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EAS Susceptible to HD-AM Sideband Interference

D

dumber than a box of hair

An engineer from Rhode Island posted on a broadcasting remailer I subscribe to that some of his stations monitor WBZ for EAS. (WBZ is a National Primary station, meaning that they will receive alerts directly from the White House in any kind of national emergency.) He stated that he's having problems receiving WBZ's tests and alerts in the clear during certain times of day, because the HD carriers from first-adjacent KDKA (another National Primary station) are interfering with WBZ's analog audio.

(Yes, Bob Savage, I know...poetic justice...)

He has complained to the FCC about this. With EAS being one of the few things the FCC purports to really care about (possibly because it makes them so much money in fines from stations that don't comply), could this be the final nail in HD-AM's coffin?
 
dumber than a box of hair said:
could this be the final nail in HD-AM's coffin?
Click to expand...

I have an idea for a new drinking game! Every time someone on this board uses the words "final nail" and "coffin" in a thread, we all take a shot.
 
They must be Massachusetts rimshotters. I can't think of any Mass. stations with studios in R.I. except for 1320/WARL & 93.3/WSNE-FM which would be ironic because it is an IBOC station.
 
I think we'll all get a lot drunker a lot faster if we play a drinking game requiring shots every time we see one of these terms posted:

CD-quality for FM
FM quality for AM
Noise-free
Digital coverage absolutely the equivalent of analog
You aren't entitled to any coverage outside your protected contour
Naysayers
Luddites
XXXX million HD receivers sold
XXXX million HD chipsets sold
I can't hear any interference
If there is interference, it isn't too bad
The interference is the fault of the victim station, which is invariably operated by a liar and/or
incompetent naysaving Luddite obstructionist small-time operator
The era of skywave service for AM is over
DXers
Hobbyists (or, more frequently, "hobbyests")
No dropouts
No problems syncing the analog and digital audio using delays
FCC has never gotten any adjacent-channel complaints
If they have gotten complaints, they are never valid
Push past the problems and "embrace digital"
It's a digital world, like it or not
Radio is the last service which hasn't gone digital, it's being left behind
It's not just HD, it's radio that has problems (with the implicit suggestion HD will fix them all)
Savage's problems aren't WBZ-HD, it's because his station never should have been licensed
Living in the past

.....and so on.
 
Savage said:
I think we'll all get a lot drunker a lot faster if we play a drinking game requiring shots every time we see one of these terms posted:

CD-quality for FM
FM quality for AM
Noise-free
Digital coverage absolutely the equivalent of analog
You aren't entitled to any coverage outside your protected contour
Naysayers
Luddites
XXXX million HD receivers sold
XXXX million HD chipsets sold
I can't hear any interference
If there is interference, it isn't too bad
The interference is the fault of the victim station, which is invariably operated by a liar and/or
incompetent naysaving Luddite obstructionist small-time operator
The era of skywave service for AM is over
DXers
Hobbyists (or, more frequently, "hobbyests")
No dropouts
No problems syncing the analog and digital audio using delays
FCC has never gotten any adjacent-channel complaints
If they have gotten complaints, they are never valid
Push past the problems and "embrace digital"
It's a digital world, like it or not
Radio is the last service which hasn't gone digital, it's being left behind
It's not just HD, it's radio that has problems (with the implicit suggestion HD will fix them all)
Savage's problems aren't WBZ-HD, it's because his station never should have been licensed
Living in the past

.....and so on.
Click to expand...

Mr. Savage, you are too much! I'm already getting tipsy just reading this list and it's only 10:45 in the morning here (PST).
 
I'll add:

It meets the mask
It not only meets, but EXCEEDS the mask
Dramatically improved audio
Crystal-clear high definition
Tremendous technological leap
All digital, all the time

By the way, I made a trip to Washington earlier this week and had an opportunity to attempt to listen to the so-called "Quadracasting" on WJFK 106.7. Adjacent-channel digital interference from WWMX 106.5 in Baltimore is horrendous along most of Rt 295, the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, degrading analog reception of WJFK even as close to DC as the Beltway. No consistent lock of WJFK's HD signal along that road either.

Since stations are owned by CBS, it's self-inflicted torture, similar to the WBZ/KDKA situation.
 
(Slurp. Glug. HIC.)

Did I mention there isn't any interference?? Damn schtraight there isn't any. Annnnd...I don' care. Even the interference that duzzzint exist is worth it. It's DIGGITAL, dammit! Gotta go digital. Digital, or it's buggy-whip time. Never got a complaint about noise. NOT.....(hic)...one. And anybody that says different is a LIAR! Like that friggin' Savage guy. Hey...GUY!! Get it?? Guy Wire sure put HIM in his place. Gotta stop living in the past. EMBRACE, baby! (Pounds bar loudly) DIGITALLLL!

Hey, don' look at me like that. Got no problem with this stuff. Let me tell ya, buster....I can take it or leave it alone. (Cellphone rings.) Waiddda minnit.

Whatsa problem? What? The HD-2's off? Since when? TUESDAY??!?? (String of obscenities) Hey, tell the PD where he can shove it. Yeah. As soon as I can. HEY!! Keep yer shirt on, I'll get to it!!

Hey...ya know what else? Screw KDKA. Little small-market pipsqueak. It's over for them. Friggin AM....

.....and so on.....
 
The action the Feds are likely to take would be to move the EAS primary to a closer FM station. It would be highly illogical to dismiss WBZ's (more than likely) robust backup facilities and theoretical nighttime coverage, but then the FCC isn't very logical these days.
 
Woooo...not feelin' so great this morning. Hey: how about "a little hair of the dog that bit you??"

*Best Buy ordered 5000 portable HD Insignias! (Nationally.) The future of HD is secure!
*Eric Rhoads had 1000 Insignias sprayed red and sold them to unsuspecting radio people. The future of HD is secure!
*Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Jag, Rover, Volvo, and Toyota all include HD Radio as part of nav-com entertainment option packages priced at $1000 to $6000! The future of HD Radio is secure!
*We heard GM seat covers give off some kind of poison gas
*Same deal with Chrysler
*Every single 2011 Ford shipped will have HD standard! The future of HD is secure!
(Even though nobody's ever talked to a Ford dealer who has ever heard of HD. And my office manager's 2011 Focus doesn't have HD....ahh, details, details.....)
*The $7000 worth of air tools, the gantry crane, the auto-interior artisan and the exorcist have all been removed from Tom Ray's garage - meaning he finally got aftermarket HD installed in his Ford Focus!! (Never mind the wisecracks about how you thought "all 2011 Fords will have HD installed standard," smart guy.) The future of HD is secure!
*AM-HD is having a few glitches but it's actually doing pretty well! (Even though in 2009 there were 292 AM stations broadcasting in HD and now there are 235....not really a problem....)
*HD continues slow but steady growth on FM! (Even though there hasn't been an all-new HD signal launched domestically in months....it's all good, no worries....)
*That digital power increase that nobody wants to talk about publicly any more was a HUGE success! (Even though only SIX percent of FMs bothered! It's a MIRACLE!!!)

HD Radio: the industry's self-inflicted twelve-step program.
 
Zach said:
The action the Feds are likely to take would be to move the EAS primary to a closer FM station. It would be highly illogical to dismiss WBZ's (more than likely) robust backup facilities and theoretical nighttime coverage, but then the FCC isn't very logical these days.
Click to expand...

And let's not forget the CAP clock is now running. It'll be along shortly.

Doesn't work when the Internet is down you say? I'd be willing to bet backup Internet connections for CAP will be the FCC's next mandate.
 
radiogooroo said:
Doesn't work when the Internet is down you say? I'd be willing to bet backup Internet connections for CAP will be the FCC's next mandate.
Click to expand...

Would that be the same Internet that our president wants to have the authority to shut down, with no judicial review or recourse? I can see it now: There's a national emergency, the White House sends out an EAN, but half the stations in the country don't get it because their Internet connection was just shut down by that same White House.

Left hand, meet right hand.
 
Not "President," Hair. It's "Premier."

Jeez, we need AM more than ever. Which is why HD-AM should be shut down immediately.
 
Since there are NO "HD-ONLY" AM radios, it is my engineering opinion that all HD shut be shut-down when an EAS alert goes out on the national EAS stations on the big boys that have the sealed government 'black box' on the transmitter - like WBZ does.
Also, what if WBZ is running their backup transmitter - what happends to the built-in black box on their HD transmitter? Does it still go out?
That is a big question my friends, what happens when they're on their working backup transmitters and a national alert comes out?
From what I've read, the government put the sealed black box "on" their transmitter.
WBZ, KDKA - what's up with that?
 
dumber than a box of hair said:
Would that be the same Internet that our president wants to have the authority to shut down
Click to expand...

Sort of OT - but where did that idea come from? The net neutrality rule actually prevents individual transit providers from shutting down the Internet. Or, in reality - shutting down a portion of the Internet. Like what happened to Cogent a few years ago and what almost happened to Level3 last year.

Dave B.
 
DaveBayArea said:
dumber than a box of hair said:
Would that be the same Internet that our president wants to have the authority to shut down
Click to expand...

Sort of OT - but where did that idea come from? The net neutrality rule actually prevents individual transit providers from shutting down the Internet. Or, in reality - shutting down a portion of the Internet. Like what happened to Cogent a few years ago and what almost happened to Level3 last year.

Dave B.
Click to expand...

That idea was spawned by the White House because there's a risk that a massive cyber attack could bring down our internet infrastructure in an online terror attack. The idea is to shut down access to government and related computer systems (it would NOT shut down the civilian internet as a whole) to protect them and stop them if they are infected and acting as part of a botnet/coordinated hijacking.
 
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