any new competitor who might try to shave off a portion of the rock audience.

No, it's because the new owner is headed by a man who stated that his favorite format is spoken word. And WEMP is getting less than half of RXP's numbers. Sean Ross in the article I brought up said that a more orthodox distillation of RXP's format can get decent ratings. Randy Michaels doesn't seem like the usual radio CEO so you can't paint broad strokes about trends based on what he does.

 

[mikerock]

In Philadelphia for example, three of the top 7 stations are a flavor of rock.

That's Philadelphia. I've lived & worked in both places, and I can tell you there's a big difference.

People talk about the demise of RXP but they were doing well the last year but the fact is Emmis needed cash. So I would not so quick to rule out alternative coming back to NYC by blaming it on a failed format.

If the format wasn't a failure, the new owners would have kept it. That's usually what happens when a new owner buys a station. Not the case here. If you read all of the comments in this thread, and try to build a format around what people want, you'll see quickly why rock has trouble in NYC: Everyone wants something different, and not enough people are willing to sit through music they don't like in order to hear music they do like. Q104 has put together a mix that works for a large enough group of people to make it work, and edge out any new competitor who might try to shave off a portion of the rock audience.

Merlin was looking for a stations in multiple markets for their news/talk format. So regardless how RXP was doing they had no intention of keeping whatever the format was on the stations they were buying.

The problem you are describing is exact the programming mistake that RXP made with the format over the first few years. They eventually reduced that problem significantly to only adding Classic rock tracks to the mix that did not fit the format to once every 1.5 to 2 hours. This is when the ratings significantly improved. Had nothing to do with Alternative Rock or Classic rock itself, you just really can't mix alternative and Classic rock bands like AC/DC.

Q104.3 is going to seal their own fate while killing the genre by not adding in new AOR to attract the younger generations. They are riding high now but it will not last.

 

[TheBigA]

Merlin was looking for a stations in multiple markets for their news/talk format. So regardless how RXP was doing they had no intention of keeping whatever the format was on the stations they were buying.

There was a WRXP death watch on this board from the day the station signed on. Dozens of threads about the failure of the format, the failure of its execution, endless criticism of the air personalities, management, music mix, on and on and on. The only question was when it was going to go away. So it was a failed format. Had Cumulus bought it, I have no reason to believe they would have kept the rock format.

 

[mikerock]

Merlin was looking for a stations in multiple markets for their news/talk format. So regardless how RXP was doing they had no intention of keeping whatever the format was on the stations they were buying.

There was a WRXP death watch on this board from the day the station signed on. Dozens of threads about the failure of the format, the failure of its execution, endless criticism of the air personalities, management, music mix, on and on and on. The only question was when it was going to go away. So it was a failed format. Had Cumulus bought it, I have no reason to believe they would have kept the rock format.

As I pointed it out they had those problems for quite awhile but came along way fixing them and the ratings improved. You start off correctly with "failure of its execution" then go right back to "failed format". It was clearly the execution and not a "failed format" reflective of a problem with "alternative rock" since the station did improve.

One could say that maybe if they had fixed the problems sooner RXP would not have been the property sold off but regardless they had to sell one of their NY properties. Considering Emmis's other NYC properties had long standing built audiences, RXP was probably going to be sold to Merlin no matter how well it was performing. Just as Merlin wanted spoken word in all 3 markets regardless of whatever formats these stations carried with the prior owner.

 

[TheBigA]

As I pointed it out they had those problems for quite awhile but came along way fixing them and the ratings improved. You start off correctly with "failure of its execution" then go right back to "failed format". It was clearly the execution and not a "failed format" reflective of a problem with "alternative rock" since the station did improve.

My view is that in the particular situation of New York City, competing in this marketplace, the station was both a failure in execution, and a failed format. It was both.

The thing that is missing in New York is a heritage rock station. That's what you have in most cities. That's really what you need in order for the format to work properly. Only a heritage station has the credibility and the established audience to mix artists and songs in a way that listeners will accept. After studying WRXP for its entire run, and now doing the same with WEMP, I am at a point of wondering if it's possible to launch a new station with a new format in a market like New York City. Unless the station has heritage, credibility, and an established audience, it will be a long, uphill struggle.

 

[TTalkradio1]

TheBigA said

"For every one person who says "Q104 sucks," there are five people who listen every day"

How do you know?

 

[TheBigA]

TheBigA said

"For every one person who says "Q104 sucks," there are five people who listen every day"

How do you know?

The ratings. They are one of the most listened-to stations in NYC.

 

[TonySantiago]

I'm going to come up with an admittedly crazy theory here, in terms of why rock WILL be popular again in another 10 years or so. Yeah it's crazy so just humor me on this

The backhanded reason why dance music is popular right now is because over 12 years ago, a video game came out that was hugely popular, "Dance, Dance Revolution". Kids and young adults were following the arrows and they were trying to match the dance moves on the screen. With that you had a lot of energetic dance music that you could choose. Somehow, that brand stuck and a lot of the young kids that became young adults (20-35) have stuck with the rhythmic sounds. That eventually made an influence on radio on a commercial level.

Fast forward to a few years ago with another video game that took off big....."Guitar Hero". There was such demand for this game as younger folks were mimicing guitar strungs with rock music in the background. The game took on a fever pitch. That exposed kids to rock since that one poster addressed people "tuned out" (good post BTW). Maybe, and perhaps this can come as early as 2017 or so, rock can have a new sound that would be considered revolutionary.

It just has to take an acceptance and support from everyone (young and old) to make it work.

I know, crazy theory but I stand by it!

 

[mikerock]

6:26 PM "UNDER THE BRIDGE [ALBUM VERS" - RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS
6:22 PM "MIDNIGHT CITY" - M83 buy on iTunes
6:18 PM "WHITE WEDDING" - BILLY IDOL buy on iTunes
6:11 PM "A PRAISE CHORUS" - JIMMY EAT WORLD buy on iTunes
6:07 PM "MAN IN THE BOX" - ALICE IN CHAINS buy on iTunes
6:02 PM "RUNNIN' DOWN A DREAM" - TOM PETTY buy on iTunes
5:59 PM "FUNNY THE WAY IT IS" - DAVE MATTHEWS BAND buy on iTunes
5:56 PM "DUMB" - NIRVANA buy on iTunes
5:52 PM "BORN TO RUN" - BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN buy on iTunes
5:48 PM "COUGH SYRUP" - YOUNG THE GIANT buy on iTunes
5:44 PM "ALL OVER YOU" - LIVE buy on iTunes
5:40 PM "T-N-T" - AC/DC

If you want a good laugh here is the current myrxp.com web stream. M82, AC/DC = LOL. Looks like the same clowns who were programming WRXP format are programming the web site like they were in the old days disaster of a format. I guess they never learned from their mistake.

 

[Jersey Maiden]

Merlin was looking for a stations in multiple markets for their news/talk format. So regardless how RXP was doing they had no intention of keeping whatever the format was on the stations they were buying.

There was a WRXP death watch on this board from the day the station signed on. Dozens of threads about the failure of the format, the failure of its execution, endless criticism of the air personalities, management, music mix, on and on and on. The only question was when it was going to go away. So it was a failed format. Had Cumulus bought it, I have no reason to believe they would have kept the rock format.

Look at Randy Michaels' comment on the launch of WIQI: "My favorite format has always been spoken radio. I've long had a nostalgic love affair with the big AM stations known for the format, and today – as music moves to the iPod – it's time for spoken word to move to FM. I'm proud to be part of Chicago's only 24-hour all-news station."

Despite WEMP's playlist being similar to PLJ's, I doubt that Merlin would have kept the format. Of course you can't prove what would have happened if PLJ went up for sale before RXP but this sounds like a man who would have flipped any station he got his hands on no matter what the format.

You might also want to look at these thoughts (full article here: http://www.radio-info.com/programming/programming-music/wrong-headed-talk-about-rock)

The loss, a few weeks ago, of Alternative WKQX (Q101) Chicago and WRXP New York, is more concerning for the industry. But even those changes have to be viewed in terms of their new owner’s priorities. You don’t launch two All-News FMs and hire a hundred staffers if you’re looking for the easiest opportunity. Country in New York would have guaranteed a decent living. A slightly less unorthodox distillation of WRXP could have made a new owner look pretty smart. So the agenda here wasn’t just to escape the Alternative format.

 

[TheBigA]

You're talking about Merlin. I'm talking about the alternative format. WRXP tried a series of approaches to the format, and none of them did well. As I said, there was a death watch on this board. It had nothing to do with Merlin. It had everything to do with Emmis and WRXP. Once Emmis put it on the block, it didn't matter who bought it. The format was going to change. Because either it was going to be bought by someone with an agenda (like ESPN or Merlin) or an owner that needed better ratings than he could expect from the alternative format.

There is no heritage station with this kind of format in NYC. So anyone who attempts it can't start with a heritage audience, and lacks the credibility to be able to mix musical styles into a format the majority of rock listeners will accept. I think that hurts any unique or untried format, including country.

 

[MarcR]

TheBigA said

"For every one person who says "Q104 sucks," there are five people who listen every day"

How do you know?

It seems that virtually every 7-11 I visit has Q-104.3 playing in the background, which might help explain why it performs so well under the PPM regime.