DX and Reception/Re: How far do your local AMs go???

[cyberdad]

Durham's 620 WDNC, 5,000 watts day and 1,000 watts nighttime Directional both day and night. In the daytime, it can be heard along the coast of NC and Va. I've personally picked them up at Cape Hatteras and Newport News, Virginia.

When I lived in the Davenport, Iowa area in the mid-70s, WDNC was fairly regular in the nighttime mix with (or more commonly under) WTMJ. CKCK (Saskatoon) was also frequently present.

 

[icybluelake]

Durham's 620 WDNC, 5,000 watts day and 1,000 watts nighttime Directional both day and night. In the daytime, it can be heard along the coast of NC and Va. I've personally picked them up at Cape Hatteras and Newport News, Virginia.

When I lived in the Davenport, Iowa area in the mid-70s, WDNC was fairly regular in the nighttime mix with (or more commonly under) WTMJ. CKCK (Saskatoon) was also frequently present.

I live in eastern Iowa now, and can't swear that I've heard WDNC at night, but it sure seems like I have on occasion here -- if not, then I've heard it on the road at night. WTMJ is surprisingly weak here at night, since it's only a little over 200 miles away, but CKRM (formerly CKCK), at 10kW at night I think, makes it in here surprisingly often, ~ 850 miles. Raleigh is about 800 miles away by comparison.

 

[cyberdad]

WTMJ throws a little less juice to the south and west today at 10kw nights with a tighter pattern than back in the 70s when they were 5kw unlimited (with a less severe nighttime pattern).

Since 1980, I've lived about 35 miles southwest of TMJ's stick. I've never knowingly heard WDNC here, but CKRM can be quite a pest while listening to nighttime Packer games. Even though TMJ didn't exactly have an overpowering nighttime signal here back in the 5kw days, it was still strong enough to snuff out CKCK and any of the others.

 

[Steve_Green]

In the 'DX days' of the Sixties, back in Southern Queens NYC, WTMJ used to be a regular when WVNJ was off. I believe WVNJ signed off at midnight or 1 AM every night. Sometimes earlier. Two of the more casual DXers heard them (one of them saying he 'got this thing with a whole bunch of T's and J's and M's in it' !) They were also the only station for a long while we'd hear from Wisconsin. It must've been like you guys farther out midwest trying to hear something from Connecticut other than WTIC.

The two more-local AM stations in Pottsville PA don't go very far at night. WPPA 1360 is actually somewhat directional E-W in the day but pull it all in that way at night. I've heard the nighttime nulls on both sides, in Port Carbon and in downtown Minersville, while listening to their baseball games. Port Carbon can't be even three miles from WPPA and has a few sponsors on the station!

WPPA cuts it to 500 watts at night and looks as though they send maybe 400 of that south (over the COL), but even along their axis the signal isn't very impressive, getting busted up by Baltimore and even WDRC -- the station to the east they have to protect! Their 5 sticks are not lit up, but, on a hill about a half mile further from Minersville is WPAM's tower. They don't come in well at all some nights in Minersville either, being on 1450. So it's possible to see both station's arrays at night and not even be able to have the car radio 'seek' either one. Good thing about WPAM is that they're an excellent 'aurora' indicator, as many graveyarders are. When they come in clear at night here (maybe ten miles NE), it's time to break out the Aurora party hats. WAZL 1490 Hazleton is another somewhat-local and behaves the same way.

Perhaps the two best 'quality' signals are, alas, not on the air anymore. You could take WMBT 1530 and WMIM 1590 pretty far on I-81. Neither station was bothered by any close adjacents, yet they were very high on the dial. You'd think that the high dial situation would hurt their coverage, but not so. Both station's towers are still up, with WMBT's in the north stretch of Shenandoah Heights and WMIM's across the highway from the Mount Carmel high school.

 

[BRNout]

WTMJ throws a little less juice to the south and west today at 10kw nights with a tighter pattern than back in the 70s when they were 5kw unlimited (with a less severe nighttime pattern).

Since 1980, I've lived about 35 miles southwest of TMJ's stick. I've never knowingly heard WDNC here, but CKRM can be quite a pest while listening to nighttime Packer games. Even though TMJ didn't exactly have an overpowering nighttime signal here back in the 5kw days, it was still strong enough to snuff out CKCK and any of the others.

Interesting. It must be the pattern, because I get WTMJ very well during the day (almost "local") and reliably well at night from my location 25 miles to the NNW of Chicago.

WISN is the 50 kw Milwaukee station that gets cut with a guillotine at sunset. It comes in pretty well during the day, but they might as well be going off the air when they hit the antenna switch to change pattern; they're just gone. I actually experienced this when listening to them when driving one late afternoon near the IL/WI border on I-94. One minute I'm listening to them clearly, the next minute they were unlistenable.

The real oddball is Milwaukee's little 920 (country and talk?), which I actually get better at night than during the day!

 

[gar hi]

I was thinking about what some have said here regarding being able to pick up New York and Florida AM stations during the day on the North Carolina outer banks. Here in Tampa, WWL New Orleans can be heard in the daytime, though very weak, even with WGUL spilling over. That's about 500 miles and I'm 15 miles inland from the Gulf too.

I found something interesting that shows WCBS being picked up at 5 pm in January in the Bahamas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W_RgQogINQ


Even though it's still light, could this have been due to an early skywave forming?

How far can a groundwave actually go out over open water during the day?

 

[schmave]

I've wondered this myself about groundwave on the open sea and never received a real good answer. While WWL can be heard along the entire Gulf Coast judging from posts on this board, I've never read of Florida AMs making it all the way to Texas or vice-versa. Theoretically with the ocean's conductivity, that would happen because there's nothing to stop those signals until they hit land on the other side of the Gulf.
And remember that WWL throws a null out into the Gulf; that's the very thing that makes its inland groundwave so massive.
Then there are posts Bruce Carter has made where he's heard NYC 50K stations as well as those from many other cities, some of them well inland, on the barrier islands of the Atlantic in Florida.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Then there are posts Bruce Carter has made where he's heard NYC 50K stations as well as those from many other cities, some of them well inland, on the barrier islands of the Atlantic in Florida.

Not just me - some other people noted barrier island DX as well. It was quite disappointing to move from the house on Daytona Beach shores to one a few miles inland and have ALL of the 50kW powerhouses disappear.

I've tried repeating the feat / receiving Florida stations on the beach at Galveston, where I remember really good DX in the early 80's. Unfortunately, station glut on the dial covers any conceivable Florida station that would otherwise be a target. It is possible that other places along the Texas coast might be away from the station glut of the Houston area and some Florida stations might come in. From the number of Spanish language, I suspect many things were coming across the Gulf from Mexico, but I have no way of ID'ing them.

 

[gar hi]

That video of the New York station being heard in the Bahamas got me wondering if that or some of the other 50kw New York stations could be heard during the day in places like Miami or Miami beach. I've never heard them myself the couple of times I was down there and listened anyway, contrary to the claims of the person who was just mentioned as picking them up on the barrier islands but then again, that doesn't mean it's not possible just because I couldn't hear them. Even at 5 in the afternoon in January, I'd think the skywave could have already been getting active and was part of the reason for the reception of WCBS in the Bahamas. From my own listening to WWL here in Tampa and from the many reports of DXing from the Cape Hatteras, 500 miles is easily possible for daytime reception. I haven't heard those kind of reports of getting daytime NY AMs from the east coast of Florida. If it was a normal thing that happens any time of day, you'd think there would be many reports, IMO.

 

[cyberdad]

It must be the pattern, because I get WTMJ very well during the day (almost "local") and reliably well at night from my location 25 miles to the NNW of Chicago.

WISN is the 50 kw Milwaukee station that gets cut with a guillotine at sunset. It comes in pretty well during the day, but they might as well be going off the air when they hit the antenna switch to change pattern; they're just gone. I actually experienced this when listening to them when driving one late afternoon near the IL/WI border on I-94. One minute I'm listening to them clearly, the next minute they were unlistenable.

The real oddball is Milwaukee's little 920 (country and talk?), which I actually get better at night than during the day!

'TMJ's 5kw daytime pattern throws about as much juice into Illinois as it did when it was 5kw non-directional. When they upgraded, the extra juice basically all went north. As for WISN, they also went from 5kw to 50kw...but with a move down the dial from 1150 to 1130. To accomplish this (in the mid 60s), they were essentially shoehorned in between then WDGY and WCAR in Minneapolis and Detroit. At night, in addition to having to protect these two, they had to also protect Shreveport, New York and Vancouver (roughly in that order). The result is a very severe nighttime pattern aimed straight north. Their stick is very close to WTMJ's near Union Grove, WI.

Finally, WOKY. 5kw daytime with a fairly decent signal in most directions, but a severe null to the south (protecting WBAA in West Lafayette, IN). At night, they drop to 1kw, cutting off the east and west, but throwing one lobe to the north and another (somewhat smaller to the southwest. Indeed this means more signal getting into Illinois. Back in the sixties when the 920 channel was far less crowded, the result for radio listeners in Chicago's north and northwest suburbs was a nice "extra" top 40 station tucked conveniently between WLS & WCFL.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

heard those kind of reports of getting daytime NY AMs from the east coast of Florida. If it was a normal thing that happens any time of day, you'd think there would be many reports, IMO.

I just report what I heard. The house was sitting on the intercoastal waterway, so the soil under the house was saturated with moisture - probably brackish to saltish. Not enough to kill grass and trees, but the elevation of the house was just a could of feet above the water level. Receiver - GE SR-2. I lived there for a 10 month period, and listened at several times of the day throughout that period. There was never a time that I did not get the NYC 50 kW AMs, except WOR which was covered by Miami. Perhaps the trouble in Miami is lower rainfall which dries out the sand more. And perhaps there aren't more reports because, if you live in such a place, you are not likely to spend time DX'ing. Boating and the beach beckon!

 

[Icangelp]

550 khz WKRC News/Talk
Day: 5 kw. Directional north with lobes to east and southwest. I receive it up to Toledo and over to West Virginia. I assume the signal is good to the west of Lexington, KY and south.
Night: 1 kw. Directional north/northwest with a weak signal opposite. Covers Cincinnati well at night and I have received it to Fort Wayne, Indiana.
700 khz WLW Talk and sports.
Day: 50 kw. Non directional signal covers most of Ohio and Indiana and much of Kentucky and West Virginia. Good reception up to Detroit, but is covered by by Monroe MI is covered by the local on 690.
Night: 50 kw. Non directional. Have heard it from Florida to Colorado to Texas and Canada. A station of legend and fame. Long live the Crosley name.
740 khz WNOP Catholic radio.
Day: 2.5 kw. 1 lobe towards northwest with reasonable signal to Indianapolis. Stronger lobe towards southeast. It has been some time ago, but I have heard a weak signal some miles west of Huntington, WVA.
Night: 30 watts. The mighty signal can be heard well at my location, but then I live within 3 miles of the transmitter and it's throwing a lobe in my direction.
910 khz WPFB (Middletown) Traditional country. Technically this is not a Cincinnati station, but they have real live local disc jockeys and play traditional country music. Got to love that.
Day: 1 kw. Non directional, with a decent signal in all but the extreme southeast and southwest of Northern Kentucky.
Night: .1 kw. Non directional and virtually unheard in greater Cincinnati.
1050 khz WCVX Religious
Day: 1 kw. Non directional. Covers the city well except for the extreme suburbs.
Night .279 kw. Non Directional. you can hear it within 10 miles of the transmitter (which is located in Kentucky on the east side of I-75, and just before the Ohio river bridge).
1160 khz WDJO AM top 40 oldies played by local djs including the legendary Dusty Rhodes of WSAI and Hamilton County Auditor fame.
Day: 5 kw. Directional from Northern Kentucky transmitter and pointed up the I-71 corridor. Reasonable signal up to just south of Columbus.
Nights: .99 kw. Directional towards southeast. Signal in western Cincinnnati is bad or none and not to where one would expect even in eastern Cincinnati.
1230 khz WDBZ (of WCPO and 123 WB fame) Religious.
Day: 1 kw. Non directional signal does about as well as any city graveyard, maybe a little worse.
Night: 1 kw. Non directional disappears in the electronic soup for all but a few.
1320 khz WCVG Religious (Like this station as they play a lot of gospel)
Day: .5 kw. Directional with a lobe north/northwest and a lobe southwest. What you would expect. Covers N. KY well and a strip up to the northwestern part of greater Cincinnati.
Night: .43 kw. Directional in a broad southwesterly direction. Covers most of northern KY and western Cincinnati.
1360 khz WSAI (At one time, one of the highest rated AM top 40 stations in the country, and the home of my 2nd favorite disc jockey, Ron Brittain) ESPN sports
Day: 5 kw. Non directional. Strong to weak all over greater Cincinnati.
Night: 5 kw, Directional with butterfly pattern. with strong wide lobe southeast and a lobe directed towards Dayton. I assume you can hear it to south of Dayton. There is a lobe off to the west and no man's land.
1480 khz WCIN Smooth Jazz
Day: 4.5 kw. Directional and and odd shaped one at that. Decent signal in the traditional town but not so good in the suburbs.
Night: .3 kw. Directional, but a very weak signal in many areas of the city.
1530 khz WCKY Sports talk with local and national hosts
Day: 50 kw. Non directional. I've heard it up to Indianapolis and pretty close to Louisville. Down to Lexington and Dayton and pretty much to Columbus days.
Night: 50 kw. Goes non directional until Sacramento sunset, so I've heard it in Iowa and Minnesota while traveling. Very strong all the way to the east coast and down in Florida at night.

 

[gar hi]

I just report what I heard. The house was sitting on the intercoastal waterway, so the soil under the house was saturated with moisture - probably brackish to saltish. Not enough to kill grass and trees, but the elevation of the house was just a could of feet above the water level. Receiver - GE SR-2. I lived there for a 10 month period, and listened at several times of the day throughout that period. There was never a time that I did not get the NYC 50 kW AMs, except WOR which was covered by Miami. Perhaps the trouble in Miami is lower rainfall which dries out the sand more. And perhaps there aren't more reports because, if you live in such a place, you are not likely to spend time DX'ing. Boating and the beach beckon!

I haven't been over to the east coast of the state in about 20 years and that was the last time I attempted to hear the NY AMs during the day. I was inside the hotel and that could have had something to do with it. What I do remember is how much better they were at night compared to here on the west coast of Florida. I believe what you're saying and it would be interesting to hear that some time.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I was inside the hotel and that could have had something to do with it.

I think that is the difference. I was in a house a couple of feet above the water - no steel or concrete around the radio, of course. Just the house which probably attenuated some because it was stucco. I did notice the previous resident had put several holes in the wall for a ham installation.

I noted the same thing in Galveston - I was attempting some DX from inside someone's high rise timeshare, the results were miserable. Down on the beach, the whole AM band came alive!

 

[schmave]

As far as how far (couldn't think of different wording) our local Houston AMs go, my experience is limited. I can say I've picked up 740 and 790 without problems during the day in Austin; 790 was surprisingly strong for being about 150 miles away. I've read reports KTRH is easily audible into Mexico during the day.
Heading north toward DFW, 610 and 790 are listenable past Huntsville but not too far. I've heard 740 as far as Ennis, only 40 miles from downtown Dallas. That was on a rainy day in December 2006, but when I tried it again from there about a year ago it was much tougher to pull out.
I was able to listen 740 nearly to Waco while I was evacuating from Hurricane Ike. That I am aware of, no Houston AMs are available in Dallas on regular radios - quite a contrast to being able to pick up KLIF, WBAP and sometimes KRLD here during the day with everyday equipment.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I was able to listen 740 nearly to Waco while I was evacuating from Hurricane Ike. That I am aware of, no Houston AMs are available in Dallas on regular radios - quite a contrast to being able to pick up KLIF, WBAP and sometimes KRLD here during the day with everyday equipment.

740 is receivable in Plano, 25 miles NE of Dallas, because the geometries allow me to null a local 730. It is usually mixed with the Tulsa 740 - in fact with a narrowband radio I can hear both by nulling the one I don't want.

The other "Houston" receivable in Plano is 880, although it is in really bad shape and barely audible.

I was hearing 1560 almost clear the other day in the middle of the day - I think they run 50 kW daytime, and they may be the easiest Houston catch if the propagation is consistant. It doesn't surprise me, because 1520 from Oklahoma City is almost clear here - I would call it almost a local but propagation on these frequencies sometimes makes them fade out. I think it is residual skywave kicking in to cancel groundwave. 1520 is only 175 miles away - and 1560 would be 250, but I think it is possible reception will be year round on 1560 like it is on 1520.

 

[schmave]

I was able to listen 740 nearly to Waco while I was evacuating from Hurricane Ike. That I am aware of, no Houston AMs are available in Dallas on regular radios - quite a contrast to being able to pick up KLIF, WBAP and sometimes KRLD here during the day with everyday equipment.

740 is receivable in Plano, 25 miles NE of Dallas, because the geometries allow me to null a local 730. It is usually mixed with the Tulsa 740 - in fact with a narrowband radio I can hear both by nulling the one I don't want.

The other "Houston" receivable in Plano is 880, although it is in really bad shape and barely audible.

I was hearing 1560 almost clear the other day in the middle of the day - I think they run 50 kW daytime, and they may be the easiest Houston catch if the propagation is consistant. It doesn't surprise me, because 1520 from Oklahoma City is almost clear here - I would call it almost a local but propagation on these frequencies sometimes makes them fade out. I think it is residual skywave kicking in to cancel groundwave. 1520 is only 175 miles away - and 1560 would be 250, but I think it is possible reception will be year round on 1560 like it is on 1520.

1560 does run 50KW daytime, then they cut back to 100 watts at night from a small tower within Bellaire. Its tower is well south of Houston, so that is a good catch for during the day in the Metroplex.
I wanted to listen to 740 a bit from Fort Worth when Hurricane Ike sent us there, but it was always a mish-mash on my car radio (even with the engine off) and nothing came through in addition to slop from 730. Though I have sometimes heard KTRH at night in Dallas, it wasn't present on that trip.

 

[schmave]

Bruce:
Is KLIF's HD off? It is blasting into Houston right now (a few miles west of Galleria), louder than I've heard it in the 16 months I've lived here. I also heard KSKY for the first time; Dennis Prager was listenable under slop from the local 650. KRLD was buried under 1070 slop, as usual, and I couldn't pick up 730, 1270 or 1310.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Bruce:
Is KLIF's HD off? It is blasting into Houston right now (a few miles west of Galleria), louder than I've heard it in the 16 months I've lived here. I also heard KSKY for the first time; Dennis Prager was listenable under slop from the local 650. KRLD was buried under 1070 slop, as usual, and I couldn't pick up 730, 1270 or 1310.

Last time I checked - no. Although I didn't try at all yesterday. How is 820 these days? did you get a chance to check them when the IBOC was off
a couple of weeks ago?

You might try for KKLF on 1700, it should be an easy catch. We also have a 50 kW Spanish language station on 1540.

 

[schmave]

Bruce:
Is KLIF's HD off? It is blasting into Houston right now (a few miles west of Galleria), louder than I've heard it in the 16 months I've lived here. I also heard KSKY for the first time; Dennis Prager was listenable under slop from the local 650. KRLD was buried under 1070 slop, as usual, and I couldn't pick up 730, 1270 or 1310.

Last time I checked - no. Although I didn't try at all yesterday. How is 820 these days? did you get a chance to check them when the IBOC was off
a couple of weeks ago?

You might try for KKLF on 1700, it should be an easy catch. We also have a 50 kW Spanish language station on 1540.

WBAP is the same, though had I known the HD was off I'd have tried. I was up in Ohio for a week at the holidays, though, so I may have missed it anyway.
KKLF is a pretty easy catch later in the day before it gets creamed by Brownsville.