E-Skip in Central Virginia

[memoriesradio]

While driving through Louisa County, VA today around 5:15pm, I passed to the southwest of a passing rainshower. This storm apparently generated some E-skip propagation all the way from Dallas and Waco, TX. The highest frequency for E-skip seemed to be 93.3. I was mobile at the time, so I did have some difficulty ID'ing the DX stations (the DX signals were by no means strong).

I did, however, ID two stations from the mix.

90.9 - KBCI - Dallas, TX - Christian Contemporary - Confirmed through Station Liner and Phone Call to On-Air Jock
You might say that they were quite surprised to hear from a listener in Central Virginia.

92.9 - KRMX - Waco, TX - Country (Shooter FM) - Confirmed through Audible ID and Mention of Waco and Killeen.

This evening around 8:50pm, I ran into another passing thunderstorm in Cartersville, VA (northern Cumberland Country). There was a slight bit of E-skip which brought some interference to locals. The only station that pulled through the mud was
89.1 - KHNE - Hastings, NE - Public Radio (NET Radio) - Confirmed through station liner.

I did notice some E-skip the other day, but I caught it toward the end... Always fun to scan the dial. Believe me when I say that many of my neighbors thought their radios were going bad. Just E-skip.

 

[nd2023]

The storm had nothing to do with the e-skip you got

 

[crainbebo]

Got some low FM skip yesterday on a Global Tuners node in San Antonio, TX. Couldn't get the >92 skip due to IBOC and too much interference. All times Central.

1804: 88.5 WGNV Milladore, WI, ID.
1828: 89.3 WGNB Zeeland, MI, "Moody Radio West Michigan" ID.
1859: 88.9 WVRN Wittenberg, WI, VCY America IDs and local TOH for WVRN.

-crainbebo

 

[nocomradio]

I'm not far from Louisa and we've been getting e-skip and tropo almost daily here, so I doubt it was the storm. I haven't seen any correlation with the storms we have been getting and any changes in reception. Big fronts that move through do have some effect though, especially after Tropical Storm Beryl passed by. Had a nice night of openings then.

I did have a big storm pass South of me the other night and was able to ID WELD-AM from West Virginia for about 20 minutes. They are only 20 Watts nighttime so that was a catch!

 

[Radio-X]

Up here in Fredericksburg, VA around 6:30pm:

100.1 KYKC Ada, OK
101.1 is usually a good signal from WWDC/Washington here. Nothing but WRR-FM/Dallas today
105.3 KZNN (The Country Superstation) Rolla, MO
106.3 KYGL Texarkana, AR
103.9 KKIX Fayetteville, AR

By the end of the evening (around 8:30) the Es was only on the upper end of the dial and I was picking up pretty much Mexican FM's from 104.9-107.9

This is not on my Sony XDR-F1HD...but in bumper-to-bumper DC traffic on a 17 year-old Volvo radio with a built-in glass antenna! Not a bad catch!

Radio-X

 

[ddsparxx]

101.1 is usually a good signal from WWDC/Washington here. Nothing but WRR-FM/Dallas today

No chance to hear any Eskip here in northern VA yesterday evening due to work schedule, but I once heard WRR over WWDC few years ago during an E skip.

 

[stevations]

One theory is that e-skip is caused by wind shear which is related to thunder storms. The thunder storms would be around the half way point of the reception so if you are hearing a station a thousand miles away then 500 miles between is where the wind shear is occurring. Another theory is the peak sunspot cycle tends to have less e-skip.
E-skip is most numerous from early may to early august in the US. The e-skip season starts earlier in the southern US states.

 

[gar hi]

One theory is that e-skip is caused by wind shear which is related to thunder storms. The thunder storms would be around the half way point of the reception so if you are hearing a station a thousand miles away then 500 miles between is where the wind shear is occurring.

I've heard that one too but I've noticed too often that the high frequency Es clouds that cause FM skip have no correlation to areas of thunderstorms if you compare the current weather map at the time.

There's no match between areas of T storms and where the Es clouds form.

 

[stevations]

Is there a website, link or book that proves thunderstorms have nothing to do with Es? Are you saying windshear has nothing to do with Es?

 

[gar hi]

There's nothing that proves thunderstorms cause E Skip.

It's still not known what causes the ionized Es clouds to appear.

All we know is that E Skip happens and in seasonal patterns.

 

[stevations]

So you are saying in your experience there is not match between thunderstorms and E skip. Which means there may be a match but it is just not proven or disproven. I have had seen many matches on tv skip over the years. There is also a north east movement to most E skip clouds similar to wind shear. I know back in the 70s there was a group that studied skip but I forget its name and I am not sure if they made any conclusions. Also there was talk that the sunspot cycle peak produced less E skip. Since we are having alot of solar flares I wonder how people would rate this years E skip season?

 

[nocomradio]

In my totally unprofessional and unscientific opinion, I think that thunderstorms might have very little to do with e-skip. I listen to the radio a lot, and from some pretty distant stations on FM with a large rooftop Yagi and a rotator. I also tend to be a weather junkie, especially watching the radar, as here in central VA in the Summer months we get a LOT of thunderstorms. When there are large storms approaching, generally, nothing on the FM dial changes. Afterwards, sometimes, and that is very occasionally, I can pick up things just a tad further. Nothing to write home about though.

The best e-skip I do get, usually happens with a clear radar picture. After tropical storm Beryl passed by, I did get some odd skip for the day or so after. No thunderstorms here or near the tropical storm though at the time it was happening.

Now the AM dial.................that is a different story. Sometimes between the crashes, I can get all kinds of flea-power stations, but only for a short time. Seems some of those big storms can act like a giant reflector sending signals right to my loop.

 

[w9wi]

My theory (not necessarily scientific either) is that thunderstorms are one of a number of triggers of E-skip. Some openings *are* caused by thunderstorms, some are caused by some other phenomenon; sometimes, a thunderstorm takes us part of the way towards an opening, and something else takes us over the threshold. Or vice-versa.

 

[gar hi]

The only way thunderstorms could have anything to do with E Skip at all, IMO, would be collectively from different individual storm cells across the entire country putting the charges in the upper atmosplere that then get distributed over a great distance.

That's a lot different from saying that a specific line or cluster of thunderstorms will cause E Skip in a given location.

 

[nocomradio]

One thought that occurred to me, is that it probably has more to do with atmospheric temperature than anything. I say this because when e-skip opens up here in VA, it tends to be in milder weather. Very cold or extreme heat (like now at 100+ degrees daytime) tends to not have any effect. The opening after Beryl was with daytime temps in the high 70's and low 80's. I also had a big and lengthy opening near Christmas of last year, and that was one of the mildest Winters we've had in years. Daytime highs were in the 50's and sometimes even 60's and nighttime lows were in the mid 40's. Throughout the months of October through February, we had sporadic e-skip.

I don't doubt that thunderstorms do have an effect, but I suspect as mentioned above, many other things have to sort of come into alignment to create just the right conditions for everything to happen.

 

[dx1ng]

I don't see how E skip can be influenced, caused, or affected by any kind of weather including thunderstoms. Weather occurs in the lower 10 miles of the atmosphere, basically in the troposphere, and skip occurs in the E layer of the ionosphere, about 65 miles (100 km) up. There is no weather up there. Thunderstorms are 60 miles below the ionosphere. I've seen no correlation what-so-ever between thunderstoms and skip. There's skip when there's thunderstorms and skip without thunderstoms. There's skip in areas of few or no thunderstorms, and there's skip where there are thunderstorms virtually every day.
About the only thing I would say is that the sun is a major influence on weather and the sun has influence on atmospheric ionizaton and hence sporadic E skip (Es). But the weather and skip have no influence on each other.

Meanwhile.... I would like to know why this year as in most years, Europe gets more occurances of E skip and stronger E skip than the US. I see this year after year, and I wish I knew why.

On the other hand, VHF and UHF tropospheric enhancement and tropospheric ducting is entirely connected to weather.

 

[w9wi]

There have been reports (from space probes) of electrical discharges from the *top* of thunderstorms up into the ionosphere.

That's certainly not proof that storms cause skip, but it does mean it's possible.

 

[stevations]

I noticed the thunderstorms would occur at the half way point of the reception....about 500 miles away while getting a station 1,000 miles away. People from the area I was receiving would be getting stations in my area. Sometimes I would look for stations if the weather map showed thunderstorms 500 miles away which may be a self fulfilling prophecy but other times I would get stations and then look at the maps. I remember I got Miami stations in PA and then noticed that the only storms on the East Coast of US were over Wilmington NC which was half way between the stations and my location. Many times I noticed Florida reception, then Alabama, then Missouri and then Minnesota from PA. I think wind shear also travels in a north west direction.

 

[nocomradio]

I don't see how E skip can be influenced, caused, or affected by any kind of weather including thunderstoms. Weather occurs in the lower 10 miles of the atmosphere.....

True, but I also believe that there are still more things at play than we currently understand. The atmosphere, as stratified as it is has to work together at some point. Given that, I think it isn't a stretch to say that storms do have some effect. How much is open for debate, however.

 

[gar hi]

I noticed the thunderstorms would occur at the half way point of the reception....about 500 miles away while getting a station 1,000 miles away. People from the area I was receiving would be getting stations in my area. Sometimes I would look for stations if the weather map showed thunderstorms 500 miles away which may be a self fulfilling prophecy but other times I would get stations and then look at the maps. I remember I got Miami stations in PA and then noticed that the only storms on the East Coast of US were over Wilmington NC which was half way between the stations and my location. Many times I noticed Florida reception, then Alabama, then Missouri and then Minnesota from PA. I think wind shear also travels in a north west direction.

I've noticed no such correlation with thunderstorms at the halfway point of reception, according to the online real time E Skip maps.

Remember that sometimes all it takes is a couple of correlations to assume causation but we forget the times there is no correlation.

When I lived in New Jersey and would watch E Skip on TV, I also noticed a general pattern of Florida in the late morning and then southern locations to the west, then the midwest, and then sometimes Canada by late afternoon/early evening.

I think that has more to do with the pattern of daylight.

Also notice how E Skip doesn't happen or at least is very rare during the overnight hours.

Think about it. If thunderstorms at the halfway point caused E Skip, Florida should be the focal point for the halfway point of much of the E Skip reception but it's sure not.

Most of the E Skip happens with central points of skip in the northern to central US and in places out west that are often dry as a bone without any thunderstorm activity.