dying AM radio

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Back when the public Internet started carrying VoIP traffic, AT&T and other phone providers who provide the backbone for the Internet were outraged, because voice/phone traffic was technically traveling over their phone lines (a.k.a. the Internet) without their ability to get paid for long distance access and passing off the tariffs.
/ / S N I P / /
Everyone wants their revenue from this brave new world.

This is a classic example of just how complex our economic system is, and how our political system wants to deal with issues in ways that allow the politicians to not get their fingers burned in the process.

We give a lot of political lip-service in this country to the idea that we have the perfect economic system that is self-regulating, self-adjusting, and self directed. But when the "the chips are down" everyone sceams at the legislators and regulators: "You gotta protect MY pocket-book."

I have significan sympathy for AT&T... well, the OLD AT&T that really built and developed a fabulous phone and communications system in this country. The technology that came out of that fortress in the last 60 years is just mind boggling. That innovative AT&T I still love. Everything they did was CAST-IRON SOLID. But this new AT&T that jerks me around on phone, and Internet, and cable... I dislike them with a passion.

So AT&T and their companions in the electronics movement industry want laws and regulations that will reward them for their investment and hard work over the last 60 years. They want government to put a handy zipper on my wallet so they can dip in to their hearts content.

And the grouchy old men like me are calling and writing to demand laws and regulations that will make the zipper on my wallet very small, very tight fisted.

So much for the idea that capitalist is the perfect system that is completely capable of regulating itself.

***Don't read into my diatribe things that are not there. I am pro-capitalism. But it has to be a well-oiled two-way-transaction economic system... not one where everybody raises their hand in the classroom and says: "Teacher, make ME your protected favorite child and student. After all, you are my MOTHER and my Teacher!"

 

[Ravens]

This favoritism you're describing is the exact opposite of a free market system. Which is why it doesn't work.

 

[b-turner]

Earlier, Avid mad the comment that 'Hobby' does not mean it cannot make money. We differ in interpreting the word. The IRS states a business is a Hobby if it does not make a profit at least one in five years. A Hobby Farm here is sometimes called a Gentleman's farm. For both terms it is a farm that is operated not for a livelihood and is too small for a livelihood. If anything it is a real estate industry term for clients wanting a rural setting with a home on a few acres.

 

[CTListener]

I have significan sympathy for AT&T... well, the OLD AT&T that really built and developed a fabulous phone and communications system in this country. The technology that came out of that fortress in the last 60 years is just mind boggling. That innovative AT&T I still love. Everything they did was CAST-IRON SOLID. But this new AT&T that jerks me around on phone, and Internet, and cable... I dislike them with a passion.
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AT&T pulled out of Connecticut as a telephone company and Internet/cable provider last fall, selling its operations in the state to Frontier. Ask anyone here and they'll tell you that experiencing three months of Frontier -- which is WAY over its head -- has given them the warm fuzzies all over when they think about AT&T now.

 

[Avid Listener]

Earlier, Avid mad the comment that 'Hobby' does not mean it cannot make money. We differ in interpreting the word. The IRS states a business is a Hobby if it does not make a profit at least one in five years. A Hobby Farm here is sometimes called a Gentleman's farm. For both terms it is a farm that is operated not for a livelihood and is too small for a livelihood. If anything it is a real estate industry term for clients wanting a rural setting with a home on a few acres.

Lord save us from such pedantic nitpicking! Have we as a civilization sunk so low that the Internal Revenue Service now dictates the general meaning of words in casual conversation?

 

[b-turner]

Obviously Avid, you are the only person that knows anything, at least in your own mind. I wish you knew the meaning of discussion and civility but it seems we disagree on the definition of those words as well. Your comments tend to seem bitter and tiring in my mind. I wish you’d smile and be happy sometime.

 

[landtuna]

Mr. Pedantic apparently cannot separate the general meaning of 'hobby' from the definition as it applies to the revenue code. The IRS' purpose, of course, is to prevent hobbyists from taking bonafide business losses and not to provide another definition of the word.

 

[K.M. Richards]

AT&T pulled out of Connecticut as a telephone company and Internet/cable provider last fall, selling its operations in the state to Frontier. Ask anyone here and they'll tell you that experiencing three months of Frontier -- which is WAY over its head -- has given them the warm fuzzies all over when they think about AT&T now.

Ironically (and speaking as someone who had ties to SBC in the late '90s and early '00s) the phone company in question, SNET -- Southern New England Telephone Company -- was not bundled into the Baby Bells when the divestiture was implemented in 1984 as it was one of the two Bell operating companies in which AT&T only held a minority stake.* So it was only "part of AT&T" as a technicality.

It wasn't until SBC (Southwestern Bell) purchased SNET in 1998 and was combined with that Baby Bell (which had purchased the Pacific Telesis Group ... Pacific Bell and Nevada Bell one year earlier) and BellSouth (acquired in a merger in 2006) that it became part of AT&T ... in name only, since that was the result of a merger between the megalocal company and the by-then faltering long-distance carrier.

So SNET's operation by Frontier could be well described as going back to its roots as an independent.

Don't get me started on the history of Frontier West Virginia.


(*-The other was Cincinnati Bell, which has somehow managed to remain independent through all the corporate machinations of the 30 years since divestiture.)

 

[RadioFan2J3]

The IRS states a business is a Hobby if it does not make a profit at least one in five years. .

One in five years? Isn't it three in five years?

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Business-or-Hobby?-Answer-Has-Implications-for-Deductions

 

[davideduardo]

Lord save us from such pedantic nitpicking! Have we as a civilization sunk so low that the Internal Revenue Service now dictates the general meaning of words in casual conversation?

The distinction that b-turner makes is quite valid. A hobby is a "without the goal of profits" activity. A business intends to make a profit.

I know of countless good broadcasters who have acquired stations in places like St Thomas and St. Croix and Key West and Traverse City and Taos because they thought it would be great to have a business in a place they could really enjoy living at the same time. They knew radio, but did not understand that some of these tourist destination markets are really horrible radio markets. The station was not, though, at any time a "hobby".

A hobby station is one like KFXM in Lancaster, CA. It's a LPFM that has a very competently done oldies format, uses good quality equipment and has professional production standards. But it is not out for profit, and is sustained principally by one person who gets some donations but is doing a labor of love in keeping this station on the air.

Loving what you are doing is not, per se, the defining characteristic of having or running a radio station. I loved putting on my first radio station, but I knew if it did not make money by the 6th month on the air, it would be gone. I loved putting on northern South America's first FM station... knowing that it might not make money for half a decade or more... but I knew I wanted to be on the band first and establish a name and postion and even if it lost money, it was a deadly serious business decision and not a "I wanna have an FM" hobby decision.

Other than LPFMs, a hobby station would exist in the case where a very wealthy person wanted to create a radio station as a community service or as an ego gratification and did so with no intent to sell much advertising. How many of those are there? Or how many have there been in the last half-century? I can't think of a single one, although I guess there may be a few, past or present.

The closest that I can think of other than KFXM are Bob Bittman's listener supported stations in ME and MA. Bob has maintained WJIB in Boston with an eclectic standards type of format for the last 23 years on minimal donations and community support. But to say that this labor of love is a hobby might be an exaggeration as Mr. Bittner is not wealthy but is motivated by providing a radio service not otherwise available in his market, so the stations he has are not treated as toys.

Your "radio hobbyist" concept is, simply, totally and absurdly wrong.

 

[K.M. Richards]

A hobby station is one like KFXM in Lancaster, CA. It's a LPFM that has a very competently done oldies format, uses good quality equipment and has professional production standards. But it is not out for profit, and is sustained principally by one person who gets some donations but is doing a labor of love in keeping this station on the air.

Of course, being a LPFM, Chris Compton had to form a non-profit organization to hold the license, so the IRS' definition of "hobby" is not applicable, but otherwise KFXM is a class act that could easily be a commercial station if there was sufficient demand for the format.

I worked with Chris briefly in the 1980s and I will tell you three things which comprise everything you need to know about him: One, he's an excellent, extremely competent engineer (both audio and RF); two, he loves the music and knows it inside and out, forwards and backwards; and three, he is a scrupulously honest guy.

 

[ContinuousWave]

AT&T pulled out of Connecticut as a telephone company and Internet/cable provider last fall, selling its operations in the state to Frontier. Ask anyone here and they'll tell you that experiencing three months of Frontier -- which is WAY over its head -- has given them the warm fuzzies all over when they think about AT&T now.

The "new" at&t is building out U Verse in areas far around Houston like crazy...but they don't hire local techs anymore...for a market 100 miles away, they'll send techs from Houston in 1-2 week rotations...and none of the "kids" have had prior tech training before hiring on at a&t...the company sends them to a 4-6 week training course and that's it!! Then to the field...I shudder to think what will happen when problems occur...

 

[MickeyD]

Earlier, Avid mad the comment that 'Hobby' does not mean it cannot make money. We differ in interpreting the word. The IRS states a business is a Hobby if it does not make a profit at least one in five years. A Hobby Farm here is sometimes called a Gentleman's farm. For both terms it is a farm that is operated not for a livelihood and is too small for a livelihood. If anything it is a real estate industry term for clients wanting a rural setting with a home on a few acres.

The hobby farm thing is usually used because you pay a fraction of the cost of what you would normally pay for a non-farm in property taxes.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

The hobby farm thing is usually used because you pay a fraction of the cost of what you would normally pay for a non-farm in property taxes.

Good catch, MickeyD. Since property tax law varies considerably from state to state, that is a more useful "tool" to property owners in some locations than others.

The other variable that is sometimes very helpful, sometimes very troublesome in different locations in the zoning low. In some places declaring your slightly oversived residential property as a farm means you have more freeedom to park your boat, park your motor home, or build a stand-alone 3 or 4 bay garage where you can work on your cars and motorcycles without the zoning people writing you up.

In another state or city you might find the zoning folks camped out in your driveway because your state passed draconian zoning laws just because of the "hobby farme" folks that abused the freedoms.

"Back in the Day" I think radio people were given something of a free ride on zoning issues. Other than in the big cities, communities looked upon the radio station as a great community asset and didn't overly squeeze them on building codes and zoning. But in this era of "Not In My Back Yard" all radio station owners must feel like they have a target stenciled on the back of all their shirts and jackets because of the public dislike of towers.... even little short ones.

 

[greengrocer]

AM radio is dying because it has been turned into a republicon propaganda machine

 

[b-turner]

I would have to disagree because radio stations are businesses. Yes, many AM stations run what is termed Conservative Talk but this is because they can bring in some cash doing that. If they didn't bring in billing they'd drop the format in a heartbeat. For the most part you are looking for an economical way to run a station so it is easier to turn a profit. Stations, AM or otherwise don't care about the format as long as it pays the bills. Personally I don't know how many more years Conservative talk will work but I suspect talk radio will evolve and the next 'greatest thing' will become widespread.

 

[MickeyD]

AM radio is dying because it has been turned into a republican propaganda machine

Progressive Talk never made a cent. Air America has no sponsors and it stopped paying people. AMs can't play music because teh music fees would kill them and unless you really liek oldies they sound better on FM

 

[davideduardo]

Progressive Talk never made a cent. Air America has no sponsors and it stopped paying people. AMs can't play music because teh music fees would kill them and unless you really liek oldies they sound better on FM

AM's, like FM's, do not pay DCMA music royalties. Both pay ASCAP, BMI and SESAC fees for public performance of the musical compositions. So an AM that plays music pays the same rate as a comparable size station that on FM that plays music.

 

[TheBigA]

A talk station pays for the use of "incidental music."

 

[Kent]

Progressive Talk never made a cent. Air America has no sponsors and it stopped paying people.

Liberal talk does just fine and has had the benefit of being on FM for decades. It's called NPR.

I've always wondered if Air America could've served as a launching point for a progressive talk star if it had had a better business model. Al Franken was probably more in it to start a political career, but either he or Randi Rhodes might have been able to do something if the network had displayed a little common sense. As an example, I had a friend who ran a station that carried Ed Schultz. Despite being in the conservative Ozarks of heavily rural southwest Missouri, Schultz did pretty well. He had no trouble selling out the show. He wanted to see if he could add Franken or Rhodes to his lineup. Air America said no. He had to take both if he wanted one, and he had to run both of them between 6 AM and 6 PM. The only way he could've carried both while keeping the successful parts of his lineup would've been to tape delay Rhodes to 6 PM - 9 PM. That was a deal breaker.