I was recently stranded at JFK airport, and I found the DX'ing to be impressive. In the past, I have attempted to DX in Manhattan, and predictably, I did not catch much. But I guess it is a different story in the outer boroughs. At one of the JFK airport hotels, I could stations from all over New Jersey (including South Jersey), southwestern Connecticut, and Long Island. None of these stations are audible in Manhattan.
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DX'ing in NYC
- Thread starter ScottBurns
- Start date
Small World Dep't ..... I was raised near JFK Airport. It used to be called Idlewild. The first of the relatives to leave the city went to Massapequa Park, and the first of 'the old gang' to move out wound up in Massapequa Park, too. Both locales were terrific for DX.
Geographically, the Jamaica Bay area was about as far away from the Meadowlands antenna farms as you could get and still be considered New York City. Unlike the DXers in Brooklyn, we out father East were spared the lasers sent through downtown NYC (and therefore through Brooklyn) because we were off to to the side of the megaphones as well as farther from the sites. Add the water path to that and things were sweet. Everyday regulars included WGLI 1290 right next to WADO, WBAB 1440 adjacent to WNJR, WALK 1370 with WBNX on, WINE 940 w/WPAT on, and WMID 1340 as loud as WEVD at times.
The closest towers to our place might have been those of WHLI -- which was directional away from us anyway.
Odd, though. With a longwire, I used to get Philly and South Jersey atop the same frequencies on which my buddy, four short blocks west, used to hear Connecticut and New England atop those channels off his own longwire. Two blocks further west from where he lived, ANOTHER one in the DX group got the same daytime DX I got -- Philly and South Jersey, atop frequencies such as 690, 860, 1340, 1450, etc. We never quite got around to figuring what caused this flip-flop. Moreover, it probably would've been interesting to've determined *commonalities* within those contradictory variables.
And the reception wasn't done on any Robocop-type radios, either. Barbershop Emersons, Pilot Hi-Fi's, even some transistors would do the job. Later the crew upgraded to pricier and more sophisticated radios, but at the start, the average family radio of the era was plenty -- and often surprising.
Aside from the clean reception -- you could null WADO with a decent portable and hear not WGLI's rock and roll but WTUX under them steady -- the thing I miss most about being a 'South Shore Bum' DXer was the local nature of the outlying stations, all of which played music. WNAR 1110, WADS 690, WHTG 1410, WVOX 1460, the then-1000 watt WGSM (with WVCH under 'em), WNLK 1350 (a few times with the distant WINY Putnam under them) .....
(Off-topic but perhaps notable vis-a-vis 'water path' : BELIEVE that Radio-Locator coverage for WSTC 1400. Their signal somehow shoots down the Sound, probably negotiates with minimal fuss winding through the East River, New York Bay and Arthur Kill, and winds up loud as heck well down Route 1 in New Jersey).
Thanks for the memories, gar, and Stranded in JFK!
Geographically, the Jamaica Bay area was about as far away from the Meadowlands antenna farms as you could get and still be considered New York City. Unlike the DXers in Brooklyn, we out father East were spared the lasers sent through downtown NYC (and therefore through Brooklyn) because we were off to to the side of the megaphones as well as farther from the sites. Add the water path to that and things were sweet. Everyday regulars included WGLI 1290 right next to WADO, WBAB 1440 adjacent to WNJR, WALK 1370 with WBNX on, WINE 940 w/WPAT on, and WMID 1340 as loud as WEVD at times.
The closest towers to our place might have been those of WHLI -- which was directional away from us anyway.
Odd, though. With a longwire, I used to get Philly and South Jersey atop the same frequencies on which my buddy, four short blocks west, used to hear Connecticut and New England atop those channels off his own longwire. Two blocks further west from where he lived, ANOTHER one in the DX group got the same daytime DX I got -- Philly and South Jersey, atop frequencies such as 690, 860, 1340, 1450, etc. We never quite got around to figuring what caused this flip-flop. Moreover, it probably would've been interesting to've determined *commonalities* within those contradictory variables.
And the reception wasn't done on any Robocop-type radios, either. Barbershop Emersons, Pilot Hi-Fi's, even some transistors would do the job. Later the crew upgraded to pricier and more sophisticated radios, but at the start, the average family radio of the era was plenty -- and often surprising.
Aside from the clean reception -- you could null WADO with a decent portable and hear not WGLI's rock and roll but WTUX under them steady -- the thing I miss most about being a 'South Shore Bum' DXer was the local nature of the outlying stations, all of which played music. WNAR 1110, WADS 690, WHTG 1410, WVOX 1460, the then-1000 watt WGSM (with WVCH under 'em), WNLK 1350 (a few times with the distant WINY Putnam under them) .....
(Off-topic but perhaps notable vis-a-vis 'water path' : BELIEVE that Radio-Locator coverage for WSTC 1400. Their signal somehow shoots down the Sound, probably negotiates with minimal fuss winding through the East River, New York Bay and Arthur Kill, and winds up loud as heck well down Route 1 in New Jersey).
Thanks for the memories, gar, and Stranded in JFK!
With NYC and Philly about 85 miles apart and each having a full Class B on 101.1, I wonder how close to NYC anyone has ever logged Philly with WCBS FM on the air?
Good question, Bob. I'm nowhere near an FM DXer as I've been an AM man, so I'm assuming you mean reception under what's generally considered 'normal' reception conditions as opposed to the anomalies? It would be cool to find out that someone travelling north along U.S. 9 or U.S. 1 was getting WBEB near the Lincoln Tunnel on the average car radio. I know that a person can see the tower lights of Philly's Roxborough tower farm while in Bensalem (which is NE of the Philadelphia city limit). The ESB and the WTC had to've been visible southwest for a good distance into New Jerey as well. Such a situation would reduce that 85 mile separation considerably.
A buddy of mine had a Fisher receiver and a rotating roof antenna out on Long Island's north shore (Mount Sinai, Near Port Jefferson). Amazing setup. Even on non-tropo days he'd be able to spin the aerial and hear things like WODS from Boston, and WHOM from Mt. Washington .... all three of the 94.3 stations (New Haven, Huntington and Asbury Park) .... loads of goodies. I'm certain that someone even in the Five Boroughs who used a similar setup could beam in WBEB during normal reception conditions.
I once heard the then-WDVR 101.1 on a stock table radio from that JFK Airport area, but WCBS-FM was off the air at the time, hi. But there was one morning near the famed Massapequa Park when I was getting JB-105 out of Providence RI during a huge trope -- with WRFM on the air. If I'm not mistaken, all of Nassau County is within line-of-sight of the Empire State Building, off which WRFM broadcast.
The FM DXers aboard here would be able to tell you (and me
if the outdoor aerial system, plus the phase-lock circuitry, lobes in the desired station more than it nulls out the undesirable one ...... or if nulling out the closer station is the chief means by which to get something by default. As I said, my knowledge of FM reception and equipment is nowhere near that of AM.
The bet here is that it wouldn't be improbable to be able to see the top of the Empire State Building from the top of WBEB's antenna in Roxborough, hence vice-versa. The lines-of-sight at least should be very close. As such, along the hillier routes through New Jersey -- U.S. 206 and U.S. 22 along the Watchung Mountain -- normal conditions should be ripe to hear one station or the other.
A buddy of mine had a Fisher receiver and a rotating roof antenna out on Long Island's north shore (Mount Sinai, Near Port Jefferson). Amazing setup. Even on non-tropo days he'd be able to spin the aerial and hear things like WODS from Boston, and WHOM from Mt. Washington .... all three of the 94.3 stations (New Haven, Huntington and Asbury Park) .... loads of goodies. I'm certain that someone even in the Five Boroughs who used a similar setup could beam in WBEB during normal reception conditions.
I once heard the then-WDVR 101.1 on a stock table radio from that JFK Airport area, but WCBS-FM was off the air at the time, hi. But there was one morning near the famed Massapequa Park when I was getting JB-105 out of Providence RI during a huge trope -- with WRFM on the air. If I'm not mistaken, all of Nassau County is within line-of-sight of the Empire State Building, off which WRFM broadcast.
The FM DXers aboard here would be able to tell you (and me
if the outdoor aerial system, plus the phase-lock circuitry, lobes in the desired station more than it nulls out the undesirable one ...... or if nulling out the closer station is the chief means by which to get something by default. As I said, my knowledge of FM reception and equipment is nowhere near that of AM. The bet here is that it wouldn't be improbable to be able to see the top of the Empire State Building from the top of WBEB's antenna in Roxborough, hence vice-versa. The lines-of-sight at least should be very close. As such, along the hillier routes through New Jersey -- U.S. 206 and U.S. 22 along the Watchung Mountain -- normal conditions should be ripe to hear one station or the other.
A few of us are using a phase box to cancel local signals & hear what is left on the frequency. I can often nuke a Class B at 23 miles & hear another B at 150 miles on the same freq. Likewise, an A at 13 miles can be phased out to reveal a translator at 37 miles. One would have to wonder if it would be possible very near the base of the WCBS FM site to utilize a phaser & bring WBEB out in the open. From experience, I know that there's no signal 4000' above a Class B. That leads one to assume that the signal 1400' (or however tall Empire is) below WCBS FM is probably much weaker than it would be a few miles out. It'll be interesting to see if any stories are posted on this one...Steve Green NEPA said:Good question, Bob. I'm nowhere near an FM DXer as I've been an AM man, so I'm assuming you mean reception under what's generally considered 'normal' reception conditions as opposed to the anomalies? It would be cool to find out that someone travelling north along U.S. 9 or U.S. 1 was getting WBEB near the Lincoln Tunnel on the average car radio. I know that a person can see the tower lights of Philly's Roxborough tower farm while in Bensalem (which is NE of the Philadelphia city limit). The ESB and the WTC had to've been visible southwest for a good distance into New Jerey as well. Such a situation would reduce that 85 mile separation considerably.
A buddy of mine had a Fisher receiver and a rotating roof antenna out on Long Island's north shore (Mount Sinai, Near Port Jefferson). Amazing setup. Even on non-tropo days he'd be able to spin the aerial and hear things like WODS from Boston, and WHOM from Mt. Washington .... all three of the 94.3 stations (New Haven, Huntington and Asbury Park) .... loads of goodies. I'm certain that someone even in the Five Boroughs who used a similar setup could beam in WBEB during normal reception conditions.
I once heard the then-WDVR 101.1 on a stock table radio from that JFK Airport area, but WCBS-FM was off the air at the time, hi. But there was one morning near the famed Massapequa Park when I was getting JB-105 out of Providence RI during a huge trope -- with WRFM on the air. If I'm not mistaken, all of Nassau County is within line-of-sight of the Empire State Building, off which WRFM broadcast.
The FM DXers aboard here would be able to tell you (and me
The bet here is that it wouldn't be improbable to be able to see the top of the Empire State Building from the top of WBEB's antenna in Roxborough, hence vice-versa. The lines-of-sight at least should be very close. As such, along the hillier routes through New Jersey -- U.S. 206 and U.S. 22 along the Watchung Mountain -- normal conditions should be ripe to hear one station or the other.
I should have mentioned in my first reply that I was talking about FM stations too. The one in particular I remember getting pretty good out on Long Island was the then (1970s) WIFI 92.5 from Philadelphia. Does the water have any real effect on FM? I had thought that had something to do with it but also I was far enough from New York that their stations didn't spill over that much either. I remember how most Philly FMs would be taken over by the adjacent New York FMs around Exit 8 ot 9 on the New Jersey Turnpike. Orlando is about the same distance from where I am in Tampa as New York was from where I lived in New Jersey and I can often get some of Orlando's FM stations because there's nothing local too close to those frequencies. I could never get the New York FMs in South Jersey except for some spring and summer evenings or early mornings. But I remember there were times going down to the shore where we'd be in the midle of the Pine Barrons away from the strong interference of the Philly signals and I could get some New York FMs on the car radio.
Steve Green NEPA said:
I can recall late one evening several years ago when I was driving from DC back to NYC, and conditions were such that I was hearing many of the DC and Baltimore FMs well into south, even central Jersey. On the same occasion, I remember hearing what was then Y-100 (100.3 from Media, PA) all the way up to maybe 20 to 25 miles south of Newark (ironic since Z-100's city of license is Newark, although I am pretty sure their transmitter is in Manhattan). I don't recall specificallly where, or which exit on the Turnpike. Z-100 was on the air at the time -- could have been on reduced power, but I don't think so, given the flukey conditions that night. I don't recall what was happening on 101.1 -- I was too busy being amazed at the reception from points farther south. But I would not call that evening's conditions normal.
It's true that in hillier parts of northern and central Jersey, driving up some hills and down others, the reception from Philly and NY stations will alternate, under normal conditions. Driving through western Jersey on Routes 78 or 80, that's not uncommon.
Also, commuting out on the Long Island Expressway in Nassau County, it's not unusual to be able to hear Philly FMs, including WMMR, WYSP, WXTU, maybe even WIOQ on occasion. The Philly FM on 106.1 (WISX?) would get clobbered by WBLI. I can imagine reception on the south shore being better on a regular basis.
And yeah, DX-ing from Manhattan isn't worthwhile, at least not where I've lived. I've never actually driven out to Jamaica Bay to try it, but from what I've heard, it could be very interesting, and certainly different from Manhattan.
At 20,000 to 30,000 feet above Manhattan, Queens and Nassau County on 101.1 you get......B101 from Philly! Nary a peep from CBS-FM. In fact, when I used to dx from airplanes (which I haven't done since 9/11), it amazed me that you could fly right over NYC and never get CBS-FM at all - even looking right down at midtown. Yet flying over south Jersey, it's still B101. And, heading northward, you basically hear a brief fight between B101 and CBS-FM over CT (and KC-101's slop) before WGIR-FM from Manchester, NH would take over the frequency over RI and E. CT. Really amazing how weak WCBS-FM's signal is along the entire airpath. Their 6700 watts doesn't really blast out there with any muscle.
CBS-FMs signal is surprisingly weak. When I was in NYC driving in Ct years ago I was amazed how quickly I lost their signal.
BRNout said:
Perhaps their antenna is configured to send most of their signal out in the horizontal plane and very little in the vertical plane.
6700 watts at 14 million feet up is the equivelant of 50,000 watts, Schmave. The other FM regulars licensed to NYC atop the Empire State Building are in that 6000-watt range, too .... WPLJ .... WHTZ .....
Odd that when everybody moved the TV and FM's south to the World Trade Center, the new tenants had to lower the power because some protected contour from Balt-D.C came between both the ESB and the WTC. Balt-D.C., of course, have the same VHF and FM allocations as NYC.
I don't know the heights of that blinking, glowering Philly tower farm in Roxborough, but on a *guess* I'd place their elevations lower than the ESB. That means that the FM's and TV's in Roxborough can put out more wattage to achieve their effective 50,000 watt signal.
Some engineers want the wattage ... some want the height.
Odd that when everybody moved the TV and FM's south to the World Trade Center, the new tenants had to lower the power because some protected contour from Balt-D.C came between both the ESB and the WTC. Balt-D.C., of course, have the same VHF and FM allocations as NYC.
I don't know the heights of that blinking, glowering Philly tower farm in Roxborough, but on a *guess* I'd place their elevations lower than the ESB. That means that the FM's and TV's in Roxborough can put out more wattage to achieve their effective 50,000 watt signal.
Some engineers want the wattage ... some want the height.
I had the occasion to have a portable radio with me while staying at a motel in Queens. I went up on the roof of that third story building, dialed around on the AM band and picked up WCKY 1530-AM from Cincinanti.
I once read that when Billy Joel was a youngster living on Long Island, he used to listen to rhythm & blues records played by WLAC out of Nashville.
I once read that when Billy Joel was a youngster living on Long Island, he used to listen to rhythm & blues records played by WLAC out of Nashville.
And many engineers want different things for different stations. If I'm trying to burn holes in office buildings at 15 miles, give me the 50KW. If I need to cover a sprawling metro like NYC, I'll take the 6700 watts in the clouds.Steve Green NEPA said:
Brings to mind a trip to Chicago (where the nominal 6700 watts is more like 4100 watts)...the clock radio in the hotel would not pick up all of the Class B stations on the Sears Tower & John Hancock building--even though both were less than a 15 minute walk away. Like another poster said, it's being shot at the horizon where it belongs.
WMGK in Philly is over 1100' above ground level...well below ESB. A number of ESB antennas are 1355' above ground, WCBS is 20' lower at 1335'.
Growing up in the 70s before we ever had cable in south Jersey right outside of Philly, we had a big antenna on the 2nd floor roof aimed at New York to get their stations too but they were snowy most of the time. When they moved many of the the NYC channels from the Empire State Building to the World Trade Center, there was a slight noticable improvement in the reception on some stations.
Another interesting thing about the old New York antenna we had was how planes landing and taking off from the local airport in Philly would mess with the signals if they happened to be coming in or going out right overhead and on channnel 11 in particular, there would sometimes be a couple of seconds where channel 11 from Baltimore would suddenly over ride New York completely and then rapidly go away. To bad the next generation who will only know DTV will never know how interesting TV used to be.
Another interesting thing about the old New York antenna we had was how planes landing and taking off from the local airport in Philly would mess with the signals if they happened to be coming in or going out right overhead and on channnel 11 in particular, there would sometimes be a couple of seconds where channel 11 from Baltimore would suddenly over ride New York completely and then rapidly go away. To bad the next generation who will only know DTV will never know how interesting TV used to be.
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