DXing-Why?

[Mike Walker]

You don't get it, RF. I respect your opinions, but maybe this is a Yankee vs. Southerner thing. WSM IS WSM because of tradition. Moving to FM would abandon the tradition. If I had to wager now, I'd wager that WSM will be doing the same thing in 50 years they're doing now. Since they've done it for 80 years. a couple of generations beyond other AM music stations, I think it's a sound bet. They may be doing it digitally only, but if there's still an AM band, there will still be traditional country music at 650AM, and the Opry on Friday and Saturday nights.

I think it's a lesson (in hindsight) to all the AM stations that abandoned music while they still had a substantial audience, joining the "format of the month club". Some of them, the ones with the biggest signals, found "salvation" with conservative talk...Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. Many of the rest NEVER reached the numbers they had when they abandoned music, or "full service" programming. I think "full service" adult contemporary, with heavy emphasis on community involvement and personality, and a heavy commitment to local news and sports...a station that just hapens to play music between the involvement in it's community, is just as viable now as ever. The stations (and they are few!) that never abandoned the formula (WKBC AM North Wilkesboro NC, WNNC Newton NC...co-owned with WXRC Charlotte, WSM as another GREAT example) never went away...and never ceased to be profitable.

Yes some listeners migrated from AM to FM in the 80s. But largely it wasn't the audience that abandoned AM, it was AM that abandoned THE AUDIENCE! Stations that DIDN'T abandon their audience, that maintained their commitment to them, and their communies, continued. It's been a hard road, of course. But transition doesn't have to mean obsolescence. The future IS digital. My guess is that WSM will continue to offer what made them "Nashville's Country Legend". They'll just deliver it as packets of data...ones and zeroes.

 

[R.F. Burns]

You don't get it, RF. I respect your opinions, but maybe this is a Yankee vs. Southerner thing. WSM IS WSM because of tradition. Moving to FM would abandon the tradition. If I had to wager now, I'd wager that WSM will be doing the same thing in 50 years they're doing now. Since they've done it for 80 years. a couple of generations beyond other AM music stations, I think it's a sound bet. They may be doing it digitally only, but if there's still an AM band, there will still be traditional country music at 650AM, and the Opry on Friday and Saturday nights.

I think it's a lesson (in hindsight) to all the AM stations that abandoned music while they still had a substantial audience, joining the "format of the month club". Some of them, the ones with the biggest signals, found "salvation" with conservative talk...Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. Many of the rest NEVER reached the numbers they had when they abandoned music, or "full service" programming. I think "full service" adult contemporary, with heavy emphasis on community involvement and personality, and a heavy commitment to local news and sports...a station that just hapens to play music between the involvement in it's community, is just as viable now as ever. The stations (and they are few!) that never abandoned the formula (WKBC AM North Wilkesboro NC, WNNC Newton NC...co-owned with WXRC Charlotte, WSM as another GREAT example) never went away...and never ceased to be profitable.

Yes some listeners migrated from AM to FM in the 80s. But largely it wasn't the audience that abandoned AM, it was AM that abandoned THE AUDIENCE! Stations that DIDN'T abandon their audience, that maintained their commitment to them, and their communies, continued. It's been a hard road, of course. But transition doesn't have to mean obsolescence. The future IS digital. My guess is that WSM will continue to offer what made them "Nashville's Country Legend". They'll just deliver it as packets of data...ones and zeroes.

Maybe it is a regional difference and I understand what you are saying Michael, it just that I've seen radio stations with long traditions change. I don't think WSM is any older then WOR. On WOR from 1925 until 2000 a Gambling had anchored the morning show. In 2000 the station decided to go another route and fired John R Gambling after 9 years in the role of WOR morning man. WCBS FM which had been a 24 hours oldies formated station starting in 1972 changed formats and fired all of the loing time personalities with no warning in 2005. Now 33 years doesn't sound like a long time but there was outrage over this in NYC. Nevertheless the company didn't care and did what it felt was best for the company. I was just looking at the 12+ numbers for WSM in Nashville and while those numbers don't mean much, in this case I think they say a great deal. Where WSM FM gets a 6 share, the AM gets a 2.9. Tradition is a wonderful thing but eventually things change, like it ro not.

 

[davideduardo]

I hope you don't mean you think WSM will eventually change formats (?) Nobody would listen to whatever else they put on. The Nashville community is close-knit. They simply wouldn't stand for that piece of their heritage being lost. Even those who listen to other formats value WSM.

As long as WSM (AM) is perceived to be a part of the marketing for the Gaylord Entertainment division, it will stay as it is, despite dismal billing and dismal ratings. The moment that Gaylord feels the station no longer attracts people to the Gaylord attractions, it will become another news talk AM... where it could be a moneymaker given the signal issues at 1510. I think they would sell it, to avoid being blamed for the change... but it will happen. Not this year or next, but as the folks who remember enduring static to hear Minnie Pearl and the bisquit mix ads die off, WSM will become what BurmaShave is to the industry it was part of (Interstates killed BurmaShave; the Internet will kill WSM).

Nashville used to be home to one of the great top-40 stations...WLAC (am I the only one here old enough to remember "The Spiderman" at night?)

WLAC is famous only for the late night shows, not as a Top 40. The killer Top 40's were WKDF and WMAK (from where Scott Shannon emerged)

On my first trip to Nashville, I punched up 650AM as soon as I hit the Tennessee line. It was quite a few miles before WSM started to come in (middle of the day), but about 100 miles out they were clear as a bell.

WSM and WSB undoubtedly have the worst coverage of any of the 1-A clears.... due to the terrible ground conductivity in that area of the country. But WLAC is vastly worse, which is why 650 would make such a good talk station eventually.

 

[w9wi]

(my reply probably belongs in the Nashville board...)

I hope you don't mean you think WSM will eventually change formats (?) Nobody would listen to whatever else they put on. The Nashville community is close-knit. They simply wouldn't stand for that piece of their heritage being lost. Even those who listen to other formats value WSM.

As I bike down the road past my home, about 50 miles north of the WSM transmitter... I'm almost more likely to see an Illinois, Wisconsin, or Ohio plate ("tag", down here!) than a Tennessee one. Nashville is a rapidly growing metropolitan area, and much of that growth is coming from outside the state; indeed, much of it is coming from the North. The newcomers have little history with WSM. For that matter, neither do locals younger than 50 or so.

I do wonder if maybe what WSM is doing (operating to promote Gaylord's other properties) is in fact the most economically efficient thing they can do with the station? The market already has a 100kw news/talk FM and two sports FMs, not to mention CC's WLAC which has many of the "big name" national talk programs tied up. IMHO the most likely scenario for AM 650 to end up news/talk is for Clear Channel to buy the station, move WLAC to 650, and do, uh, *something* else with 1510. Maybe just call it WSM & run automated classic country.

And maybe we shouldn't rule out promotion of Gaylord's other properties as an economic basis for AM 650. Pitch it to other tourist-oriented businesses & operate it as a kind of giant TIS. That's how commercial broadcasting got off the ground in the 1920s, and it seems to be worth Disney's while with their Radio Disney outlets - which seem to be billing pretty much *zero*...

 

[Chuck]

Re: It's spelled O-P-R-Y!

I wonder what their real audience is for that show via WSM outside of their normal coverage area.

I don't know the answer, but I do know several people here in East Texas who have it as a preset on their car radios. They are not radio Geeks, and not all of them are over 50 either. One just turned 30, so go figure.

 

[catfishal]

I read this thread and I could not help but to register for this site so I could respond. I listen to WSM alot online and by skywave occasionally. I'm 29 and live in St. Louis. I'm sure there are more many more like me.
I think the Internet will help WSM maintain the country format and the Opry in the long run. I'll agree WSM does help Gaylord promote their other properties. However, the Opry has had more newer acts in the last few years and WSM has been adding more 1990's and 2000's songs to their playlist recently. When I went to the Opry a few years ago, I would say at least half of the audience was under 50. As another poster said there are already 2 News/Talk and 2 Sports stations in Nashville. So I can't see them geting better ratings unless there was a frequency swap

 

[catfishal]

WSM is also running a nationwide contest for a trip to Nashville

 

[PocketRadio]

Yes some listeners migrated from AM to FM in the 80s. But largely it wasn't the audience that abandoned AM, it was AM that abandoned THE AUDIENCE! Stations that DIDN'T abandon their audience, that maintained their commitment to them, and their communies, continued. It's been a hard road, of course. But transition doesn't have to mean obsolescence. The future IS digital. My guess is that WSM will continue to offer what made them "Nashville's Country Legend". They'll just deliver it as packets of data...ones and zeroes.

WHO-AM News Talk Information 9.7 7.2 9.9 10.6
WLW-AM News Talk Information 8.9 9.9 11.2 9.8
WSB-AM News Talk Information 9.3 8.7 9.2 8.2
WGN-AM News Talk Information 5.3 5.5 5.8 5.4
WBBM-AM All News 4.2 4.1 4.4 4.6
WLS-AM News Talk Information 4.1 3.7 3.7 3.8
WTAM-AM News Talk Information 7.3 8.0 6.5 7.3
WJR-AM News Talk Information 4.8 4.9 5.3 5.3
KMOX-AM News Talk Information 8.4 7.7 8.2 8.4
KSL-AM News Talk Information 5.9 6.7 8.6 7.7

http://www.arbitron.com/radio_stations/home.htm

These 50KW AMs are just a sampling of those ranked #1, or in the top-5. Music formats moved to FM, but news/talk/sports on AM remains very popular. So, the future for terrestrial radio is digital - DAB has stalled in Canada, interest in DAB is slowing in the UK and DAB is such a mess that DAB+ may be mandated, and interest in HD/IBOC in the US is nonexistent. Your words are nothing but "digital hype".

 

[davideduardo]

I read this thread and I could not help but to register for this site so I could respond. I listen to WSM alot online and by skywave occasionally. I'm 29 and live in St. Louis. I'm sure there are more many more like me.

There is the key: "occasionally." To build any kind of audience, a station has to be listend to often... 5 or 6 times a week for an hour or so at a time. Occasional listening does not get any ratings for WSM. In fact, the station only shows up in the Nashville market ratings and those of several markets adjacent to it where groudwave coverage is available... like showing up in the Huntsville book once in the last 6 years, or occasional shows in Muscle Shoals, Cookeville and Clarrsville.

However, the Opry has had more newer acts in the last few years and WSM has been adding more 1990's and 2000's songs to their playlist recently. When I went to the Opry a few years ago, I would say at least half of the audience was under 50.

That does nothing for the fact that the station is rated very low in 25-54 and is not, in all probablility, covering costs. Most of the audience is over 55+... it's an AM , playing music.

 

[davideduardo]

WHO-AM News Talk Information 9.7 7.2 9.9 10.6
WLW-AM News Talk Information 8.9 9.9 11.2 9.8
WSB-AM News Talk Information 9.3 8.7 9.2 8.2
WGN-AM News Talk Information 5.3 5.5 5.8 5.4
WBBM-AM All News 4.2 4.1 4.4 4.6
WLS-AM News Talk Information 4.1 3.7 3.7 3.8
WTAM-AM News Talk Information 7.3 8.0 6.5 7.3
WJR-AM News Talk Information 4.8 4.9 5.3 5.3
KMOX-AM News Talk Information 8.4 7.7 8.2 8.4
KSL-AM News Talk Information 5.9 6.7 8.6 7.7

These 50KW AMs are just a sampling of those ranked #1, or in the top-5. Music formats moved to FM, but news/talk/sports on AM remains very popular. So, the future for terrestrial radio is digital - DAB has stalled in Canada, interest in DAB is slowing in the UK and DAB is such a mess that DAB+ may be mandated, and interest in HD/IBOC in the US is nonexistent. Your words are nothing but "digital hype".

12+ ratings are useless. they are given away free because they are worth nothing revenue wise.

This stuff you keep posting is irrelevant and totally, magnificantly and absolutely irrelevant in determining the economics of radio.

Most of those stations are not in the top 5 in the "sales demos" under age 55. Most are declining in billings, in fact.

WGN is not even in the top 20 in 25-54 where the money is.

And there are only two dozen such non-directional 1-A clear channels in the US. The other 4,800 AMs in the US do not have big signals, and most don't get this kind of 12+ rating... except for Chicago, NY and SF, it is rare to find a market with 2 AMs in the top 10... in some, there are none in the top 10, in fact.

You really have to stop publishing 12+ ratings as proof of anything. No sales are made on 12+, no programming decisions are made on 12+, and you are totally ignoring the fact that AM listening is ageing overall... most listening is by over-55's who advertisers do not seek in the rated markets.

 

[davideduardo]

WSM is also running a nationwide contest for a trip to Nashville

Every contest of every station that streams is not only nationwide, but worldwide.

 

[catfishal]

I read this thread and I could not help but to register for this site so I could respond. I listen to WSM alot online and by skywave occasionally. I'm 29 and live in St. Louis. I'm sure there are more many more like me.

There is the key: "occasionally." To build any kind of audience, a station has to be listend to often... 5 or 6 times a week for an hour or so at a time. Occasional listening does not get any ratings for WSM. In fact, the station only shows up in the Nashville market ratings and those of several markets adjacent to it where groudwave coverage is available... like showing up in the Huntsville book once in the last 6 years, or occasional shows in Muscle Shoals, Cookeville and Clarrsville.

Yes but I do listen to the online stream on an almost daily basis at work

 

[PocketRadio]

12+ ratings are useless. they are given away free because they are worth nothing revenue wise.

This stuff you keep posting is irrelevant and totally, magnificantly and absolutely irrelevant in determining the economics of radio.

Most of those stations are not in the top 5 in the "sales demos" under age 55. Most are declining in billings, in fact.

WGN is not even in the top 20 in 25-54 where the money is.

And there are only two dozen such non-directional 1-A clear channels in the US. The other 4,800 AMs in the US do not have big signals, and most don't get this kind of 12+ rating... except for Chicago, NY and SF, it is rare to find a market with 2 AMs in the top 10... in some, there are none in the top 10, in fact.

You really have to stop publishing 12+ ratings as proof of anything. No sales are made on 12+, no programming decisions are made on 12+, and you are totally ignoring the fact that AM listening is ageing overall... most listening is by over-55's who advertisers do not seek in the rated markets.

"50,000-Watt AM stations"

http://www.northpine.com/broadcast/50kwam.html

The are about 150 50KW AM stations in the US and Canada.

So, you are claiming that the money is with the 24 - 54 year-olds:

"Where Are My Listeners Going?"

"During the quarter 2 2006 study, Bridge Ratings attempted to learn how multi-media consumption is affecting traditional radio listenership. When viewed by demographic, the Bridge Ratings report determined that compared to a year ago, weekly listenership to traditional radio has been impacted as follows:

12-24 = -23%
25-49 = - 9%
35-64 = +14%

http://www.bridgeratings.com/press_Where Are Listeners Going Update.07.07.2006.htm

Oh, well !

 

[davideduardo]

The are about 150 50KW AM stations in the US and Canada.

We are not talking about Canada. Most Canadian AMs are gone, and most of the remaining ones are migrating to FM. Canada has reduced by more than half the number of AMs in the last decade, and is still, every month, moving another 5 or 6 to FM.

There are 98 US AMs with 50 kw day and night. Many, like KMIK in Phoenix, are inferior facilities, outrated and outcovered by lower powered stations at the bottom of the dial; 50 kw on 1580 covers less than 5 kw on 550.

A third or more of the stations you mention are coastal, shooting 50 kw out over the ocean like WAQI in Miami or KBLA in LA or KFAX in San Francisco or KTRH in Houston or KFMB in San Diego. These three examples do not even get a usable night signal over the entire metro they are in... they are so directional out to sea that they cover little land area. 50 kw KBLA covers less than 15% of the LA metro at night with an interference free signal, to give one specific example.

Unless the 50 kw covers the local market, at least, it is useless. Several of the ones I just mentioned do not even show up in the local ratings, and have no skywave coverage of any consequence over land areas of the US.

So, you are claiming that the money is with the 24 - 54 year-olds:

Nearly 100% of agency buys for radio are for ages between 18 and 54. Period. Nobody has changed this in 50 years, and nobody will.

"During the quarter 2 2006 study, Bridge Ratings attempted to learn how multi-media consumption is affecting traditional radio listenership. When viewed by demographic, the Bridge Ratings report determined that compared to a year ago, weekly listenership to traditional radio has been impacted as follows:

Bridge Ratings has a great PR machine, but I know of no radio station that uses them. Every significant station in the top 300 US markets uses Arbitron for ratings, and so do 100% of ad agencies in the US. You are out shopping for data that fits your agenda, and in the process picking up information from unacceptable sources.

Fact: 12+ ratings are meaningless.
Fact: agency buys are nearly 100% for all or part of 18-54 demos.
Fact: Only a few AMs have significant ratings in rated markets... generally 0 to 2 per market at most.
Fact: AM listeners are predominantly over 55.
Fact: As AM listeners continue to age, there will be less total listening and far less total advertising.
Fact: there are many 5 kw AMs that cover more than most of the 50 kw AMs you keep listing. Frequency, not power, is the biggest factor on AM.

 

[PocketRadio]

Bridge Ratings has a great PR machine, but I know of no radio station that uses them. Every significant station in the top 300 US markets uses Arbitron for ratings, and so do 100% of ad agencies in the US. You are out shopping for data that fits your agenda, and in the process picking up information from unacceptable sources.

"Radio's Wounded Business Model"

"Listen to music on the radio much lately? If you answered “no,” you’re in good company. Americans are listening to broadcasts -- especially of music -- much less frequently then they used to. And with good reason, too: Stations which were once a way to discover new music have become bland sources of uniform playlists. At present, the heavy emphasis (or over-emphasis) is on hip hop; This comes after a long alliance with insipid boy bands. Listeners left in droves."

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2004/07/clear_channels_.html

Bridge Ratings are correct - "Listeners left in droves". However, my favorite, WLW, is by-far the #1 ranked in Ohio !

 

[vistasuxx]

Bridge Ratings has a great PR machine, but I know of no radio station that uses them. Every significant station in the top 300 US markets uses Arbitron for ratings, and so do 100% of ad agencies in the US. You are out shopping for data that fits your agenda, and in the process picking up information from unacceptable sources.

You can say that again! Bridge Ratings is a joke, as PocketRadio's other hero Mark Ramsey will tell you.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

WSM is also running a nationwide contest for a trip to Nashville

Every contest of every station that streams is not only nationwide, but worldwide.

Not if the station restricts the contest to U.S. Citizens only.

 

[KE4KLS_Radio]

I had to chime in on this topic.

Even though I live in the Daytona Beach / Orlando Market, I get frustrated trying to pick up some of the local stations in my suburban location, in particular national news, or other programming on AM, particularly during critical hours or at night. At my location, WBT's 1110 AM skywave reliably comes in much better at night than the local WNDB 1150 AM in Daytona Beach, even though I'm only 20 miles from the tower. So I keep a preset in my car for 1110 even though the station is about 480 miles from my home when I'm out in the evening or early morning. As most of you know many AM stations have reduced groundwave coverage at night due to power reduction or interference. With most newer residential areas in recent years expanding further from the market core, no wonder there are fewer listeners on AM, the grade A signals just don't reach people well in surburban areas in the fringes (at least this is my observation here in FL). I do think that AM stations located in large markets (such as Houston or Jacksonville) should have an opportunity to add some sort of FM coverage, perhaps even an HD-2 channel, which BTW would be a good cross promotion of HD radio and AM....

 

[davideduardo]

Every contest of every station that streams is not only nationwide, but worldwide.

Not if the station restricts the contest to U.S. Citizens only.

How can a stream be made to tell who is a citizen and who is not?

 

[davideduardo]

"Listen to music on the radio much lately? If you answered “no,” you’re in good company. Americans are listening to broadcasts -- especially of music -- much less frequently then they used to. And with good reason, too: Stations which were once a way to discover new music have become bland sources of uniform playlists. At present, the heavy emphasis (or over-emphasis) is on hip hop; This comes after a long alliance with insipid boy bands. Listeners left in droves."

This is just a lie you picked up somewhere. 95% of people in the 18-54 sales demos use radio. There are not even 300 hip hop stations in the US, out of 14,000. Similar playlists date back to the original Top 40 stations in the early 50's... the playlists from one end of the US to the other were nearly the same, with just tiny differences. More new music is introduced each week today than in 1960...

The quote you lifted is 100% distortion and untruth, something that is becoming the norm in your posts. You seem to equate "fact" with the mere coincidence that some piece of data has been posted on the web. Most of what you lift from other sites is either untrue or conjecture or opinion.

However, my favorite, WLW, is by-far the #1 ranked in Ohio !

Actually, not true. Several Cleveland stations have larger audiences... like WTAM in Cleveland with significant ratings in Akron, Canton, and Youngstown.