East Coast "Drake"--failure, or the biggest influence ever?

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

I moved this up from the thread below because it warrants a new thread--possibly misplaced, but i will leave that to the ahnds of those who decide such things.

> > Boston------WMEX and WBZ
>
> Don't forget WRKO...they knocked WBZ off the the top in
> their first book, and out of the format in less than a year.
> 'RKO ruled the market until FM took over in the mid 70s.

This brings up an interesting point:

After the WOR-FM situation, where Drake was given the FM by RKO to do with what he wished--the thinking being he'd do a KHJ thing there--and WOR-FM's perceived failure vs. WABC, it became general opinion the Drake radio couldn't survive on the East Coast; that it was a West Coast thing for surfers and "valley guys" and that the intelligensia on the East Coast liked their personality top 40, and the long PAMS jingles, and the countdowns, and Cousin Brucie, etc.

But, here's the facts:

WRKO knocked off WBZ within a book, and out totally within a year. CKLW knocked off WKNR in similar fashion, though it wasn't out until 1972.

WFIL knocked perennial Philly power WIBG out of the top when Famous 56 started in 1966. By 1968, BOTH were doing Drake radio--WFIL under Jay Cook as "Boss," and WIBG under Drake disciple Paul Drew with the Johnny Mann sound (they *may* have been PAMS jingles, but they were the Drake-Mann sound).

KQV in Pittsburgh was dominant under John Rook, but KDKA didn't give up their top 40 until 1968, after Rook (and John Borders) added some "Drake" elements.

WLS beat WCFL after Rook "Drakeified" the Big 89 in 1968.

WIXY/Cleveland beat WKYC almost from the start, but WKYC hung on until 1968 as well--and wasn't dead until they BOTH tried Drake elements. WIXY survived.

And in 1968, after the national trend and after both WOR-FM and WMCA (under Terrell Metheny) brought Drake elements to NYC, even Rick Sklar could see the writing on the wall. WABC shortened their jingles, emphasized more music, and shut up some of the extraneous DJ patter.

So, where exactly was Drake a failure? Besides Cincinnati...

 

[gr8oldies]

WOR-FM and WABC is not an apples-to-apples comparison. There was comparatively little FM penetration, and almost none in cars. Give Drake WOR-AM and it might have been a whole different ballgame! <P ID="signature">______________
Have a Happy New Year!
http://www.thebig8.net/have_a_happy_new_year_with_cklw.mp3</P>

 

[OldiesCat]

"Drake"--failure

I'm not sure "Drake" and "failure" belong in the same sentence.

 

[OldiesCat]

> WOR-FM and WABC is not an apples-to-apples comparison. There
> was comparatively little FM penetration, and almost none in
> cars. Give Drake WOR-AM and it might have been a whole
> different ballgame!
>

 

[Oldbones]

> WOR-FM and WABC is not an apples-to-apples comparison. There
> was comparatively little FM penetration, and almost none in
> cars. Give Drake WOR-AM and it might have been a whole
> different ballgame!
>

Maybe, maybe not...Rick Sklar was no slouch as a PD, and he had a strong airstaff. New York was and is a world unto itself, and WABC was very "New York". What they did would not likely have worked much of anywhere else, but the reverse holds true too.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> WOR-FM and WABC is not an apples-to-apples comparison. There
> was comparatively little FM penetration, and almost none in
> cars. Give Drake WOR-AM and it might have been a whole
> different ballgame!
>

Don't get me wrong--I wasn't comparing. I was actually using that discrepancy to show that regardless of FM penetration in NYC, Drake still had a HUGE influence over WABC--even though he never went full Drake top 40 on WOR-FM until almost two years later (1969), and it was on FM against a 50kw AM.

And I agree, WOR vs. WABC would have been VERY interesting indeed. Though the blue hairs would have killed Drake for taking off their AM favorite John Gambling and the effervescent Jean Sheperd.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: "Drake"--failure

> I'm not sure "Drake" and "failure" belong in the same
> sentence.
>

Absolutely correct--and exactly my point. The man was a programming genius.

 

[miamimadman]

"Drake"--failure--Letter--Jingles

> Absolutely correct--and exactly my point. The man was a
> programming genius.

And I had the chance to meet him at Drake-Chenault, during the time Elvis died. Either he's very tall, or I'm very small, or both?

And I agree with what the Oldies Cat said above, well at least his second 5:12PM posting!

Here's a great Drake letter and Johnny Mann Jingles (lots of them)

http://www.johnnymannsingers.com/drakelet.htm

 

[channelsurf]

The Boston AM Top 40 war....

The whole Boston 60s Top 40 battle was kind of weird. Through 1966, you had 50,000 watt 1030-WBZ, which blanketed 2/3 of the USA, at night, and highly directional 5000 watt 1510-WMEX. WMEX sounded similar to many of the mid 60s Top 40 stations, while WBZ seemed to have kind of a unique more adult approach, to the format. Also, by 1966, for whatever reason, WBZ interrupted the Top 40 format, with a talk show, every weekday evening, Bob Kennedy's Contact, from 6-8PM. In March 1967, 50,000 watt, but highly directional 680-WRKO debuted. If you lived 40 miles west of Boston, as I did, at that time, WRKO and WMEX were essentially inaudible, while WBZ blasted in, 24/7. I've always wondered why WBZ, simply didn't get their programming act, much more together, than they did. I also understand, that it was widely known for some time, that WRKO was getting ready to debut, so they had plenty of warning. They should have been able to with stand WRKO, with that amazing signal. However, they went MOR, in 1968. By late
1967, WRKO had improved their day time pattern considerably, so that it was competitive with WBZ, but they still had little signal, west of Boston, after sunset. WMEX went to a highly directional 50,000 watts, in 1969. It sent all of its signal, up the coast to Maine, and out to sea! It continued to have a terrible daytime signal, west of Boston. However, after 1967, it was a WRKO/WMEX war in Boston, with WRKO usually prevailing. 1260-WEZE, which had a good 5000 watt signal, jumped into the format in 1973-1974, doing a Top 40/Oldies hybrid format. They sounded good, but went back to MOR, in 1974. WMEX went MOR, in 1975, and WRKO lasted until 1981, when they went back to talk.
Prior to 1967, 680 was WNAC, a talk station....


I moved this up from the thread below because it warrants a
> new thread--possibly misplaced, but i will leave that to the
> ahnds of those who decide such things.
>
> > > Boston------WMEX and WBZ
> >
> > Don't forget WRKO...they knocked WBZ off the the top in
> > their first book, and out of the format in less than a
> year.
> > 'RKO ruled the market until FM took over in the mid 70s.
>
> This brings up an interesting point:
>
> After the WOR-FM situation, where Drake was given the FM by
> RKO to do with what he wished--the thinking being he'd do a
> KHJ thing there--and WOR-FM's perceived failure vs. WABC, it
> became general opinion the Drake radio couldn't survive on
> the East Coast; that it was a West Coast thing for surfers
> and "valley guys" and that the intelligensia on the East
> Coast liked their personality top 40, and the long PAMS
> jingles, and the countdowns, and Cousin Brucie, etc.
>
> But, here's the facts:
>
> WRKO knocked off WBZ within a book, and out totally within a
> year. CKLW knocked off WKNR in similar fashion, though it
> wasn't out until 1972.
>
> WFIL knocked perennial Philly power WIBG out of the top when
> Famous 56 started in 1966. By 1968, BOTH were doing Drake
> radio--WFIL under Jay Cook as "Boss," and WIBG under Drake
> disciple Paul Drew with the Johnny Mann sound (they *may*
> have been PAMS jingles, but they were the Drake-Mann sound).
>
>
> KQV in Pittsburgh was dominant under John Rook, but KDKA
> didn't give up their top 40 until 1968, after Rook (and John
> Borders) added some "Drake" elements.
>
> WLS beat WCFL after Rook "Drakeified" the Big 89 in 1968.
>
> WIXY/Cleveland beat WKYC almost from the start, but WKYC
> hung on until 1968 as well--and wasn't dead until they BOTH
> tried Drake elements. WIXY survived.
>
> And in 1968, after the national trend and after both WOR-FM
> and WMCA (under Terrell Metheny) brought Drake elements to
> NYC, even Rick Sklar could see the writing on the wall.
> WABC shortened their jingles, emphasized more music, and
> shut up some of the extraneous DJ patter.
>
> So, where exactly was Drake a failure? Besides
> Cincinnati...
>

 

[Oldbones]

Re: The Boston AM Top 40 war....

> The whole Boston 60s Top 40 battle was kind of weird.
> Through 1966, you had 50,000 watt 1030-WBZ, which blanketed
> 2/3 of the USA, at night, and highly directional 5000 watt
> 1510-WMEX. WMEX sounded similar to many of the mid 60s Top
> 40 stations, while WBZ seemed to have kind of a unique more
> adult approach, to the format. Also, by 1966, for whatever
> reason, WBZ interrupted the Top 40 format, with a talk show,
> every weekday evening, Bob Kennedy's Contact, from 6-8PM.

WMEX also did evening talk...I think 10-midnight, I also think they did talk overnights for a while (wasn't Larry Glick their overnight guy in the mid-60s?). Maybe they figured most of the "kids" were in bed by then.



> March 1967, 50,000 watt, but highly directional 680-WRKO
> debuted. If you lived 40 miles west of Boston, as I did, at
> that time, WRKO and WMEX were essentially inaudible, while
> WBZ blasted in, 24/7. I've always wondered why WBZ, simply
> didn't get their programming act, much more together, than
> they did. I also understand, that it was widely known for
> some time, that WRKO was getting ready to debut, so they had
> plenty of warning. They should have been able to with stand
> WRKO, with that amazing signal. However, they went MOR, in
> 1968.

They did, sorta...they started calling themselves the "Boss Sound of Boss Town" in early '67...probably to prevent WRKO from using "Boss Radio" like they did at KHJ. I heard that the Westinghouse suits put the lid on a full-bore Top 40 approach, preferring the adult-leaning personality style. None of WBZ's airstaff was exactly in the demo either...I think they were all in their 30s & 40s. Of course we all know what happened in WRKO's first book.

You had to hand it to Max Richmond at WMEX though...despite severe signal limitations he put up a good fight, coming very close to WRKO for a couple years in the early 70s. When he died, the wheels basically came off WMEX despite some mistakes by WRKO (notably their hybrid-AOR/Top 40 experiment in '71/72).

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Re: The Boston AM Top 40 war....

> The whole Boston 60s Top 40 battle was kind of weird.
> Through 1966, you had 50,000 watt 1030-WBZ, which blanketed
> 2/3 of the USA, at night, and highly directional 5000 watt
> 1510-WMEX. WMEX sounded similar to many of the mid 60s Top
> 40 stations, while WBZ seemed to have kind of a unique more
> adult approach, to the format. Also, by 1966, for whatever
> reason, WBZ interrupted the Top 40 format, with a talk show,
> every weekday evening, Bob Kennedy's Contact, from 6-8PM. In
> March 1967, 50,000 watt, but highly directional 680-WRKO
> debuted. If you lived 40 miles west of Boston, as I did, at
> that time, WRKO and WMEX were essentially inaudible, while
> WBZ blasted in, 24/7. I've always wondered why WBZ, simply
> didn't get their programming act, much more together, than
> they did. I also understand, that it was widely known for
> some time, that WRKO was getting ready to debut, so they had
> plenty of warning. They should have been able to with stand
> WRKO, with that amazing signal. However, they went MOR, in
> 1968.

WBZ was trying to be all things to all people, both a Top 40 station and a full-service adult station. WRKO was focused on Top 40 and was programmed with the Drake package. WBZ was somewhat diluted as a Top 40 station by trying to also be an adult full-service station, so that's why a focused Top 40 approach from WRKO could come in and trounce them for the younger demo in Boston.

> after 1967, it was a WRKO/WMEX war in Boston, with WRKO
> usually prevailing. 1260-WEZE, which had a good 5000 watt
> signal, jumped into the format in 1973-1974, doing a Top
> 40/Oldies hybrid format. They sounded good, but went back to
> MOR, in 1974. WMEX went MOR, in 1975, and WRKO lasted until
> 1981, when they went back to talk.

Actually, 1510 was Top 40 until the end of the WMEX call letters in 1975. Their last format as WMEX in 1974 and 1975 was an extremely bubblegum Top 40 approach, very heavy airplay of teenybopper stuff like "The Night Chicago Died" (Paper Lace), "Billy Don't Be A Hero" (The Heywoods), etc...

1510 completely dropped music in 1975 and, with a transmitter move from Quincy on Boston's South Shore to Waltham in the immediate west suburbs, became WITS "Information, Talk, Sports" for a few years, then went MOR/Big Band/Nostalgia as WMRE "Memories 1510" (which also included the great "Little Walter's Time Machine" 50's oldies show weekend nights) until the mid-80's.

The Waltham 50 kW transmitter site still had to be extremely directional, essentially beaming most of the signal east over Boston and out to sea, especially at night. At least the new location allowed it to cover a few of the immediate west suburbs before it faded out just farther to the west.

After what seemed like a million format, call letter and ownership changes, 1510 has recently been barely floating along for a number of years as Boston's also-ran sports station WWZN "The Zone", running the Sporting News Radio network, and not showing up in the Boston ratings at all.

 

[channelsurf]

Not exactly....

Actually WMEX went MOR in March, 1975....trust me on that one. They advertised kind of heavily too..."Come on up to 1510". In any case, in 1976, they evolved to talk. The WITS call letters (Information, Talk, Sports) didn't appear until 1978. ThAT lasted until 1982, when it flipped to nostalgia, as WMRE.

>
> Actually, 1510 was Top 40 until the end of the WMEX call
> letters in 1975. Their last format as WMEX in 1974 and 1975
> was an extremely bubblegum Top 40 approach, very heavy
> airplay of teenybopper stuff like "The Night Chicago Died"
> (Paper Lace), "Billy Don't Be A Hero" (The Heywoods), etc...
>
>
> 1510 completely dropped music in 1975 and, with a
> transmitter move from Quincy on Boston's South Shore to
> Waltham in the immediate west suburbs, became WITS
> "Information, Talk, Sports" for a few years, then went
> MOR/Big Band/Nostalgia as WMRE "Memories 1510" (which also
> included the great "Little Walter's Time Machine" 50's
> oldies show weekend nights) until the mid-80's.
>
> The Waltham 50 kW transmitter site still had to be extremely
> directional, essentially beaming most of the signal east
> over Boston and out to sea, especially at night. At least
> the new location allowed it to cover a few of the immediate
> west suburbs before it faded out just farther to the west.
>
> After what seemed like a million format, call letter and
> ownership changes, 1510 has recently been barely floating
> along for a number of years as Boston's also-ran sports
> station WWZN "The Zone", running the Sporting News Radio
> network, and not showing up in the Boston ratings at all.
>

 

[peppertree]

One difference in WOR-FM is that it is the ONLY FM that you mentioned. Is it possible that Americans and particularly New Yorkers were not ready for an FM top 40 station in 1968? Maybe if it was done with an AM station in New York, it might have worked.

Rick Sklar battled ABC network for many years, to get the old fashioned pre-television style radio shows off of his station. He did not succeed until 1968. Then WABC proclaimed, "The most music on WABC." I think that was what brought about the changes, and not a reaction to Drake style Top 40.

In Miami, WQAM was anti-Drake and WFUN was Drake influenced, but WQAM won more often. They did have a little better signal to outlying areas though.


> I moved this up from the thread below because it warrants a
> new thread--possibly misplaced, but i will leave that to the
> ahnds of those who decide such things.
>
> > > Boston------WMEX and WBZ
> >
> > Don't forget WRKO...they knocked WBZ off the the top in
> > their first book, and out of the format in less than a
> year.
> > 'RKO ruled the market until FM took over in the mid 70s.
>
> This brings up an interesting point:
>
> After the WOR-FM situation, where Drake was given the FM by
> RKO to do with what he wished--the thinking being he'd do a
> KHJ thing there--and WOR-FM's perceived failure vs. WABC, it
> became general opinion the Drake radio couldn't survive on
> the East Coast; that it was a West Coast thing for surfers
> and "valley guys" and that the intelligensia on the East
> Coast liked their personality top 40, and the long PAMS
> jingles, and the countdowns, and Cousin Brucie, etc.
>
> But, here's the facts:
>
> WRKO knocked off WBZ within a book, and out totally within a
> year. CKLW knocked off WKNR in similar fashion, though it
> wasn't out until 1972.
>
> WFIL knocked perennial Philly power WIBG out of the top when
> Famous 56 started in 1966. By 1968, BOTH were doing Drake
> radio--WFIL under Jay Cook as "Boss," and WIBG under Drake
> disciple Paul Drew with the Johnny Mann sound (they *may*
> have been PAMS jingles, but they were the Drake-Mann sound).
>
>
> KQV in Pittsburgh was dominant under John Rook, but KDKA
> didn't give up their top 40 until 1968, after Rook (and John
> Borders) added some "Drake" elements.
>
> WLS beat WCFL after Rook "Drakeified" the Big 89 in 1968.
>
> WIXY/Cleveland beat WKYC almost from the start, but WKYC
> hung on until 1968 as well--and wasn't dead until they BOTH
> tried Drake elements. WIXY survived.
>
> And in 1968, after the national trend and after both WOR-FM
> and WMCA (under Terrell Metheny) brought Drake elements to
> NYC, even Rick Sklar could see the writing on the wall.
> WABC shortened their jingles, emphasized more music, and
> shut up some of the extraneous DJ patter.
>
> So, where exactly was Drake a failure? Besides
> Cincinnati...
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[uncamark]

Re: The Boston AM Top 40 war....

> > The whole Boston 60s Top 40 battle was kind of weird.
> > Through 1966, you had 50,000 watt 1030-WBZ, which
> blanketed
> > 2/3 of the USA, at night, and highly directional 5000 watt
>
> > 1510-WMEX. WMEX sounded similar to many of the mid 60s Top
>
> > 40 stations, while WBZ seemed to have kind of a unique
> more
> > adult approach, to the format. Also, by 1966, for whatever
>
> > reason, WBZ interrupted the Top 40 format, with a talk
> show,
> > every weekday evening, Bob Kennedy's Contact, from 6-8PM.
>
> WMEX also did evening talk...I think 10-midnight, I also
> think they did talk overnights for a while (wasn't Larry
> Glick their overnight guy in the mid-60s?). Maybe they
> figured most of the "kids" were in bed by then.

"Contact" was Westinghouse's house talk show title--all of their stations that didn't do all-news did an evening talk show with that title. WIND in Chicago had Dave Baum doing "Contact" from 10 p.m. to midnight and did very well with it, especially since WGN's "Extension 720" ended at 10:30 p.m. and WBBM stopped all-news at 11:30 p.m. for "Music 'til Dawn" into the 70s (with WGN competing with first "Franklyn McCormick's Meister Brau Showcase" and then Jay Andres, the former host of "Music 'til Dawn," with "Great Music From Chicago"). In Philadelphia, where KYW was all-news, the "Contact" title was used for a TV show, hosted by some guy named Tom Snyder.

 

[fennessy]

As both a huge KHJ fan and a Philly native, I want to jump in and share some insights into Drake/Boss Radio, and what happened in Philadelphia. Those who criticize Drake radio the most, do so based on having heard those who IMITATED Drake and KHJ...they were the people who didn't get it, not Drake, Ron Jacobs and crew. Drake Top 40 extended the life of the mass audience to Top 40, by making CHR more palatible to Rock radio's first generation...blending in Oldies, and making Top 40 cleaner and more sixties focused in presentation, rather than an extension of the fifties. Drake had real personalities on KHJ...the imitators hired voices to perform the formatics. KHJ immediately re-positioned KRLA as jive and corny, and KFWB as History...which they were in less than three years as a Top 40 station.

The Philadelphia story is different.

WIBG, despite having significant signal problems especially at night, was the long term venerable Top 40 into 1966...basically sounding unchanged since 1957, chatty, a 99 song current playlist, jocks who were as old as the parents of Top 40's target audience, and overall pretty lethargic. WIBG had fended off a challenge in the format in 1961 by WIP, and following that, no one dared go near Wibbage. Until September 18, 1966, when WFIL converted to top 40.

Just as KHJ had done, WFIL had younger fresher jocks, a fast paced presentation, and the psychological emphasis not on the jocks, but on the music. The Wibbage good guys were talking about their golf games, while WFIL went right after the teens and 18-34. The Wibbage survey in the stores was a plain sheet of white paper with a WIBG logo sporting a gas lamp. The WFIL survey was loud bold and contemporary.WFIL introduced Philadelphia to big money cash giveaways, WFIL was on every cab top, billboard, newspaper ad, and may have been the first radio station to use TV in Philadelphia to build cume.

By February of 1968, it was almost all over for WIBG. WFIL changed morning people, and hired Dr. Don Rose from WQXI...a former colleague and good friend of Paul Drew. Drew, an understudy to Bill Drake, was programming CKLW...where WIBG's owner, Storer Broadcasting, had a radio station in Detroit, WJBK. Storer hired Drew to convert WIBG to modern sounding top 40, driven by the sound and formatics of CKLW.

By this time, although sounding nothing like a Drake station, WFIL was calling itself ' Boss Radio" on the air. When Drew was announced for WIBG, WFIL ( with a little help from Rose) went to school on Drew, and what he might do at WIBG.

WFIL immediately shortened it's playlist from 56 titles to 30, started playing more Gold, the survey became The Boss 30, the jocks became The Boss Jocks, the weekends became The Million Dollar Weekend, and claimed a lot of Drew's act before he arrived.

In the middle of the April-May '68 book, Drew replaced the announcing staff, with the exception of Joe Niagara and Ray Gilmore, and hired an entirely new news department for the launch of WIBG 20/20 News.

WFIL, mindful of the parade of on air contesting Drew did at CKLW, began it's own parade of the same contests...before they hit the air on the Big 99. In WFIL's Beat The Bomb contest, they deliberately ran the contest, and gave away embarrassingly low amounts of money. Having given away $5000 at a pop previously in contests, I have an aircheck where WFIL's Dave Parks plays Beat The Bomb and awards $4.00 ( four dollars). Making Drew look even sillier when WIBG ran it.

When WIBG ran it's weekend-long All Time Top 300, they took out a full-page ad in the Bulletin afternoon newspaper listing the songs in order...and WFIL played those records in order, one song ahead of WIBG the entire weekend. WFIL's jocks were real personalities...WIBG's jocks were voices which were interchangable...and the average life expectancy of a jock at WIBG under Drew was 3 months. In October 1969, Storer sold WIBG and Drew and any semblence of that kind of radio were gone.

WFIL was never Drake...and WIBG was never a KHJ or even a CKLW, just a failed clone. Also, Jay Cook did not become Program Director of WFIL until after all of this. The original PD was Jim Hilliard, followed by Lee Sherwood, then Cook.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by fennessy on 02/02/06 02:59 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Re: WIBG vs WFIL

Thanks for a very detailed analysis of the format wars between WIBBAGE and WFIL. Though I don't know about the age of all the WIBG jocks, but I know Hy Lit was in his late 20s when he returned to WIBG in 1962, Joe Niagra was in his early 30s, Bill Wright Sr was an older guy, Ray Gilmore had to be in his 20s and Jerry Stevens definitely was in his 20s.

I wasn't listening very much to them in the late 60s but I do remember that WIBG had their survey called The Big 30 or something like that. When they had their Top 99, they didn't play all 99 songs but they must have had a playlist of around 50 titles. That's pretty funny about the countdown weekend, I missed that. As a teen in Central New Jersey (New Brunswick home of Rutgers Univ) I preferred the WIBG of '62-'67 more than WABC, WINS, and WMCA although I listened to all of them too. Because of the WIBG-AM night signal after sunset they were unlistenable on AM in New Brunswick (60 miles away) BUT I did listen to them much more on WIBG-FM 94.1 (?) until they split the AM/FM signals (mandated by the FCC) in 1967. So I listened less to them after 1966 and found WOR-FM. I was never much of a WFIL listener.


Again, thanks for a good read!~!

> The Philadelphia story is different.
>
> WIBG, despite having significant signal problems especially
> at night, was the long term venerable Top 40 into
> 1966...basically sounding unchanged since 1957, chatty, a 99
> song current playlist, jocks who were as old as the parents
> of Top 40's target audience, and overall pretty lethargic.
> WIBG had fended off a challenge in the format in 1961 by
> WIP, and following that, no one dared go near Wibbage. Until
> September 18, 1966, when WFIL converted to top 40.
>
> Just as KHJ had done, WFIL had younger fresher jocks, a fast
> paced presentation, and the psychological emphasis not on
> the jocks, but on the music. The Wibbage good guys were
> talking about their golf games, while WFIL went right after
> the teens and 18-34. The Wibbage survey in the stores was a
> plain sheet of white paper with a WIBG logo sporting a gas
> lamp. The WFIL survey was loud bold and contemporary.WFIL
> introduced Philadelphia to big money cash giveaways, WFIL
> was on every cab top, billboard, newspaper ad, and may have
> been the first radio station to use TV in Philadelphia to
> build cume.
>
> By February of 1968, it was almost all over for WIBG. WFIL
> changed morning people, and hired Dr. Don Rose from WQXI...a
> former colleague and good friend of Paul Drew. Drew, an
> understudy to Bill Drake, was programming CKLW...where
> WIBG's owner, Storer Broadcasting, had a radio station in
> Detroit, WJBK. Storer hired Drew to convert WIBG to modern
> sounding top 40, driven by the sound and formatics of CKLW.
>
> By this time, although sounding nothing like a Drake
> station, WFIL was calling itself ' Boss Radio" on the air.
> When Drew was announced for WIBG, WFIL ( with a little help
> from Rose) went to school on Drew, and what he might do at
> WIBG.
>
> WFIL immediately shortened it's playlist from 56 titles to
> 30, started playing more Gold, the survey became The Boss
> 30, the jocks became The Boss Jocks, the weekends became The
> Million Dollar Weekend, and claimed a lot of Drew's act
> before he arrived.
>
> In the middle of the April-May '68 book, Drew replaced the
> announcing staff, with the exception of Joe Niagara and Ray
> Gilmore, and hired an entirely new news department for the
> launch of WIBG 20/20 News.
>
> WFIL, mindful of the parade of on air contesting Drew did at
> CKLW, began it's own parade of the same contests...before
> they hit the air on the Big 99. In WFIL's Beat The Bomb
> contest, they deliberately ran the contest, and gave away
> embarrassingly low amounts of money. Having given away $5000
> at a pop previously in contests, I have an aircheck where
> WFIL's Dave Parks plays Beat The Bomb and awards $4.00 (
> four dollars). Making Drew look even sillier when WIBG ran
> it.
>
> When WIBG ran it's weekend-long All Time Top 300, they took
> out a full-page ad in the Bulletin afternoon newspaper
> listing the songs in order...and WFIL played those records
> in order, one song ahead of WIBG the entire weekend. WFIL's
> jocks were real personalities...WIBG's jocks were voices
> which were interchangable...and the average life expectancy
> of a jock at WIBG under Drew was 3 months. In October 1969,
> Storer sold WIBG and Drew and any semblence of that kind of
> radio were gone.
>
> WFIL was never Drake...and WIBG was never a KHJ or even a
> CKLW, just a failed clone. Also, Jay Cook did not become
> Program Director of WFIL until after all of this. The
> original PD was Jim Hilliard, followed by Lee Sherwood, then
> Cook.
>

 

[morningnews]

Kevin,

Man, what an insightful post! That's why I'm willing to go through the messages on these boards to occasionally find a piece of gold among the dirt.

Myself, I loved WFIL between 1972 and 74 when I lived in the area and they had one kick ass news department. I love the 1972 station profile of WFIL on reelradio.com.

Maybe next you can do a run down on WAMS Wilmington where we both worked at seperate times. What a swinging door that place was but there were some good people there! I remember one day they called us all in the pd's office and blew out five people and scared the crap out of the rest of us. At the time, Philadelphia radio got about 20 per cent of the Wilmington market so that was hard enough.

Paul Bottoms

 

[peppertree]

Thanks for the Phila. top 40 radio history.

I guess the next chapter started around 1972 or 1973 with WIFI 92.

> As both a huge KHJ fan and a Philly native, I want to jump
> in and share some insights into Drake/Boss Radio, and what
> happened in Philadelphia. Those who criticize Drake radio
> the most, do so based on having heard those who IMITATED
> Drake and KHJ...they were the people who didn't get it, not
> Drake, Ron Jacobs and crew. Drake Top 40 extended the life
> of the mass audience to Top 40, by making CHR more palatible
> to Rock radio's first generation...blending in Oldies, and
> making Top 40 cleaner and more sixties focused in
> presentation, rather than an extension of the fifties. Drake
> had real personalities on KHJ...the imitators hired voices
> to perform the formatics. KHJ immediately re-positioned KRLA
> as jive and corny, and KFWB as History...which they were in
> less than three years as a Top 40 station.
>
> The Philadelphia story is different.
>
> WIBG, despite having significant signal problems especially
> at night, was the long term venerable Top 40 into
> 1966...basically sounding unchanged since 1957, chatty, a 99
> song current playlist, jocks who were as old as the parents
> of Top 40's target audience, and overall pretty lethargic.
> WIBG had fended off a challenge in the format in 1961 by
> WIP, and following that, no one dared go near Wibbage. Until
> September 18, 1966, when WFIL converted to top 40.
>
> Just as KHJ had done, WFIL had younger fresher jocks, a fast
> paced presentation, and the psychological emphasis not on
> the jocks, but on the music. The Wibbage good guys were
> talking about their golf games, while WFIL went right after
> the teens and 18-34. The Wibbage survey in the stores was a
> plain sheet of white paper with a WIBG logo sporting a gas
> lamp. The WFIL survey was loud bold and contemporary.WFIL
> introduced Philadelphia to big money cash giveaways, WFIL
> was on every cab top, billboard, newspaper ad, and may have
> been the first radio station to use TV in Philadelphia to
> build cume.
>
> By February of 1968, it was almost all over for WIBG. WFIL
> changed morning people, and hired Dr. Don Rose from WQXI...a
> former colleague and good friend of Paul Drew. Drew, an
> understudy to Bill Drake, was programming CKLW...where
> WIBG's owner, Storer Broadcasting, had a radio station in
> Detroit, WJBK. Storer hired Drew to convert WIBG to modern
> sounding top 40, driven by the sound and formatics of CKLW.
>
> By this time, although sounding nothing like a Drake
> station, WFIL was calling itself ' Boss Radio" on the air.
> When Drew was announced for WIBG, WFIL ( with a little help
> from Rose) went to school on Drew, and what he might do at
> WIBG.
>
> WFIL immediately shortened it's playlist from 56 titles to
> 30, started playing more Gold, the survey became The Boss
> 30, the jocks became The Boss Jocks, the weekends became The
> Million Dollar Weekend, and claimed a lot of Drew's act
> before he arrived.
>
> In the middle of the April-May '68 book, Drew replaced the
> announcing staff, with the exception of Joe Niagara and Ray
> Gilmore, and hired an entirely new news department for the
> launch of WIBG 20/20 News.
>
> WFIL, mindful of the parade of on air contesting Drew did at
> CKLW, began it's own parade of the same contests...before
> they hit the air on the Big 99. In WFIL's Beat The Bomb
> contest, they deliberately ran the contest, and gave away
> embarrassingly low amounts of money. Having given away $5000
> at a pop previously in contests, I have an aircheck where
> WFIL's Dave Parks plays Beat The Bomb and awards $4.00 (
> four dollars). Making Drew look even sillier when WIBG ran
> it.
>
> When WIBG ran it's weekend-long All Time Top 300, they took
> out a full-page ad in the Bulletin afternoon newspaper
> listing the songs in order...and WFIL played those records
> in order, one song ahead of WIBG the entire weekend. WFIL's
> jocks were real personalities...WIBG's jocks were voices
> which were interchangable...and the average life expectancy
> of a jock at WIBG under Drew was 3 months. In October 1969,
> Storer sold WIBG and Drew and any semblence of that kind of
> radio were gone.
>
> WFIL was never Drake...and WIBG was never a KHJ or even a
> CKLW, just a failed clone. Also, Jay Cook did not become
> Program Director of WFIL until after all of this. The
> original PD was Jim Hilliard, followed by Lee Sherwood, then
> Cook.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[apco25]

Re: Next Chapter

> Thanks for the Phila. top 40 radio history.
>
> I guess the next chapter started around 1972 or 1973 with
> WIFI 92.
>

Your right, but not exactly. WIFI evolved into a top 40 hit oriented format from a automated assortment of pop/rock singles. Songs played that were big and songs that stiffed or bubbled under the top 100 billboard charts. Then in late 72, they became a live top 40 radio station. The jocks compared to 'FIL had a bit more energy and hypeness. Some even screamed bloody murder. They had a playlist of hit songs that were a few weeks added and played on the air before 'FIL added them on. Some that became big, and some that stiffed on or below the Top 40 billboard positions. There were a few former 'FIL jocks that worked during it's early days, but didn't stay on very long. Even the legendary Hy Lit did mornings at WIFI, but was fired after 2-3 weeks because of bad and outdated adlibs. At that time he was already yesterday's news with a chance of a comeback, but not to be heard from again in Philly radio for a very long time.

WIFI 92 became popular not because of the jocks and programming. (Most people in Philly couldn't remember most of the jocks that worked there.) Because the times a changing.... It was FM. It never really dethroned 'FIL itself, it was a contributing combination of things. WMMR was coming out of the underground from the psychedelic days, WIOQ (former WFIL- FM ) became a wide variety low keyed TOP 40/ AOR ish station, WCAU-FM was already playing oldies before WIFI went live, WYSP the 2nd heritage AOR was around the corner, and by 1975 with several more to follow....combination of the FM stations just nibbled away at 'FIL's audience. Finally dethroning it from the top spot as Philly's contemporary No. 1 station.

Legends like Dr. Don was already gone in SF., George Michael was lured away to WABC, and before then he was stating to fade. Long John Wade was on 'CAU FM, and 'FIL had to gear more toward adults especially in the daytime even though it stayed top 40.

When the Magic format came out along with a few more AC stations starting in '76, the days looked completely over for "FIL. By '78 it went top 40 AC, only to throw in the towel like many other legends by the early 80's. WIFI continued to stay Top 40 through the 70's... and it had it's share of struggle being the only top 40 on the FM dial with several AOR's, Disco, and a new breed of Soft Magic type AC stations on the FM to contend with. By 1981 WIFI met it's fate with a new rejuvenated Top 40, "Mike Joeseph's Hot Hits" CAU-FM. By '83 it was over, WIFI was gone as we once knew it. (Someone want to take chapter 3.) The real last chapter of Philly radio.

WIFI was pretty much remembered more by call letters and the music it played, but never carried household names like WIBBAGE, WFIL, WHAT, WIP, or even talk stations did. And many people (or the average listener) won't even remember that it was the first contemporary hit full time station on the FM dial. All it did was lure people away to hear their hit songs in stereo from the AM stations, which was a thrill like IPOD's, XM and Sirius is today.





> > As both a huge KHJ fan and a Philly native, I want to
> jump
> > in and share some insights into Drake/Boss Radio, and what
>
> > happened in Philadelphia. Those who criticize Drake radio
> > the most, do so based on having heard those who IMITATED
> > Drake and KHJ...they were the people who didn't get it,
> not
> > Drake, Ron Jacobs and crew. Drake Top 40 extended the life
>
> > of the mass audience to Top 40, by making CHR more
> palatible
> > to Rock radio's first generation...blending in Oldies, and
>
> > making Top 40 cleaner and more sixties focused in
> > presentation, rather than an extension of the fifties.
> Drake
> > had real personalities on KHJ...the imitators hired voices
>
> > to perform the formatics. KHJ immediately re-positioned
> KRLA
> > as jive and corny, and KFWB as History...which they were
> in
> > less than three years as a Top 40 station.
> >
> > The Philadelphia story is different.
> >
> > WIBG, despite having significant signal problems
> especially
> > at night, was the long term venerable Top 40 into
> > 1966...basically sounding unchanged since 1957, chatty, a
> 99
> > song current playlist, jocks who were as old as the
> parents
> > of Top 40's target audience, and overall pretty lethargic.
>
> > WIBG had fended off a challenge in the format in 1961 by
> > WIP, and following that, no one dared go near Wibbage.
> Until
> > September 18, 1966, when WFIL converted to top 40.
> >
> > Just as KHJ had done, WFIL had younger fresher jocks, a
> fast
> > paced presentation, and the psychological emphasis not on
> > the jocks, but on the music. The Wibbage good guys were
> > talking about their golf games, while WFIL went right
> after
> > the teens and 18-34. The Wibbage survey in the stores was
> a
> > plain sheet of white paper with a WIBG logo sporting a gas
>
> > lamp. The WFIL survey was loud bold and contemporary.WFIL
> > introduced Philadelphia to big money cash giveaways, WFIL
> > was on every cab top, billboard, newspaper ad, and may
> have
> > been the first radio station to use TV in Philadelphia to
> > build cume.
> >
> > By February of 1968, it was almost all over for WIBG. WFIL
>
> > changed morning people, and hired Dr. Don Rose from
> WQXI...a
> > former colleague and good friend of Paul Drew. Drew, an
> > understudy to Bill Drake, was programming CKLW...where
> > WIBG's owner, Storer Broadcasting, had a radio station in
> > Detroit, WJBK. Storer hired Drew to convert WIBG to modern
>
> > sounding top 40, driven by the sound and formatics of
> CKLW.
> >
> > By this time, although sounding nothing like a Drake
> > station, WFIL was calling itself ' Boss Radio" on the air.
>
> > When Drew was announced for WIBG, WFIL ( with a little
> help
> > from Rose) went to school on Drew, and what he might do at
>
> > WIBG.
> >
> > WFIL immediately shortened it's playlist from 56 titles to
>
> > 30, started playing more Gold, the survey became The Boss
> > 30, the jocks became The Boss Jocks, the weekends became
> The
> > Million Dollar Weekend, and claimed a lot of Drew's act
> > before he arrived.
> >
> > In the middle of the April-May '68 book, Drew replaced the
>
> > announcing staff, with the exception of Joe Niagara and
> Ray
> > Gilmore, and hired an entirely new news department for the
>
> > launch of WIBG 20/20 News.
> >
> > WFIL, mindful of the parade of on air contesting Drew did
> at
> > CKLW, began it's own parade of the same contests...before
> > they hit the air on the Big 99. In WFIL's Beat The Bomb
> > contest, they deliberately ran the contest, and gave away
> > embarrassingly low amounts of money. Having given away
> $5000
> > at a pop previously in contests, I have an aircheck where
> > WFIL's Dave Parks plays Beat The Bomb and awards $4.00 (
> > four dollars). Making Drew look even sillier when WIBG ran
>
> > it.
> >
> > When WIBG ran it's weekend-long All Time Top 300, they
> took
> > out a full-page ad in the Bulletin afternoon newspaper
> > listing the songs in order...and WFIL played those
> records
> > in order, one song ahead of WIBG the entire weekend.
> WFIL's
> > jocks were real personalities...WIBG's jocks were voices
> > which were interchangable...and the average life
> expectancy
> > of a jock at WIBG under Drew was 3 months. In October
> 1969,
> > Storer sold WIBG and Drew and any semblence of that kind
> of
> > radio were gone.
> >
> > WFIL was never Drake...and WIBG was never a KHJ or even a
> > CKLW, just a failed clone. Also, Jay Cook did not become
> > Program Director of WFIL until after all of this. The
> > original PD was Jim Hilliard, followed by Lee Sherwood,
> then
> > Cook.
> >
>

 

[chitchatjf]

Re: The Boston AM Top 40 war....

> The whole Boston 60s Top 40 battle was kind of weird.

What Boston Top 40 war?
in the mid 70s it seemed to be mostly RKO period.

We had two community AM stations. One was mostly talk The other tried to be a hybrid of Top 40 AND community news. In the fall of 76 they tossed in a few talk shows at night and i ended up going to FM.

>