I have heard that all TV sets built after 03/01/07 must come with an HDTV tuner. Does that also apply to VCR's and DVD recorders too built after that date? Also, will most TV stations increase their transmitting power after the analog cutoff date for a wider coverage area than presently?
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DVD RECORDERS WITH HDTV TUNERS
- Thread starter alg2468
- Start date
alg2468 said:
All sets imported into the US or shipped in interstate commerce. Yes, that also applies to VCRs and DVD recorders.
(if you expect to use a TV with cable/satellite or a VCR/DVD only, this is a good time to buy. They're trying to get the last analog-only sets sold. Wal-Mart here was selling a 13" analog-only color TV for under $50 last week! The digital sets are now down to $178.)
I think most TV stations are taking a wait-and-see attitude towards power upgrades. Many stations are already operating at maximum permissible power (1000kw) on UHF and *can't* increase. Other stations will be changing channel (especially from UHF to channels 7-13) after the analogs are shut down, and may be waiting to see what other stations will affect their ability to increase power. Some smaller stations (home shopping etc.) are probably running just enough power to comply with principal community coverage regulations and don't care about over-the-air viewership at all.
Actually it is the "HDTV Ready" sets without the tuner that are getting cheap. The ones with tuners are still expensive. But in a few months the prices should begin to drop. As far as channel assignments, I thought that the idea was to free spectrum space for other uses, thus most VHF stations are moving to UHF. But there are some that are moving only 6 MHz up, from say VHF channel 8 to VHF channel 9. How is that freeing up VHF spectrum?w9wi said:
The spectrum is being freed up by having all remaining DTV stations, after the February 2009 "analog sunset", operate within the DTV Core channels 2 through 51 (sans 37*). Everything above 698 MHz is being permanently removed from the TV service. Today, there are stations operating on all channels from 2 through 69, although many stations, especially LPTV stations, have been relocated to somewhere below 52.
(*) 37 is, and will continue to be, vacated for radio astronomy use
(*) 37 is, and will continue to be, vacated for radio astronomy use
Johnathan said:
Ok,my apologies, Johnathan. I just got hold of the 116 page FCC allocations and regs and I apologize for not understanding...tis very complicated and makes no sense to newcomers to the process such as me,...but no woories, methinks I get it now
Here are the FINAL allocations for LA (in case anyone besides me cares):
Huntington Beach *48
Long Beach 18
Los Angeles 7, 9, 11, 13, *28, 31, 34, 36, *41, 42, 43
Actually it reminds me a bit of the 1941 NARBA reallocation of radio frequencies, but that belongs to the classic radio board, not here!
ercjncpr said:
The $178 set did have a (digital) tuner. On the other hand, it was standard-definition and 4:3 aspect ratio. Wal-Mart has had SD sets with digital tuners in the $210 vicinity since around Christmas.
HD sets have come down quite a bit too, but they're nowhere near the $200 mark yet.
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In general, what's happening with the channel allotments is that things are being compressed into a narrower band. Instead of TV occupying channels 2-69, after 2009 it will be squeezed into channels 2-51. Channels 52-69 are being freed up. No *VHF* spectrum will be freed - but plenty of UHF will be.
My suspicion is...
- Broadcasters wanted to keep the VHF channels, where less power is necessary to achieve the same coverage.
- Land mobile services (the people who'll be buying channels 52-69 at auction) wanted more UHF channels (where smaller antennas can be used) and didn't really want VHF channels. (where the antennas are bigger and interference is worse)
w9wi said:
In the Chicago market, most TV stations are keeping their digital channels (where they have a choice). The exceptions are with WLS-TV, where they're currently on ch 52 for digital, and must go back to 7 for digital. WYIN must stay on 17 since their analog is on 56. I remember initially, it was only 60 - 69 that was going to be eliminated, and even then, WYIN wanted to keep 17 because the frequency for 17 covers a slightly larger area with less power. WGBO & WXFT each will lose both their analog & digital channels, and will have to go into round 2 to find a different channel. WBBM-TV wants out of the VHF Low band completely, and originally asked for ch 11 once WTTW vacates the channel in 2009. But either the request was denied by the FCC, or WBBM-TV withdrew their request. They might participate in round 2 to try and get a different channel, since 2 doesn't always have a good picture on analog, and is even worse for digital, and their digital is on 3.
Last I remember, this would be the digital lineup for stations in Chicago, but didn't include the subchannels:
7 WLS-TV
17 WYIN (only viewable in NW Indiana & south suburbs)
19 WGN-TV
21 WYCC
27 WCIU*
29 WMAQ-TV
31 WFLD
36 WJYS (The digital channel is a full market signal, where their analog only covers NW Indiana & South suburbs of Chicago)
43 WCPX
45 WSNS
51 WPWR (?)
WGBO will have to go to round 2
WXFT will have to go to round 2
I believe WBBM-TV will go to round 2 as well, since they don't like 2 or 3.
*As for WCIU, they have LP stations WWME-CA on 27.2 & WFBT-CA on 27.3, and not sure if they'll keep those simulcasts on the subchannels or not.
Dave said:
Permanent channels:
WBBM 11 (a conflict was resolved by technical modification of the application)
WMAQ 29
WLS 7
WGN 19
WTTW 47 (this was finalized when WBBM's conflict on channel 11 was resolved)
WYCC 21
WCIU 27
WFLD 31
WWTO 10
WCPX 43
WSNS 45
WPWR 51
WYIN 17
WXFT 50 (not approved yet. Has also filed for channel 38 contingent upon negociations with another station, presumably WGBO. Aren't WGBO and WXFT co-owned? - which would make successful negociations a done deal, except WGBO can't give up channel 38 unless it can get channel 12.)
WJYS 36
WGBO 38 (not approved yet. Has also filed for channel 12 contingent upon negociations with another station, presumably WINM Angola, Ind.. WISN Milwaukee will be remaining on channel 34.)
LP stations: (permits, unless otherwise noted)
WOCK 12 (analog 13) (this is a -CA, so maybe *this* is the station WGBO must negociate with to get channel 12?)
WWME 39 (analog 23)
W24AJ 22 (TBN, Aurora, ch. 24 analog)
WSPY 18 (Plano; ch. 30 analog)
W40BY 40 (TBN, Palatine; to flash-cut on existing channel)
W54BE 40 (Sugar Grove, ch. 54 analog; application, not yet approved)
W57DN 30 (TBN, Elgin, ch. 57 analog)
WCHU 49 (analog 61; application, not yet approved)
It will be interesting to see the landslide toward UHF by the few VHF DT's once they realize that every time lightning strikes, the picture pixels out & the audio drops until it re-locks. This happens on WISH TV Indy's DT 9 at 35 miles. Their Local Weather Station in on one of their HD channels & is picked up by the Columbus cable system. During severe weather--when you need it most--the Local Weather Station on the cable is unwatchable. Lightning causes greater problems as the frequency drops. When enough people start watching the DT signals over the air, the complaints will roll in & VHF DT will become a very unfavorable place to be. Severe weather season starts Sunday...find a VHF DT & watch what happens when lightning strikes. Then find a UHF & watch...there's no comparison. We have no 2-6DT's here, but that will be the worst place to be if you're a DT. It amazes me that they designed this stuff in a lab & didn't take lightning into account...
Rain fade hasn't been a problem here, but enhanced ground wave & ducting have taken stuff at 70 miles that's normally solid & made it disappear for hours at a time. HDTV may not need strong signal levels, but it does need an almost total lack of interference...another thing that wasn't taken into account in the lab with the signal generator hooked straight to the TV...
Over the weekend I was in Wal Mart and noticed that they have begun selling SDTVs in the same price range as analog sets, starting at about $50.00 for a 13 inch set. Some of the signs that said SDTV were on sets that didn't have the SDTV logo on the box, but I'm assuming that as those sets sell off they will be replaced with SDTV models. It does seem misleading though to be putting the SDTV signs up on older sets, so it defininely pays to read closely before buying. The lowest priced set that I actually did see the SDTV logo on for now was a 20 inch set for about $100.00. I'd expect more SDTV sets to be available as time goes on though.
Not only that - but they have now placed warning labels on analog-only sets (only because the FCC has forced the issue).
The good news appears to be that there are now DVD recorders with SDTV/EDTV tuners. I think there will (eventually) be DVD recorders with HDTV tuners, but they are still too expensive for Wal-Mart's price range at this time.
The good news appears to be that there are now DVD recorders with SDTV/EDTV tuners. I think there will (eventually) be DVD recorders with HDTV tuners, but they are still too expensive for Wal-Mart's price range at this time.
I saw a DVD recorder/VCR combination with an SDTV tuner at Wal Mart for $179 just recently. And it actually had the SDTV logo on the recorder, so it wasn't just a card they stuck on it.
I'm not an expert, but I'd think that the answer would be yes since it would have the typical antenna and RCA jacks.
I was in Wal Mart again earlier this week and noticed that some of the TV sets had both the SDTV card and the warning card that it was an analog set. And one actually WAS an SDTV! The lowest priced model that actually was an SDTV that I saw was an RCA 14 inch for $114. But there were still plenty analog sets with cards that said they were SDTV. It's pretty obvious whoever designed these cards has no idea what SDTV actually is. ??? :
ercjncpr said:
Almost certainly.
Make sure the recorder has the round yellow video jack and identical red and white round audio jacks, and that your analog TV has the same input jacks. If so, you'll be in business.
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To address someone else's posts, Wal-Mart does seem to have some trouble working out which sets have digital tuners & which don't. I'd recommend against buying a set unless you see the ATSC logo on the box or you can change channels & see it receive channels that are known to be DTV-only. (like the Weather Plus on many NBC affiliates)
The FCC fined two companies last week for importing/shipping TVs without ATSC tuners. Don't think that either of them shipped to Wal-Mart though.
The warning labels ("this set does not receive ATSC") are now required by FCC regulation.
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